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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 23:49:43
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http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=16561368&postcount=105
quote:
Evermeet - it's still there. the portals to/from it are all gone (except maybe a few) so many think the place was whipped out. It is not. pg 132/133 are all about it. evermeet was teleported into the feywild with a echo of it on the planet. the echo appears just like the original. However, it states the last 8 dragons of evermeet, in isla sumbrar were killed or teleported somewhere else in the spellplague..now only creatures live in the ruins of that island...
-Now its the Isle of Dread/Xen'drik! 
BRIMSTONE 
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 11 Aug 2008 23:50:11
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 00:10:48
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So now we have what... THREE Xendriks?
Golly, this setting just keeps getting kewler...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 00:13:23
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-You can never have too many Xen'driks!  
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 01:45:03
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So basically Evermeet is "there", but in ruins?
I just need clarification, I find the quoted post a bit confusing. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 01:55:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
So basically Evermeet is "there", but in ruins?
I just need clarification, I find the quoted post a bit confusing.
The real Evermeet shift in the Feywild.
The echo in the real world is ruined. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 01:55:59
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-Yeah, but its in the Feywild also if you know what I mean. Thats what I got out of it.
-YMMV.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 01:56:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
So basically Evermeet is "there", but in ruins?
I just need clarification, I find the quoted post a bit confusing.
The real Evermeet shift in the Feywild.
The echo in the real world is ruined.
Thank you for the clarification. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 09:50:53
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| whoa, another blow, Evermeet's now just an ordinary place in the planes, a piece of Arvandor on the Prime was better |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 12:23:50
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| I put the elven kingdoms in small dimensional pockets years ago, so here is at least one thing that don't bother me. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 18:16:12
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They left it obscure because they are planning a core sourcebook set in the Feywild covering Evermeet, and they needed some justification for people who are using other settings to buy it.
Everything in FR is being dumbed-down and homogenized for core - just look at the track record.
Drow of the Underdark, Undermountain, The Draconimicon...
They needed Evermeet in the Fey wild so that they could get away with reprinting the old material as part of the 'greater D&D experience'.
They obviously are incapable of creating ANYTHING new on their own, so they are going back and using past bits of FR lore so that they don't have to work so hard. Even this concept of an 'echo' left behind on the prime material has been used before, numerous times. Ravenloft made good use of that, and the most prominent example that comes to mind is Lord Soth's Realm, which was intact in RL, but just a ruin in Dragonlance.
Seriously; these guys wouldn't know a fresh idea if one fell out of the sky and hit them in the head.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Aug 2008 18:52:11 |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 18:32:40
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| That's exactly what I was squawking about a year ago : how can the 4E FR possibly be as good or better than (the real) FR when the design team are nowhere near as talented as the original creator? Their solution was to yank as much original material out so they can present their new stuff on their own terms. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 18:48:44
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
That's exactly what I was squawking about a year ago : how can the 4E FR possibly be as good or better than (the real) FR when the design team are nowhere near as talented as the original creator? Their solution was to yank as much original material out so they can present their new stuff on their own terms.
To be fair, neither Unther nor Maztica were in the original Realms. Not that I appreciate that they obliviated them instead of Realms-ifying them, or that they built up good, logical (IMO) story reasons for the obliviating; but they did not obliviate "original material." In this case though, I will have to differ to a more knowledgable sage (i.e. bought Realms supplements before 3e; not that I did not read novels before that, but that is the point at which I started collecting Realms supplements) than myself as to how much Evermeet is part of the original Realms. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 12 Aug 2008 18:52:25 |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 18:58:22
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Calm down, take a deep breath, and think before typing. Some of the designers past, present and possibly future visit our little home away from home.
If you don’t like the way the setting is heading, take Garens’ advice, and write a letter to WoTC. If you feel it is too late and it is doomed
then move on already and start producing pre-spellplague lore for us to devour. (do we have a broken record emoticon or a dead horse emoticon??) If you think you can do better than the current designers, get off your rump and get published so we can complain about how you messed everything up in 6th edition Forgotten Realms in 2016.
I click on the Evermeet thread I want to see something useful, not this... |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 19:05:18
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But it would have been MORE work for them to fix everything, so instead they just replaced whatever they weren't talented enough to 're-imagine'.
They replaced Maztica, and who did they have work on it?
Ed, that who!
They are well aware of their own limitations, and I bet it pisses them off no end. <evil grin>
All they can do is build upon the lore created by giants, and hope no-one notices.
Ask yourself how much material a person can write - a normal person, not a lore-machine like ED - in an eight hour day. Now multiply that by 5, and then times 52 (the number of weeks in a year).
Then figure out how many people WotC is paying to 'design', and ask yourself...
What the hell do they do all day long?
Especially when you consider much of what is printed (including the 3e stuff) is just a re-hash of older stuff already written years earlier. And to add insult to injury, they destroyed all that old lore because they felt it was 'too hard' to research anything (poor babies... having to work for their paycheck... my heart bleeds for them...)
A single person could have written the FRCG in less then a year, and done a better job (just look at all the stuff Monte Cook churns out). With three years and a team, the FRCG should have been GOLDEN.
And it was far, FAR from... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 20:21:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
If you think you can do better than the current designers, get off your rump and get published so we can complain about how you messed everything up in 6th edition Forgotten Realms in 2016.
Actually, I am working on my own personal revised 3.5 rules set for my playing group. Sometime in September (hopefully October at the very latest), I will have a website up showcasing it. I will also borrow the bits of rules that are open content that I like from other revised 3.5 systems (i.e. Paizo's Pathfinder RPG, and probably Monte Cook's Experimental Might series, as well as other bits I find here and there). Then, maybe I will have time to work on actually developing my own campaign setting (preferably with a friend or two) and trying to get it published. I prefer to to things one at a time though. And, I would not be nearly as upset if it seemed as if the WotC-employee designers of the 4e Realms had actually put some effort to making the changes logical and well-reasoned. So far, this does not seem to be the case. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 20:23:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
I click on the Evermeet thread I want to see something useful, not this...
Well, to be fair, it doesn't seem like much detail has been given about it anyway. I'd check the WotC boards, but they seem to be down today. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 20:59:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
I click on the Evermeet thread I want to see something useful, not this...
Well, to be fair, it doesn't seem like much detail has been given about it anyway. I'd check the WotC boards, but they seem to be down today.
Well, Enworld had a piece about people having early copies of FRCG and a link to the forum. News has had time to spread. So every realms fan, whether they like the changes or not, is moving there to get details on the changes. Either to complain about them or to champion them. Then there is the chances of flame wars between the two sides getting out of control or other glitches.
So a millions of Realms fans, plus the inability to accommidate them or control them leads to frequent breakdowns of the site. It will likely increase in down time before it gets better. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 21:02:52
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So that's 1 million elves wiped from the surface of Faerûn too? Lolth will like that turn of events.
(Until she finds out what they have done to the drow cities. I reckon they all went too and just one or two are left - i.e. the poor Vault of the Drow* - style. But hey, we won't want to start any rumours.)
*(Which will be - yes, you guessed correctly - Menzoberranzan!) |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 12 Aug 2008 21:04:04 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 21:37:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
Well, Enworld had a piece about people having early copies of FRCG and a link to the forum. News has had time to spread. So every realms fan, whether they like the changes or not, is moving there to get details on the changes. Either to complain about them or to champion them. Then there is the chances of flame wars between the two sides getting out of control or other glitches.
So a millions of Realms fans, plus the inability to accommidate them or control them leads to frequent breakdowns of the site. It will likely increase in down time before it gets better.
-Ah, not exactly. The problems on the WotC site of late are due to a corruption in one of their physical servers, a problem with the vBulletin script, in relation to the WotC website, and an increased traffic to the site since the debut of 4e. It has nothing to do with the Forgotten Realms specifically. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 12 Aug 2008 21:37:43 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 21:40:20
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-Its the Death Throw's of STUPID GLEEMAX!
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2008 : 22:09:30
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-Some new info.
[QUOTE=StarFyre2007;16565103]Oh, regarding Evermeet again, i read the full paragraph...in addition to the dragons in Isla Sumbrar disappearing, it also mentions all those eternal soldiers there (along with the dragons) and the spelljammer Armadas that were hidden there, they all burned in the magical fires of the spellplague..so basically, the most powerful army on the FR (other than Larlochs 60+ liches or whatever it is) is gone..but since they are in the Feywild now, I guess that makes no difference.
Sanjay[/QUOTE]
BRIMSTONE
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 00:27:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
Well, Enworld had a piece about people having early copies of FRCG and a link to the forum. News has had time to spread. So every realms fan, whether they like the changes or not, is moving there to get details on the changes. Either to complain about them or to champion them. Then there is the chances of flame wars between the two sides getting out of control or other glitches.
So a millions of Realms fans, plus the inability to accommidate them or control them leads to frequent breakdowns of the site. It will likely increase in down time before it gets better.
Frequent forum-crashing on the WotC boards isn't anything new or recent, though.
EDIT: I see Dagnirion explained it even more thoroughly. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 13 Aug 2008 00:28:16 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 00:29:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-Some new info.
[QUOTE=StarFyre2007;16565103]Oh, regarding Evermeet again, i read the full paragraph...in addition to the dragons in Isla Sumbrar disappearing, it also mentions all those eternal soldiers there (along with the dragons) and the spelljammer Armadas that were hidden there, they all burned in the magical fires of the spellplague..so basically, the most powerful army on the FR (other than Larlochs 60+ liches or whatever it is) is gone..but since they are in the Feywild now, I guess that makes no difference.
Sanjay
BRIMSTONE
OK, I'm still confused. The soldiers burned up in the Spellplague and are gone, but they're in the Feywild, so they're OK? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 13 Aug 2008 00:31:05 |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 03:19:59
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" If you think you can do better than the current designers, get off your rump"
Thank you for completely missing my point. Adding bits and pieces to the Realms is something many have done very well. Look at Salvatore. But a complete overhaul of everything, now that only the original creator has the talent to do. All these excerpts only confirms my fears. |
Edited by - RodOdom on 13 Aug 2008 03:22:07 |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
757 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 08:06:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
If you think you can do better than the current designers, get off your rump and get published so we can complain about how you messed everything up in 6th edition Forgotten Realms in 2016.
Additionally -- and at the risk of it sounding like a tired apology -- most of us have day (or night) jobs. This is our hobby, yet most of us here can be more creative in a few off hours between real life commitments than the whole WotC design team over the course of how many design man-years. I'm really happy for you -- you seem to be really enamoured of 4E and more specifically 4E Realms -- but don't you dare try to chastise anyone for having a differing opinion.</end rant> |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 15:20:33
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I'm going to have to call you out on this one Kyrene as I know from firsthand experience that it's not as easy as it appears. Not by a long shot. Until you're given a true writing assignment with a short deadline, you have no idea what it's like for these designers. Hell, I typically spend half my alloted time just researching for the article before I even start writing.
If you truly believe that you can be more creative than the WotC team, then I look forward to seeing your future submissions to Dragon Magazine or Candlkeep Compendium.
quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
This is our hobby, yet most of us here can be more creative in a few off hours between real life commitments than the whole WotC design team over the course of how many design man-years.
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 15:36:38
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| And at this point, I think maybe everyone needs to just step away from the keyboards and take several deep breaths. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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StarBog
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 15:40:41
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I have to agree with Brian. Writing professionally (or for commercial organisations) is a whole diffent kettle of worms than doing so in an amateur fashion. None of us non-professionals know the exact constraints and pressures that writers have been put under with the new FRCS. It would perhaps behove us to give some of the chaps a break.
Somtimes I wonder if I'm being a bit too hard on the new FRCS given how many of the authors who have contributed to it also contribute here. I wonder where and how do we draw the line between acknowledging the undoubted skills of said authors and expressing our disagreements with the direction the Forgotten Realms has taken?
To put it bluntly: how do we resolve the inherent contradictions in saying "We think you're a good author, and we enjoy your stuff, but 4e FRCS stinks, including the stuff you wrote?"
(edit: WR - just saw your post which was posted as I was writing mine. feel free to delete this post if it isn't helpful)
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Edited by - StarBog on 13 Aug 2008 15:41:49 |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 15:41:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
If you truly believe that you can be more creative than the WotC team, then I look forward to seeing your future submissions to Dragon Magazine or Candlkeep Compendium.
Excellent point well made Brian. I have lots of unfinished pieces of Lore that translate well in my campaign, but not well when written down for others to look at unless they know the backstory 'to where we are at now'. Coming up with ideas is (fairly) easy, giving them coherence and interest to others in the written form is another kettle of fish entirely! (or whatever the equivilent Realmsian saying is  )
general question: Are we any clearer on whether fan created edition neutral pieces for the Compendium are acceptable under the 4E OGL/GSL licence. I seem to recall some debate about the new legal requirements and their interpretation?
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 15:52:27
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| I don't think we actually came to a decision on that. Though, as I see it, so long as the OGL/GSL doesn't specifically prohibit such activities, I don't see a problem. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 17:34:37
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
general question: Are we any clearer on whether fan created edition neutral pieces for the Compendium are acceptable under the 4E OGL/GSL licence. I seem to recall some debate about the new legal requirements and their interpretation?
That's why I'm waiting. If RA Salvatore and Ed Greenwood are forced into the Shattered Realms, then I'll be done with my reading. If by chance Drizzt continues where he is and Ed continues to write Realms lore, then I'll atleast have 2 people to go to for Realms stuff. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Evermeet in the 4E FRCG
