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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Oct 2008 : 23:50:30
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You do a good job of extrapolating world events from godly squabbles, and I can't argue with any of what you presented in your scenario. It's certainly possible it could have happened that way.
But you said that you're looking for the more likely scenario. That, by definition, rules out the gods. Even a brief glance through the Grand History shows that direct godly interference is extremely rare. The vast majority of disasters have some sort of mortal cause. Also, godly interventions tend to be extremely visible; think Tyr's marching forth with an extra-planar army to conquer evil, or the huge lightshow at the sacking of Zhentil Keep.
While the destruction of the Citadel is certainly explosive enough to be a god's work, it is also extremely hidden. We're talking an extreme out-lay of godly power, and, like a modern corporation, they don't do that for no reason.
This is especially true for the lower-end deities like Assuran (who I agree would be a likely candidate). He doesn't have a huge amount of power to burn. If he was going to do something dramatic like that, he'd do it close to civilization, so that everyone could see and marvel and, more importantly, convert. Think Xvim in the Crynishad debacle: all his meddlings and outlays of power were for the purpose of sucking worshippers away from rivals and to himself; declaring his godly presence with authority, to paraphrase Bull Durham.
Simply put, if a god did it, we would know about it already. The god would have shouted it from on high in one fashion or another so that everyone could appreciate the effort. Without their god, the fallen priests were harmless, and the other gods knew it. If Assuran wanted to get rid of them, he would have sent priests of his own, or other agents. He wouldn't have done it himself in such a specacular fashion unless he had the PR campaign all set to cash in on the expenditure.
Finally, I also disagree that you have to know exactly what happened before your players get there. The great thing about something like the Citadel is that it's the RPG version of Schoedinger's Cat: it is all things until someone opens the box and decides. Sometimes I'll have a firm opinion (like you seem to have about how it must have been a god), but more often I'll have four or five different ideas all running in my head at the same time, and enough hints scattered to lead the players to any of them. Then I adapt to what they're doing, and the ideas they come up with on their own. Because often in their ignorance they'll create something a whole lot better than I can. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2008 : 06:54:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
I do believe not all the material made it. For example, though we see a number of Shou entries in the timeline, none were written for the Kozakura timeline (can't remember which OA book it was, but it had a Kozakuran timeline). And I think Wa had one too, not sure. But, in either case, the Kozakuran timeline never made it in. 
Actually, nearly all the K-T entries in the GHotR are taken from the Kozakuran timeline - none appeared in ANY product featuring Shou-Lung... and strangely enough, the biggest, baddest piece of real-estate on Toril NEVER had a module! Even T'u Lung did!
MOST of the eastern modules focused on the Japanesesque-Islands part of the setting.
You can find a good timeline HERE, but its still missing quite a few dates that appeared in text but never in any timeline (and I'm currently compiling ALL of those). I used to have a link to a nice pdf of that, but its dead now.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Oct 2008 06:55:33 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2008 : 11:33:09
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Hoondatha:
Direct godly intervention, i.e. them coming physically down to Toril and laying about with weapons or spells, is very rare. But my scenario doesn't posit Assuran/Hoar appearing in person, any more than Set personally went down there to corrupt the priests. Set appeared in dreams and waking trances, in manifestations and feelings, and it's precisely that way that I envision Assuran reaching the high priest. With a voice that intrudes into his dying consciousness.
After all, priests grant their followers spells daily. Even high level spells. And what happened in my scenario really isn't anything other than Assuran granting the old high priest of Gilgeam a powerful Quest spell and allowing him to pour all his remaining lifeforce, will and fury for vengeance into it.
According to Ed Greenwood, sincere calls for the gods, especially if the petitioner is prepared to give his life to accomplish some goal in line with the porfolio of the god, have a good chance of succeeding. See Delg's death in Spellfire for examples and note that published Realmslore is light in other examples due to TSR/WotC Ethics rules that shy away from polytheistic prayer and divine intervention.
And as for trumpeting his success, it's important to note that the destruction of the Citadel isn't public information as yet. Assuran could very well plan for the discovery of the site to play a part in his divine grab for power. After all, if those surviving priests of Gilgeam who remain after failing to resurrect the deity with the Staff of the Necromancer decide to seek refuge in the last bastion of Gilgeam's strength, it's an act of poetic justice if they find it already destroyed. And Assuran is the type to see the beauty of the first heralds of his victory being former priests of Gilgeam.
I know that I seem fixated on a divine cause, but I do have some supporting nuggets of data for that contention.
For one thing, Unther is quite literally a divine battlefield between three pantheons (one almost defunct). As such, while normal divine procedure might frown on direct confrontation, the same niceties don't quite apply in a warzone.
Second, the priests and followers of Gilgeam that perished in the conflagration became Heucuvas. These are undead monks or priests that have been struck by a divine curse for failing in their holy vows or duty. A natural catastrophe or an attack by a mortal enemy just doesn't do that, or at least it would be a stretch to imagine that the cause of their death was utterly unrelated to the curse that then afflicted them.
And third, the write-up of the Citadel in the P&P was already rife with divine politics. The proximate cause of any event befalling them would seem to be found there. |
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The Mysterious Events of the Citadel of Black Ash
