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Ranak
Learned Scribe
USA
190 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 07:02:18
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I just noticed that Wizard is publishing "A story set in the Forgotten Realms" by RA Salvatore and son called "The Stowaway."
This novel is aimed 10-12 year olds, features Drizzt, and is just about the oddest thing I have ever seen to come out of Wizards.
http://ww2.wizards.com/books/Wizards/Products/?doc=239607200
Geno Salvatore? Let's hope Geno can write.
No Forgotten Realms logo, I guess they are keeping the kids books separate.
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Edited by - Ranak on 23 Aug 2008 07:03:11
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 09:41:43
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| What's so odd about it, it could work quite well? I think there was a series for younger readers in Dragonlance years ago. |
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Kairin
Acolyte
40 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 10:21:22
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| What's wrong with the ordinary Drizzt books for that age group? When I was 12 I read Lord of the Rings. And when I was eleven I read Jean M Auel's Clan of the Cavebear. Hehe. I hope that didn't damage me for life. |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 14:36:50
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| The book isn't a Drizzt for kids. Gino wrote it along with his father and Drizzt merely makes a cameo. The hero is actually a young boy. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 16:07:46
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quote:
The book isn't a Drizzt for kids. Gino wrote it along with his father and Drizzt merely makes a cameo. The hero is actually a young boy.
You beat me to it. It's not about Drizzt, he just makes an appearance. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 19:38:26
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Correct, and it's actually Geno (NOT "Gino") Salvatore.
love,
THO |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 03:21:15
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Thank ye, lovely lady!
I was in various airports today writing the posts and must have been effected by the malaise of the travel industry and too many happy meals! That, and I forgot that he spells it differently...  |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 04:53:45
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| Interesting, the sample's all in first person. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 00:26:47
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| I think this is great and am looking forward to seeing young Salvatore follow his father's legacy. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 19:15:12
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| It's nice to know that nepotism plays no part in WotC's author selection process. I started reading the online sample and found myself underwhelmed. It's pretty awful really. I would explain further but that would go into spoiler territory. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Ranak
Learned Scribe
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 08:19:28
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That is exactly what I meant by oddest thing...
The idea of a realms book for kids isn't all that unusual, but having the author's kids start writing books just seems weird.
Paul Kemp I think wrote a long blog in his livejournal on how publishing is not a meritocracy... this is further proof.
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
It's nice to know that nepotism plays no part in WotC's author selection process. I started reading the online sample and found myself underwhelmed. It's pretty awful really. I would explain further but that would go into spoiler territory.
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 10:38:37
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I read the sample chapter and cant say it impressed me that much. In fact I think you need to explain a lot to any 10-12 year old when he reads this and problems / lower quality will result if this isnt done.
1. There are a lot of references that arent explained, like "Baldurs Gate". If someone doesnt know what to expect from a name like that he will have a much lessened experience while reading it.
2. Having a young child read about demons that look like "us" isnt going to be that great about getting him a calm night of sleep for those children with a "softer soul", so again you have to have an adult to explain things to the child.
3. In my personal opinion children should learn to crawl, then walk, then riding a bicycle (or horse or boat if applicable), then get a drivers license when they are of age and then - maybe - learn to fly a fighter plane. What do I mean with this? Well IMO our children should learn the stories and tales of our cultures FIRST as a basis for references in later life. Its kinda an addition to number 1. above, but from the "responsibility to our culture" point of view. Its bad enough to have stuff like "Disneys Hercules" on TV and give children the impression that Hercules was a joke instead of the true hero he was, it shouldnt continue with our stories being replaced by "fiction". I know this is a radical point of view, but if you extrapolate this trend into the future all of our past will be forgotten and simply be "stuff in museums".
4. I also think its not that well written. Almost every sentence on pg. 12 starts with "I" and even taking into account that its an "action scene" there should be different ways to do it. |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 10:43:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Ranak
That is exactly what I meant by oddest thing...
The idea of a realms book for kids isn't all that unusual, but having the author's kids start writing books just seems weird.
Paul Kemp I think wrote a long blog in his livejournal on how publishing is not a meritocracy... this is further proof.
I read part of the online chapter, after a few paragraphs I didn't feel like I wanted to continue, which is akin to browsing a book in the shops. My impression was that if I was a publisher I wouldn't have published this manuscript. It's just not that good. I don't know how old Geno Salvatore is but the manuscript isn't a bad effort for a young writer. However, it's clear he needs to improve or at least do something to distinguish his work. This book has only been published because of his father in my opinion.
If we look at Young Adult fiction (Although when I was that age I was called a teenager) we see a common formula.
1. Take one orphan.
2. Do something mean to said orphan, give him or her some emotional loss.
3. Place orphan in new place or send them on a quest.
4. Give orphan a close friend.
5. At some stage let the orphan discover something about him or herself that makes them unique.
6. Orphan kicks bad guy's butt.
7. For sequel, repeat from step 2.
This is the basic gist of Eragon, Harry Potter, The Golden Compass and The Black Magician [1]. Now granted all of those books have distinguishing features that appeal. I enjoy the style that The Black Magician is written in. My opinion is that it experienced a very good editing process. In The Golden Compass, Lyra discovers that she isn't an orphan after all, which is a neat twist. Eragon wasn't that original but I enjoyed reading it and it's not a bad effort for someone who was 15 at the time. And when you read Eldest you can see how Christopher Paolini (sp?) has matured as an author. I've no doubt that Geno Salvatore will mature as an author given time but I think this book will hinder him more than help him.
1. Technically not Young Adult Fiction.
SPOILERS
I didn't bother to read the blurb I just went straight to the online sample.
I read the start, which I quote below, then decided the book wasn't for me and it was a poor book.
Begin quotation:
"I do not know what name my mother gave me.
I do not know, because every person who knew my name died -- killed by a dark creature, a demon called Asbeel -- mere days after I first entered the world.
Until I met Perrault, I was an orphan. And ten days after my twelfth birthday, I was alone once again."
End quotation.
So here we find out that the main character thinks that everyone who knew his real name was killed within days of his birth. We then get the strange sentence "Until I met Perrault, I was an orphan." Either Perrault is his father, assuming Perrault is male, since we know his mother is dead and up until that point the main character thought he was an orphan or he remains an orphan. However the next sentence ends with the words "I was alone once again" which suggests the authors do not know the meaning of the word 'orphan.'
Orphan = a child who has lost both parents through death, or, less commonly, one parent.
In this book the main character states he has lost his mother. From the section that I read there is no mention of his father. Therefore it doesn't matter whom he subsequently meets he is still an orphan and will remain so unless one or both of his parents are resurrected.
The first part of the sentence "Until I met Perrault, I was an orphan." is strange as well. From what we know the main character lost everyone mere days after his birth: "every person who knew my name died...mere days after I first entered the world."
So we have a newborn baby who needs milk, warmth and contact. Amazingly, we're then told that this is the case until the main character meets Perault. How did the child survive? From what we know of the demon Asbeel it seems an unlikely caregiver.
Did Perrault discover the newborn baby and take it in? That could be possible but we are told that the main character met Perrault, which suggests locomotion on the behalf of the main character.
By this point I felt that as a reader I had been given too much information that didn't make sense and although I read a bit further these inconsistencies were not addressed. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 15:51:03
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| Glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks this is pretty atrocious. Half the writer-wannabes I've seen on the Internet write much better than this, but sadly for them, they aren't the children of famous authors. Looks like we have another Christopher Paolini on hand, hooray! |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 16:46:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
Looks like we have another Christopher Paolini on hand, hooray!
Having an author for a parent is nice but having publishers for parents is even better. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 17:13:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Eragon wasn't that original but I enjoyed reading it and it's not a bad effort for someone who was 15 at the time.
I would like to point out that Paolini started writing the book when he was 15. IIRC, it wasn't finished (and published) until four years later. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 26 Aug 2008 17:14:04 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 17:46:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I would like to point out that Paolini started writing the book when he was 15. IIRC, it wasn't finished (and published) until four years later.
Thanks for the clarification.  I recalled that 15 featured somewhere. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 17:46:54
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| Yeah, the "he was only fifteen!" excuse has been worn out a long time ago. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 18:09:47
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People, pull back a bit. Geno's working with his dad on a project most likely because he really wants to do it. And RAS, like any other parent, will help that project out any way possible.
And if you're going to start criticizing young-adult books with your adult eyes, remember that this wasn't written for those of us that have been out in the cold hard world.
Me, I still enjoy picking up an old Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew novel. I remember reading the Fudge books and such when younger, not because the story had incredible depth but because they were a fun story.
Remember, too. Our friends the authors and designers read these boards. Most of them can handle the criticism of us because they realize it's constructive and not meant to be personal. Before you start posting your opinions on the work, think to yourself how you would have reacted as a young lad or lass to a group of adults picking apart your art with the seriousness of the New York Times.
I applaud young Geno's work and hope it leads to a long and fruitful career! And kudos to RAS for helping nurture the hopes of his son. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 18:17:52
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Fantasy has always played to those of us unwilling to let go of the fun of magic - that purply tingly stuff that goes through us and turns into slathering fans of the most bizarre stories we can cook up (it also has the ability to use its tendrils to lighten our wallets, but I digress...). And who's more ready to accept the benefits of magic than kids!?
I'm surprised it took FR this long to make a more "youth-friendly" series! |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 19:35:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
And if you're going to start criticizing young-adult books with your adult eyes, remember that this wasn't written for those of us that have been out in the cold hard world.
The attitude that being written for young adults is an excuse for really bad writing is pretty patronizing to younger readers. Genuinely good YA fiction can be well-crafted and appealing to older readers while also delighting its age-bracket audience. Terry Pratchett's A Hat Full of Sky, Roald Dahl's children's books, Philip Pullman's His Dark Material series, Garth Nix's The Old Kingdom and The Keys to the Kingdom series, among others. And, sorry, some younger readers do notice horrible writing and cliches, you know. I've seen twelve-year-olds dismiss Eragon for the witless twaddle it is, and I'm sort of willing to say that Paolini writes better than Geno Salvatore if the sample chapter is anything to go by (although Geno Salvatore seems a lot less long-winded, which is surely a blessing: it's much less painful to trudge through some three hundred pages of drivel than five hundred).
Besides, nobody is insisting that this book should be more realistic or cynical or whatever. All we're saying is that it's badly written. I wouldn't bet good money on this ever being published if it didn't have RAS' name on it.
quote:
Before you start posting your opinions on the work, think to yourself how you would have reacted as a young lad or lass to a group of adults picking apart your art with the seriousness of the New York Times.
Come again? The guy's graduated from a university. He's not exactly a child, here, and he doesn't even have that "but he wrote it at fifteen!" defense going. |
Edited by - Karzak on 26 Aug 2008 19:41:35 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 19:41:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
And if you're going to start criticizing young-adult books with your adult eyes, remember that this wasn't written for those of us that have been out in the cold hard world.
My main problem with the sample I read is that the use of English is poor. I assume they still teach that subject in schools.
I also compared this sample chapter to other books in the same market.
Granted if the lad had submitted the writing as his own project, or a short story to the forums, then I'm sure all of us would have treated it differently. However, what we are discussing and criticising [1] is is a book for sale. As potential consumers we have a right to discuss what our opinions are about that.
There are many readers of the so-called Young Adult fiction market who are much older than the target audience. For example, the later books in the Harry Potter series had adult versions as well as a version for children.
1. By criticising I mean offering a critique or an opinion. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 19:52:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
Come again? The guy's graduated from a university. He's not exactly a child, here, and he doesn't even have that "but he wrote it at fifteen!" defense going.
 Really! That's surprising.
quote:
Before you start posting your opinions on the work, think to yourself how you would have reacted as a young lad or lass to a group of adults picking apart your art with the seriousness of the New York Times.
If you write in the company of "the author of more than a dozen New York Times best sellers" then you had best expect that sort of criticism. Also criticism is part of the job of being an author. In my own professional career I encounter criticism. Invariably, it actually helps me. The real world of publishing is no place for delicate flowers. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 21:29:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
Come again? The guy's graduated from a university. He's not exactly a child, here, and he doesn't even have that "but he wrote it at fifteen!" defense going.
Oops... That's my bad. I was working off some sources that said he was much younger.
(I really gotta check those damn sources. Not the first time I've caught them lying to me. Damn comic-book-store employees). |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Ranak
Learned Scribe
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 23:08:56
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This is my point exactly.
The best new Realms talent has come from the open talent searches, when Wizards wills itself to look outside of the company. Brian James is an excellent example.
It saddens me when I see them continually pick up new writers that are already "in" with the company somehow - but I suppose that is how the game of publishing is played. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 23:19:13
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Of course, it could've been blackmail.
RAS: "I just don't see how Drizzt could fit in 4E."
Wasbro (scared of losing their #1 draw): "You don't? How could we make it so he fits?"
RAS: "Well, y'know, Geno's got this book idea..."
(I personally don't think RAS would do anything of the sort. I'm a huge fan of his, both of Drizzt and his other works ) |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 02:45:53
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quote:
For example, the later books in the Harry Potter series had adult versions as well as a version for children.
I feel it's worth point out that the only different between the two versions was the artwork. I mean, as an adult, would you rather be seen reading a thick book with a cartoony depiction of a treasure trap on the front, or an artist's realistic rendering of a snake-emblazoned locket on it instead?
That, however, is outside the scope of the discussion. I think it's a safe bet that Geno is a pretty young kid. Like... somewhere around the target audience's age, wherein the coolest of heroes are the angsty, prepubescent ones who are orphans and around the same age as the reader/watcher/writer.
I think that all kids would make Mary Sues, given the chance. Of course, everyone else probably would, as well. |
Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 03:29:28
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You know, I've kidded around about the authors and designers 'holding themselves above the unwashed fans', but this just screams medieval nobility and 'divine right' to me.
If Tolkien's son is any indication, writing talent is NOT hereditary.
Then again, this was probably part of the deal they were forced to give him to keep him from just walking away from them all together. He's outgrown D&D, FR, and WotC, and its really time he move on (for his own good).
As far as Hasbro making products that appeal to children.. thats a given.
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Is it wrong that I feel like saying "Silly Rabbit..."
Before the title?
No...
I thought the same thing. 
We do tend to be on the same page quite a bit. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 04:35:21
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quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
That, however, is outside the scope of the discussion. I think it's a safe bet that Geno is a pretty young kid. Like... somewhere around the target audience's age, wherein the coolest of heroes are the angsty, prepubescent ones who are orphans and around the same age as the reader/watcher/writer.
I thought so too, until I saw this:
Geno at GenCon |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Drizzt for kids?
