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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Oct 2008 : 19:55:05
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For what its worth, I once printed out sheets of Realmsian slang for players when starting a new campaign, and most of them ignored it. While using the slang may have made the game feel a bit more "Realmsian," most of them had no problem picking up on cultural traits, plot hooks, and history based on the Realms, but its hard to get people to essentially ad lib "their lines" and yet add in words that are unfamiliar to them.
Even as a DM, I usually only used such words when I made notes for a given NPC to throw it into a conversation somewhere. They got used, but if the PCs started dragging conversations into directions I wasn't prepared for, it was harder and harder to remember to throw such words into the NPCs speech.
Overall, I don't think this is a problem. Realmsian slang is one more tool to help make the world feel more real, but its one tool out of many, and sometimes that particular tool won't work for a given job. As a DM, I'd just try to make a note to use a few terms once in a while, but unless the players really, really get into trying to make such Realmsian words their own, even if they are interested in the setting they may never be interested in using them.
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2008 : 20:16:58
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| Words after all are odd and somewhat arbitrary. When you look at a word too long and it stops making sense: that's a correct perception. So of course it's going to be hard going learning what amounts to a slightly variant dialect -- like an American picking up Australian English -- from a list, rather than through gradual exposure in context. |
Edited by - Faraer on 05 Oct 2008 20:17:56 |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2008 : 21:25:23
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quote:
Originally posted by evildmguy
I don't have it in front of me but I have a history book (Medieval Underground) that lists a lot of street names that described what happened. Slut street, slit avenue, etc. at least in Paris during the Middle Ages. I don't remember all of them but it would not have been accepted by the nobles at the time.
From Ed's own words on Waterdeep, where it seems the nobles don't mind the word 
Yes, there is a "Slut Street" in Waterdeep. Yes, I put it there. And no, the word 'slut' had no sexual connotation to British and Canadian folks until the last 15 years or so (creeping American influence). It meant "a slovenly woman" or, in earlier times, "a working drudge." So this was where the poor serving wenches dwelt, shopped, and could be hired - not a Prostitutes' Row.
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2008 : 03:46:30
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Hmm, evildmguy, I think you're misunderstanding WHY some of Ed's invented curses exist. They exist because the f-word and c-word and other words you quite rightly say work very well as curses are no-nos for printing in Realms novels under various editorships (TSR's Code of Ethics and the current Hasbo "okay for kiddies" guidelines).
Words like "naed" and "haularake" work quite well to give a flavour of a fantasy world AND communicate that a character is displeased and saying so. Direct equivalents of, say, the f-word don't work as well because your mind prefers the familiar, more forceful, and nastier-sounding word you are used to.
Believe me, "tluin" and "stlarn" were not Ed's first choices of invented words. They were what EDITORS picked, out of lists of ten or a dozen invented words Ed provided for each "no-no" real word (the c-word, for example, is still a COMPLETE no-no) . . . and the editors chose sillier-sounding, "nicer"-sounding words than I would have.
If you want "harder" ones, jaunt on over to this year's Questions for Eddie thread and ask him. He might just oblige with "harder" invented curses.
BTW, recent editors have discouraged the swearing by phrases habit because it too often results in authors coming up with unintentionally amusing or ridiculous examples (e.g. "By the unsuckled and dangling paps of Ilmaera the Long-Nippled!"). Please note the preceding is NOT something I invented; it is something I shuddered and edited out of a passage of prose in a submitted novel where the author was NOT trying to be funny, but deadly serious. Sigh.
love,
THO |
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Paj
Seeker
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2008 : 15:09:17
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Hmm,
I wonder if I could get away with swearing at my School Pupils using Naed, and Tluin etc.
Because at times I would dearly like to tell them where they can shove their 'im better than you' attitude. Or, tell them to "shut the tluin up!"
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 18:25:24
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| Would it be possible to make a thread with an updated point form list of Realmsian curse words for easy reference? An odd request, I know, but for those interested, t'would be easier than searching through a mess of messages to find the words Stlarn and Farruk (to name a few), as well as their definitions. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 18:46:36
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| I think that's included in Kyrene's ever-increasing list. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 00:53:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Would it be possible to make a thread with an updated point form list of Realmsian curse words for easy reference? An odd request, I know, but for those interested, t'would be easier than searching through a mess of messages to find the words Stlarn and Farruk (to name a few), as well as their definitions.
As Dennis notes, Kyrene's listing provides some work on this.
A complete compilation would be possible, I suppose. But I certainly don't have the time to dedicate to it at the moment.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 01:17:39
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Shall I add a few of the ones I occasionally use from the drow tongue? They are quite nasty-sounding without being too harsh, and get one's point across, rather well, IMHO.
Vith/vith'rell: These replace and translate to f*** and f***er, respectively. Can be used in any of the same contexts as the word(s) they replace. The second one can have otehr words put in front of it to denote a deviant person (ie- haszak-vith'rell would be "illithid-f***er")
vith'ir/vith dos: these are the equivelant of "f*** you"
elg'caress: word used against females- describes a female dog (N'uff said)
iblith: sh**, basically. or one could add a prefix to make it more specific or crude (ie- gol-iblith is "goblin-sh**")
xa'huu: garbage
xatoast/xatoasten: bastard/bastards
ssindossa: whore, prostitute
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The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 21:24:54
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| my npcs don't swear, sounds unreal like talking in fights |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 07:19:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Never? Come on, nearly everyone IRL swears on occasion, even if it's just from stubbing a toe. How much MORE so when they miss the shot that might have killed the rampaging dragon?!!! NOT swearing under such conditions seems less real to me. I know I sure would!
Eh. I actually don't care for usual and/or common swearing/cursing in real-life terms. And I never use the words myself, as I've long considered them an abuse of the wonderful intricacies of the English language. It's just so much more fitting for me to find other more creative ways of verbally expressing myself -- using those intricacies I mentioned above -- during such circumstances that would otherwise warrant cursing.
I tend to role-play the majority of my characters in much the same way. Though, I do leave this mostly up to the personality of the individual character. If he's a "rough and tumble" sort of fellow, then swearing -- in game terms -- is largely acceptable. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 23 Jan 2011 07:20:14 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 07:38:09
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Well, I've always been one to believe that sometimes you just HAVE to "abuse the intricacies of the language" as you put it. Sure, one can be more creative with the language when one has just had their foot slammed in a car door (or his sword just slipped and stabbed his own foot in a fight), but there is nothing quite so satisfying as a good, heart-felt "SH**!!" (or insert word of your choice) under such circumstances. Speaking from experience, of course.
I guess it's really a matter of preference, but I've always found it to be more of a reflex-action for most people. Sort of like the knee-jerk reaction to a doctor testing reflexes with the little hammer. (Though I've never quite understood the point of that particular test- doesn't the very fact that one made it to the Dr's office in the first place indicate that, yes, one DOES have working reflexes?!) And even my devout Christian, church-going grandmother has been known to swear like a sailor when severely angered!!!   (Trust me, that was ONE experience you'd have to see to appreciate properly. Scary!!!  ) Just sayin'....
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The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 07:50:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
...but I've always found it to be more of a reflex-action for most people. Sort of like the knee-jerk reaction to a doctor testing reflexes with the little hammer.
Indeed.
And it's not an abuse of the English language. It is, simply, a plebeian verbalization of feelings. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 08:08:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Plebian? Hmm, I'll bet Caesar (pick one) probably swore rather vehemently on occasion!
I am referring to "common people."
But you're right. Romans curse, and more colorfully than any English speaker. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 08:21:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Nobility has doen it for thousands of years, too.
Often out of earshot. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 08:34:19
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| I don't mind people cursing, but there are people who annoy me to the extreme because they do it in almost every sentence they utter. (I can name two atm.) 'Tis one of the reasons I found that ubiquitous cursing in ELMINSTER MUST DIE so irritating. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 09:02:31
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| I know a friend (though not a very close one) who used to do that, too. But I, as nicely as I could manage that time, advised her to stop it for reasons I sugar-coated so as not to sound mean or demanding. She still says it, but not as annoyingly often as before. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36997 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 14:38:05
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I have a friend that has, at various times, had words or phrases he used way too much. It used to be that he used the word "Basically" once or twice every sentence! I broke him of that habit by repeating it every time he said it -- which made him acutely aware of how oft he was using it. Me repeating it got very annoying for him, which encouraged him to stop using it so much.
As for cursing, I've long felt that there are situations where it's appropriate. You drop an anvil on your toe, saying "Oh, bother" just isn't going to do it. There is actually scientific evidence that indicates cursing helps alleviate the pain.
On the flipside, cursing can be taken way too far... Once upon a time, I had to listen to a recording of a Pantera concert -- one of my coworkers was blasting it. It took me maybe three songs to become convinced that the only reason the lead singer was talking between songs was because he was trying to set a record for the most gratuitous use of the word "Belgium" in a Serious Screenplay () the f-bomb. It wasn't just gratuitous, it was excessive to the point of being a parody of itself.
I myself grew up in a household where the profanity flowed freely, so I've got a tendency to reach quite readily for the expletives. I've found I can control that with alternatives, so now I've a notable tendency to say "Gods curse it!" instead of the more common version referring to the Man Upstairs. Additionally, I had a coworker who was just religious enough to be bothered by people casually invoking the Man Upstairs. Out of respect for him and a desire to not cause issues at work, I found an alternative, inspired by one of the few funny bits in Mostly Harmless (I ignore that book when reading the other four books of the trilogy). So now I am frequently heard to say things like "Mother of Bob!" or "Oh, for Bob's sake!"
Of late, I've also adopted a particular British-ism beginning with "bug", but I've been hesitant to use it too much, because I've heard conflicting things on exactly how offensive it is to someone from across the pond. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 02:09:01
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"As for cursing, I've long felt that there are situations where it's appropriate. You drop an anvil on your toe, saying "Oh, bother" just isn't going to do it. There is actually scientific evidence that indicates cursing helps alleviate the pain."
Lol, I've seen those studies, actually- they did an episode of Mythbusters on it, and it's true! Personally, I try NOT to use it unless there's really just no appropriate alternative- I've been known to use "frak it" or "Sweet Goddess," instead of the more common terms used, or "bloody Hells", as Brits do, simply because it's not considered as offensive here. Of course, the goddess thing sometimes earns me odd looks, but it doesn't bother me much, as it's simply more natural for me, considering my theological leanings (read- being Wiccan). I know cursing gets a lot of flack from some more conservative folks, but to me, it's just part of the language itself, not something outside of it that should be looked down on. If more people realized how much of our language came from common expletives or descriptions of less "polite" concepts or actions, they might not be so offended by it. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 02:17:39
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| As one TV host here in the Phil said, "Cursing makes a language more colorful." |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 24 Jan 2011 02:18:00 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 02:57:24
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| My opinion on swearing goes back to one of my all time favorite movies, Inherit the Wind, and I'm paraphrasing here, "I just think that language is so damn limited that we should use every damn word we have to get the damn point accross." |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Crossed Arrows
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 03:14:34
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I my line of work (Military) swearing is very commonplace, But a guy I work with once stated:
"If we could just get rid of the word F#*, it would cut so much time out of our conversations and day, we could all go home 2 hours earlier each day"
As for the original intent of this thread (I think I'm using that right), I usually find movies that relate to the time and setting of D&D. for example from A Knights Tale:
Wat: All right, I'm about this fonging close mate! I swear to God, Quaisimodo! I oughta...
or
Wat: Uh, betray us, and I will fong you, until your insides are out, your outsides are in, your entrails will become your extrails I will w-rip... all the p... ung. Pain, lots of pain.
Therefore I believe "fong" is a suitable curse word. |
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evildmguy
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 15:29:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As for cursing, I've long felt that there are situations where it's appropriate. You drop an anvil on your toe, saying "Oh, bother" just isn't going to do it. There is actually scientific evidence that indicates cursing helps alleviate the pain.
I myself grew up in a household where the profanity flowed freely, so I've got a tendency to reach quite readily for the expletives. I've found I can control that with alternatives, so now I've a notable tendency to say "Gods curse it!" instead of the more common version referring to the Man Upstairs. Additionally, I had a coworker who was just religious enough to be bothered by people casually invoking the Man Upstairs. Out of respect for him and a desire to not cause issues at work, I found an alternative, inspired by one of the few funny bits in Mostly Harmless (I ignore that book when reading the other four books of the trilogy). So now I am frequently heard to say things like "Mother of Bob!" or "Oh, for Bob's sake!"
In the first, I had a ninety pound bag of shingles dropped on my hand. I don't tend to curse but this was a moment for it. And then I saw the two and four year old nearby. Not wanting to teach them a bad word, I did so "oh, darn" instead of something else and it wasn't the same.
In the second, I still use "Oh my Bob" or the like at times! In fact, I adopted that very soon after I read that book!
I also use frak or other made up words to curse, since I don't use curse words most of the time. It wasn't about offending but a habit I wanted so I wouldn't curse in front of my nieces and nephews. Now, it is my habit, and I do have to think about it to curse, except in very rare situations.
I think the problem for myself is not knowing other languages. Perhaps English has too much Germanic influence, but I do know a bit of Spanish, and curse words need to flow or be harsh. "stlarn" as a curse word does neither for me, which is why I didn't like it and why I posted on here in the first place. "hrast" might work if the h is silent or it doesn't flow or me. In the end, I came away disappointed that the canon words don't work for me or my group.
I will have to look elsewhere for way to immerse the players into the world. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36997 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 18:21:46
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quote:
Originally posted by evildmguy
[brI think the problem for myself is not knowing other languages. Perhaps English has too much Germanic influence, but I do know a bit of Spanish, and curse words need to flow or be harsh. "stlarn" as a curse word does neither for me, which is why I didn't like it and why I posted on here in the first place. "hrast" might work if the h is silent or it doesn't flow or me. In the end, I came away disappointed that the canon words don't work for me or my group.
Yeah, stlarn, hrast, and tluin all fail to flow for me, and thus don't work as profanity. At least, IMO. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Realmsian cursing and other language
