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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 12:15:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If Tolkien's son is any indication, writing talent is NOT hereditary.
I don't think Christopher Tolkien would describe himself as an author, he's more of a commentator. The majority of books with his name on it are about his father's writings. What he has done is go through his father's papers and uncovered some interesting information, for example more stem words for Quenya and more detail on the Elvish languages, which is interesting if you are as boring as I am and like constructing languages.
That said, it's clearly arguable if we need 12 books about his father's papers.
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Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 27 Aug 2008 12:23:08 |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 12:38:34
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Another relevant example: Brian Herbert. Some of the later Dune books by Frank Herbert were going steadily downhill, but even then by comparison the ones his son co-wrote with whatshisname are still excrement. I believe most fans like to pretend they don't exist. Then there's, what, Anne McCaffrey's son and the worsening Pern books?
quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
That, however, is outside the scope of the discussion. I think it's a safe bet that Geno is a pretty young kid. Like... somewhere around the target audience's age, wherein the coolest of heroes are the angsty, prepubescent ones who are orphans and around the same age as the reader/watcher/writer.
Unless he managed to earn a bachelor's at twelve, no: the link says in clear English that he's just graduated from some university in Massachusetts. Even then, a twelve-year-old that smart would probably be capable of producing better prose than this. |
Edited by - Karzak on 27 Aug 2008 12:48:18 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 12:47:21
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Another example, which contrasts to the discussed trend, could be Alexandre Dumas fils. Alexandre Dumas pere is still well known as a novelist. Dumas fils wrote mostly plays and enjoyed reasonable success and reputation I think.
I think in the end, regardless of your parentage, you become yourself. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 12:57:36
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| Oh, if you want to dig that far back, there's Mary Wollstonecraft and Godwin and Mary Shelley, all of which were writers of repute and influence. But, you know, this was rather some time ago, and writers of the nineteenth to early twentieth century tended to belong to intellectual circles that aren't quite like the commercialized industry of today. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 13:14:58
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I don't mind digging that far back.  The writing of the past seems better than today anyway, in my opinion. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 18:46:05
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quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
That, however, is outside the scope of the discussion. I think it's a safe bet that Geno is a pretty young kid.
Even if it's an incontrovertable fact that he's not? Although I suppose it depends on what you think a "young kid" is. In any case, we aren't talking about a 10 year old, here. Geno is obviously an adult.
Regarding the "orphan" thing--I have to admit I don't think that's a big deal. It's true that most common definition is a child who's lost both natural parents. However, I've seen definitions that just say "bereft of parents"--if the main character lost a person he saw as a parent, is it a big deal that he calls himself an "orphan again?" |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 27 Aug 2008 18:51:15 |
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Seainna Mistwalker
Acolyte
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 04:35:03
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quote:
If we look at Young Adult fiction (Although when I was that age I was called a teenager) we see a common formula.
1. Take one orphan.
2. Do something mean to said orphan, give him or her some emotional loss.
3. Place orphan in new place or send them on a quest.
4. Give orphan a close friend.
5. At some stage let the orphan discover something about him or herself that makes them unique.
6. Orphan kicks bad guy's butt.
7. For sequel, repeat from step 2.
This is the basic gist of Eragon, Harry Potter, The Golden Compass and The Black Magician [1]. Now granted all of those books have distinguishing features that appeal. I enjoy the style that The Black Magician is written in. My opinion is that it experienced a very good editing process. In The Golden Compass, Lyra discovers that she isn't an orphan after all, which is a neat twist. Eragon wasn't that original but I enjoyed reading it and it's not a bad effort for someone who was 15 at the time. And when you read Eldest you can see how Christopher Paolini (sp?) has matured as an author. I've no doubt that Geno Salvatore will mature as an author given time but I think this book will hinder him more than help him.
Honestly, I'd rather see writers attempting to break the mold...than allow said written art style to stagnate within a repetitive formula of "what has worked". This is an approach that appeases a commercial industry, and stunts the growth of new writing approached, styles and expressions. Just because "what has been" worked, doesn't mean that it should be the future of fiction geared for the young adult. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 09:58:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Regarding the "orphan" thing--I have to admit I don't think that's a big deal. It's true that most common definition is a child who's lost both natural parents. However, I've seen definitions that just say "bereft of parents"--if the main character lost a person he saw as a parent, is it a big deal that he calls himself an "orphan again?"
It's not that I really care either. I just regard the person who employs such a meaning as rather dull-witted. I think in everyday conversation we naturally use words wrongly or adjust the meaning, which within the context of a conversation continues to convey the meaning that the speaker intended. Similarly with online forums, language use varies but rarely leads to misunderstandings since correspondents on a thread can ask, or offer, clarification. Some of the first Dutch words I learnt when I lived in the Netherlands were "Wat zagt je?" so we ask for clarification all the time.
However, with books I think authors should strive to use English (or whatever language they are writing in) correctly. Once something is in print clarification can rarely be given. Certainly for novels.
In my opinion, published authors have a responsibility to use their language correctly. And it seems only fair since many authors advise aspiring writers to do just that.
Maybe after so many years of George W Bush it's become fashionable to 'misutilize' words?  |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Jimbobx
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
109 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 11:36:55
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I read the sample chapter through and I can't say it was bad. It was just not that good. I have read many FR short stories/excerpts by unpublished writers of equal if not better quality. Some of them on this site. Kiaransalyn, Brynweir & Ozzalum - to give them their due.
quote:
The attitude that being written for young adults is an excuse for really bad writing is pretty patronizing to younger readers. Genuinely good YA fiction can be well-crafted and appealing to older readers while also delighting its age-bracket audience.
Absolutely. Quality YA authors layer their writing so that it can be appreciated on both levels. Pullman being an excellent example. Decent YA fiction grows with the reader.
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Rilyetan's Retreat
Jimbob's Waterdeep Journal
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Edited by - Jimbobx on 28 Aug 2008 11:48:22 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 14:57:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
In my opinion, published authors have a responsibility to use their language correctly. And it seems only fair since many authors advise aspiring writers to do just that.
Point taken. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 21:21:33
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Don't misunderestimate the power of the President to embetter your usation of English.
I will continue to blame nepotism for my lack of success right up until I get published. Then the publishing industry will clearly represent the highest form of meritocracy.
But seriously, if WotC thinks they can make money from the younger Salvatore's work, I can't fault them too much. I assume name recognition is a big factor in a book's success or failure these days.
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 15:58:07
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| I will buy it... |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 20:18:18
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Yeah the more I think about it , the more I feel it is wrong for me to even try to fairly judge this book. Just the other day I read a bit from the book my daughter is currently reading just to see what it was all about. Judging by sales and what kids her age read, it is a tremendously sucessful and well written book/series, but to me...um not so much!
The only fair conclusion I can make is that I am(as are most all of the posters here) far too sophisticated as readers to fairly judge a novel that is obviously not targeted for ours palettes!
I will most likely not read it, but I can foresee adding it to a future book order and gifting it to my daughter and let her judge for herself. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2008 : 22:11:04
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| Would I be correct in guessing that the book your daughter's reading is Stephenie Meyer's Twilight? |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 00:49:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
Would I be correct in guessing that the book your daughter's reading is Stephenie Meyer's Twilight?
LOL, nope that isn't it, I can't even remember the title at the moment, but I do remeber it is a best seller and had one of those neato gold foil medals on the cover |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 01:19:30
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
Would I be correct in guessing that the book your daughter's reading is Stephenie Meyer's Twilight?
LOL, nope that isn't it, I can't even remember the title at the moment, but I do remeber it is a best seller and had one of those neato gold foil medals on the cover
Star Wars Sage Edition? 
Actually, the Saga Edition is pretty nice for the Star Wars game. And they finally released Knights of the Old Republic setting material...  |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 01:28:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
Would I be correct in guessing that the book your daughter's reading is Stephenie Meyer's Twilight?
LOL, nope that isn't it, I can't even remember the title at the moment, but I do remeber it is a best seller and had one of those neato gold foil medals on the cover
Star Wars Sage Edition?
Actually, the Saga Edition is pretty nice for the Star Wars game. And they finally released Knights of the Old Republic setting material...
More likely he is referring to the Newberry Award, which is a prestigious award for children's books.
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 01:33:18
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
More likely he is referring to the Newberry Award, which is a prestigious award for children's books.
I thought that might be, but I couldn't pass up the reference since I read a review today that talked so much about the gold foil cover.
By the way, if I pop over to the question board, how much can you reveal about the moonblades after the spellplague without hitting the NDA? |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 01:36:18
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Yes, Geno Salvatore does have an advantage starting out, a fact that seems to irritate some of the denizens of Candlekeep. But I think the disadvantages of having a famous father will soon balance the initial boost. And ultimately, he will succeed or fail on his own merits.
As for me, I wish him all the best. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 01:40:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
By the way, if I pop over to the question board, how much can you reveal about the moonblades after the spellplague without hitting the NDA?
Not a damn thing, I'm afraid, not because of the NDA wall, but because I have no idea what happens to the moonblades after the spellplague. I haven't read the FRCS book yet, but I doubt this issue has been addressed.
If I were called upon to speculate--and what the heck, let's go for it--I'd say that all the moonblades, active and dormant, disappeared along with Evermeet.
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 01:42:27
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
By the way, if I pop over to the question board, how much can you reveal about the moonblades after the spellplague without hitting the NDA?
Not a damn thing, I'm afraid, not because of the NDA wall, but because I have no idea what happens to the moonblades after the spellplague. I haven't read the FRCS book yet, but I doubt this issue has been addressed.
If I were called upon to speculate--and what the heck, let's go for it--I'd say that all the moonblades, active and dormant, disappeared along with Evermeet.
That's close to my speculations as well...
As for Geno's book, I'm hoping it all goes very well for him. Having too many stories in my head and too much second-guessing in my writing skills, makes me appreciate success for anyone that can actually get their story down on paper and published. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 03:39:00
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
Would I be correct in guessing that the book your daughter's reading is Stephenie Meyer's Twilight?
LOL, nope that isn't it, I can't even remember the title at the moment, but I do remeber it is a best seller and had one of those neato gold foil medals on the cover
Star Wars Sage Edition?
Actually, the Saga Edition is pretty nice for the Star Wars game. And they finally released Knights of the Old Republic setting material...
More likely he is referring to the Newberry Award, which is a prestigious award for children's books.
That would be the one! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 09:39:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
The only fair conclusion I can make is that I am(as are most all of the posters here) far too sophisticated as readers to fairly judge a novel that is obviously not targeted for ours palettes!
I beg to differ. My one year old daughter was recently given The Gruffalo by Julia Donaldson and Axel Scheffler, and I thought it was marvellous. Some of their other books, which she also has, are good reads too.
Good books appeal to all ages, often because they can work on several levels. Although, admittedly, a large majority of books call for the reader to have lived for a number of years. For example, as a child of ten I could read The Lord of the Rings in a week. I enjoyed it for the fantastical images conjured by the text and the straight-forward heroism of the story. However, when I now read it, I find more meaning and depth to it. I very much admire Tolkien's use of language and the deeper emotions of the writer that can be detected. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 13:52:30
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| Yes, exactly. I reiterate: writing for children/young adults isn't an excuse to produce mediocre tripe. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 15:02:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
The only fair conclusion I can make is that I am(as are most all of the posters here) far too sophisticated as readers to fairly judge a novel that is obviously not targeted for ours palettes!
I beg to differ. My one year old daughter was recently given The Gruffalo by Julia Donaldson and Axel Scheffler, and I thought it was marvellous. Some of their other books, which she also has, are good reads too.
Good books appeal to all ages, often because they can work on several levels. Although, admittedly, a large majority of books call for the reader to have lived for a number of years. For example, as a child of ten I could read The Lord of the Rings in a week. I enjoyed it for the fantastical images conjured by the text and the straight-forward heroism of the story. However, when I now read it, I find more meaning and depth to it. I very much admire Tolkien's use of language and the deeper emotions of the writer that can be detected.
I will say that I agree with you to a point, Surely you have not enjoyed or will enjoy every children's book your daughter will ever read?
P.S. What a great age, my son Tristan will be 1 in 25 days! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 15:04:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
Yes, exactly. I reiterate: writing for children/young adults isn't an excuse to produce mediocre tripe.
I respect your opinion, but your statement proves my point.
What is Tripe to you or me is a delicacy to our dogs!
There really is a consumer who will value anything. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 15:49:21
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Surely you have not enjoyed or will enjoy every children's book your daughter will ever read?
I'll probably be able to answer that question better in a few years. For the moment, I haven't looked at any of her books and thought it was rubbish.
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
P.S. What a great age, my son Tristan will be 1 in 25 days!
Tristan is a good name. I'm glad there are still people who give children sensible names. My daughter is called Gwendolyn. One is a lovely age but they're very inquisitive. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 16:33:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Surely you have not enjoyed or will enjoy every children's book your daughter will ever read?
I'll probably be able to answer that question better in a few years. For the moment, I haven't looked at any of her books and thought it was rubbish.
To be fair I haven't classified any of my daughters books as rubbish either, some just do not suit me. As I think The Stowaway does not appear to either.
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
P.S. What a great age, my son Tristan will be 1 in 25 days!
quote:
Tristan is a good name. I'm glad there are still people who give children sensible names. My daughter is called Gwendolyn. One is a lovely age but they're very inquisitive.
Thank you I have been partial to Tristan since reading about Tristan and Isolde. The name was resparked in my head when reading the Moonshae trilogy. I have had to do alot of denying that he is named after Brad Pitt's character in Legends of the Fall.
Gwendolyn is a beautiful and underused name for sure. Very nice selection on your part! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 18:57:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
Yes, exactly. I reiterate: writing for children/young adults isn't an excuse to produce mediocre tripe.
I respect your opinion, but your statement proves my point.
What is Tripe to you or me is a delicacy to our dogs!
There really is a consumer who will value anything.
I'm not sure how I can spell this out any more clearly, short of separating each word into component letters: good children's/young adult fiction would also appeal to older readers, if not for the same reason it appeals to its target audience. |
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hawkytom
Seeker
USA
82 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2008 : 17:39:38
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I know this isn't actually considered a FR novel, but:
-Will this novel/series have any significance in the FR world?
quote:
"Heroes of Phlan, Children of Bhaal, and the Double Diamond Triangle Saga are generally ignored by authors. So don't take them too seriously when reading them"
Basically I'm curious if the novel will be considered among these novels. (Although these novels actually sport the 'FR insignia/logo')
Thanks! |
Any Lone Wolf fans? Old school gamebooks from the 80's? They are being re-released/updated, and new books 29-32 being written: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/novels/lonewolfsolo.html
Forgotten Realms BOOKS owned: ALL of them! (ebooks?...NONE! ever) |
Edited by - hawkytom on 08 Sep 2008 18:10:21 |
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Drizzt for kids?
