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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jun 2008 : 11:11:42
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Like drow standing, maybe?
FR Dark Elves looked like this ...
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While the original Dark Elves from before the Crown Wars were merely dusky elves with pale hair, the drow of the Underdark have, over the millennia of exile, darkened to obsidian and taken on their more familiar visages as enemies. And many shudder when they hear tales that the drow are trying to create some sort of fell analogue of High Magic to replace what they do not have.
Cormanthyr - Empire of Elves, p.126
... and I kind of disregard most that comes after that scholarly book. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2008 : 18:10:54
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quote:
Originally posted by dirtywick
I can't think of any other evil organization or race that gets it so good; even in the Year of the Rogue Dragons series the heroes were smacking around dragons by the dozens! Throw some drow at them, though, and I bet they wouldn't have fared so well.
Well, there's no way to know the answer to that, because as far as I recall the protagonists of that series never fought drow.
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Just saying, they definately get preferential treatment by the Realms authors.
Well, protagonists in general get preferential treatment from the author writing the book. The drow probably seem superpowerful because a lot of them have been protagonists, and one of them has about 20 novels under his belt (too much for any one character, IMO) AND the author generally plays up how powerful he is.
You can like or not like the drow, and I'd agree that they've gotten a disproportionate amount of "air time" over the years, but I'm not quite convinced that every FR author has a mind to give drow characters (if they appear) any special treatment that they wouldn't give to any other character.
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You did get the books right, by the way. Of course I've read some Salvatore, which isn't much different but there's far less focus on the drow in general outside of...Sojourn, Exile? Whatever that series is called.
Well, most of RAS's books focus on at least one drow--Drizzt. ;) The series that came chronologically after the Icewind Dale trilogy--The Legacy of the Drow series--is chock full of drow, and the Underdark. Even the books without Drizzt generally involve Jarlaxle (and by extension, his own merry band of drow).
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 17 Jun 2008 18:15:02 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2008 : 18:14:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Like drow standing, maybe?
FR Dark Elves looked like this ...
quote:
While the original Dark Elves from before the Crown Wars were merely dusky elves with pale hair, the drow of the Underdark have, over the millennia of exile, darkened to obsidian and taken on their more familiar visages as enemies. And many shudder when they hear tales that the drow are trying to create some sort of fell analogue of High Magic to replace what they do not have.
Cormanthyr - Empire of Elves, p.126
... and I kind of disregard most that comes after that scholarly book.
As do I. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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dirtywick
Seeker
69 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2008 : 01:09:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Well, there's no way to know the answer to that, because as far as I recall the protagonists of that series never fought drow.
I know. I was being absurd to make a point.
quote:
Well, protagonists in general get preferential treatment from the author writing the book. The drow probably seem superpowerful because a lot of them have been protagonists, and one of them has about 20 novels under his belt (too much for any one character, IMO) AND the author generally plays up how powerful he is.
Of course, and that's understandable. Protagonists and villians should be given preferential treatment (until it's time for the protagonists to defeat the villian), makes for a more exciting situation.
However, I'm saying that as a race they're treated preferentially. It's one thing to have your protagonists and villians (well, anyone with a name) some kind of preferential treatment because they're important to the story. But when it happens with random drow, it gets ridiculous. I'm not going to say I've read every instance of the drow making an appearance, but from what I have read, it's more like they raid a town and destroy everybody with their super stealth and awesomeness and blah blah blah.
"Hey Fyodor, a small party of drow with some zombies are going to attack your village!"
"Ok, we're badass berserkers Liriel, don't worry about it. I did kill a kraken single handedly after all."
"But...they're drow! Remember what happened when you fought that one near the dragon's horde? The same ones that slaughtered all those pirates in Waterdeep until the followers of Elistraee were the only thing standing between Waterdeep's entire annihilation? Maybe I'm exaggerating, but when you fought him that was like no contest, probably among the most disappointing parts of the series. Luckily I am also a drow, though."
"At least I'll survive the battle."
"Well...let's take this one step at a time. Go in that cave, and get the crap whipped out of you, and bring your friends. Be completely ineffective. Then kill the only human, you can handle that much at least. I'll take care of everything else. Hey, maybe I can turn into a flying howitzer like last time and win the entire battle alone? You never know."
Or...
"Hey Ryld, I'm going to throw you into that human building there!"
"Ok, draegloth or whatever you are that I can't spell."
"But when we get in there, we'll just cut them to pieces because we're drow and cool and stuff. In fact, they're so weak and not drow that let's pretend like they're just an after thought, even though the author went to a pretty great lenght to explain them to be veteran warriors. Probably just to make us look all that much cooler."
"I'm down. You can throw me in there now. Also I'm one of the two likeable characters in the book whereas I don't think anyone likes you. I hope you know what you're getting in to!"
Or...
"Hey Halisstra, there's your friend about to enter Lloth's domain! We should probably stop them."
"Well, one of you is a drow, and I've got the most powerful sword in the world...but you messed up and brought that surfacer elf, we're pretty much doomed. Didn't you see what happened last time when you guys captured me? I murdered you all like it was nothing and ran off. You guys suck."
"Yeah, but we could probably at least hurt one of them, right? I mean, we did cross the Abyss! That's got to count for something, right?"
"No...you won't be more than a minor annoyance. The surface elf more of a joke, actually."
Or...
"Hey, look! The drow have lost half of their magic! Let's bring the two biggest armies combined and fight them! We can probably win!"
"I don't know, on paper it seems like a good idea, I mean, they did just lose all of their slaves, but something is bugging me..."
"Nah dude. Ched Nassad fell! Granted the guys fighting them kind of won by accident and none of them survived, even their famous mercenary leader was killed by a priestess with a wand, but they did it."
"Yeah, but it was really the drow behind it all. We don't have a drow manipulating us."
"Oh but we do! Well, kind of. He's actually not a full blooded drow, but close enough, right? I mean, it's not like a blind wizard could outsmart being imprisoned by a mindflayer and walk right into our camp, then defeat both an ancient lich and a half shadow dragon assassin at the same time, right? Because, that would be a little ridiculous. Trust me, this will be perfect."
You know, etc.
quote:
You can like or not like the drow, and I'd agree that they've gotten a disproportionate amount of "air time" over the years, but I'm not quite convinced that every FR author has a mind to give drow characters (if they appear) any special treatment that they wouldn't give to any other character.
Really? I see it more like a James Bond movie. The guy guns down lackeys by the dozens on snow mobiles or whatever, but then he gets in the elevator and has to fight that one guy for like ten minutes. Except everyone else is the lackeys, and every drow is the "that one guy". They never have any lackeys.
I'd have fewer problems if the unimportant drow got dropped like the Zhents or Red Wizards did, but that only happens when there's another drow around. You pit them against a human or elf, forget it, they are James Bond. |
Subtlety of Thay Ch 1 and Ch 2 NWN2 Module |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2008 : 01:43:02
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Dirtywick ... most if not all examples you cited fall into the category I noted above. Ryld and that Draegloth are inded head and shoulders above anything a logfellers community can muster - taken together. The latter average at warrior 3 to ranger 5, at the most. That is CR 2 to CR 5. Jezzred is a Dragloth Barbarian 9 / Fighter 4 (CR 19) and Ryld a Rogue 2/ Fighter 15 (CR 18). They were bound to save a deity and thus of nigh epic levels. And so it is with many examples you cited.
Even the drow zombies Fyodor and kin fought were no mere zombies, but apparently juju-zombies, each of them most likely made to face 4 Fyodors in an encounter, not just one.
There are enough examples of drow being messed around with too, or, even worse, Zhentarim being messed around by other people. And don't forget the orcs, they fell in their droves and no-one really bemoans the power of their conquerors. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 21 Jun 2008 01:45:12 |
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dirtywick
Seeker
69 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2008 : 08:03:31
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So now even their zombies are high level...you're killing me here.
Zanan, that's the entire point. I don't know if I'm just not explaining myself properly or what. The drow are often portrayed as ridiculously powerful, and you can cite "well they're high level" all you want, but at the end of the day they're forgetting to put low level drow in there to put things into perspective. And I'm officially done reading about it because it annoys me. There's no sense of balance. And Realms authors don't do that to anyone else. For every Elminster I can find you 100 bandit pincushions. Even the demons have lemurs (speaking of which, didn't Quenthel and crew fight an entire ARMY of mezzoloths lead by one of the most powerful ultroloths around by themselves!? Even Elminster couldn't handle one when he went to Hell...) For every Gromph...not so much.
Alright, tell you what though, I'll give you a chance at changing my mind. I'm really coming short of examples where the drow get messed up by anyone but other drow. Refresh my memory, or if you can't from the 12 novels dealing almost exclusively with drow I've listed above, I'll even pick up a new book if I have to. After reading the last group of novels I have, I'd like nothing better than to see them get whooped on by some humans or surface elves or whatever the same way they do to everyone else they come across. You'd make my day.
I ain't going to hold my breath, though.
P.S. For all the lameness done to the Zhents and Orcs, they still have The Last Mythal trilogy and Obould. For every Obould, or Fzoul, or Mansoon, there's 100 nobodies that get dropped like nothing. Balance and perspective. |
Subtlety of Thay Ch 1 and Ch 2 NWN2 Module |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2008 : 10:31:34
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dirtywick ... I just state what's in the novels and in lore. "Juju"-zombies have been around for ages, I know them from AD&D (i.e. long before 1998). And EC clearly describes the zombies in there as intelligent undead, not those of the normal MM "brains" sort of stuff. They were tough cookies in AD&D, there can be pretty tough cookies in 3E. Fyodor at level 9 is pretty powerful (for a human warrior-type), quite a handful of Eilistraeens are roundabout his or even higher level.
You base you opinion on novels where drow rule, so it gets "tainted" by that drow heroism fair and square. But that is pretty normal. Ed Greenwood's Silverfall gives an example how people more or equally powerful as drow handle them, Lost Library of Cormanthor features a drow baddie who in the end ..., well I don't want to spoil that show. Realms of the Elves show you how drow can be handled by people out and about hunting drow, people who are of equal level of the drow. The Last Mythal intimates that the drow of Cormanthor do have a hard time against the numerous and not least powerful elves as well as humans too. It is all out there.
BTW, the Spellfire trilogy really hands a hard time to the Zhentarim - and I for one guess that they are not cloned like the Stormtroopers in Star Wars, so there should be some end to the slaughter or the Dark Brotherhood runs out of personnel. Same goes for the Knights of Myth Drannor series. Why? Because most of the heroes have, as I said, 5 or more character levels than those people who they face. People, who themselves are some 5 levels above the common populace. It differs when powerful people meet powerful people. Elminster in Hell clearly presents the limits of an archmage, an archmage who potentially could run havoc through Waterdeep et al.
As you might have noted in WotSQ, duergar fighters, tanarukka fighters as well as these half-shadow dragons can match up to drow as well.
One needs to compare the "power" shown with the context - at least these days. Obould rules his kin and has got 9 character levels, officially. That is quite a lot for an orc and hence he got to his status. Most of his folk will not have half of that and the large bulk will still be warriors (NPC class) and that's the reason why Drizzt virtually walks through them. But any other character of his or even half his would do that too.
As I said above, drow are meant to be like they appear. These days, designers as well as authors do keep the lore in mind. Drow runing about in the Underdark are not typically faced by human adventurers, but Underdark creatures who are pretty powerful as well. Hence, no drow party in the Underdark is of low level (unless they are refugees on the run).
If you take the City of the Spider Queen campaign as an example, there is e.g. a team of four drow characters, lead by a priestess (CR 12), accompanied by 3 "scouts" (CR 7 each). That would be a challenge for a group of four characters of level 13. That's a party meant for travelling way beyond the limits and borders of a city, i.e. the UD wilds. In close proximity to a city, that party would be of lower levels, because the dangers are not as grieve. As in: all you need to look at is the context. And many current authors take note of that. One final example in this respect, Lisa Smedman put pretty high-level folk (Leiliana and Cavatina) up against a number of oozes, who usually do not present that great a challenge. If they are up against an adventurer group with a spellhurling mage and the like that is. Faced alone with somesuch though can easily prove to be fatal even to folk way beyond such things' challenge ratings. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Trailstalker
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 12:21:10
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I hope not to catch flak for bumping such an old thread, but...
Dirtywick, you've been talking about how, in the novels, the drow (as a whole) are neigh unstoppable, how they kill pretty much everything, etc. etc. etc.
In addition to Zanan's statements (which I agree with), also allow me to point out in Seige of Darkness and the Last Mythal series, both have drow catching a major whipping from the "good guys". I can't recall off the top of my head the numbers lost, but the drow suffered incredible casualties at the hands of the dwarves/humans/etc. when they attacked Mithril Hall. There was also a drow house/clan, IIRC, in the Last Mythal series that got their teeth kicked in as well.
Much like anything else, the drow are specifically adept in their own environment. Take them out of that environment, and they don't fare so well. |
Dash Trailstalker
Halfling Ranger |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 07:40:47
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| In the last Drizzt book I read, he couldn't beat an orc. The human, Entreri, is his equal. In the last Jarlaxe/Entreri book I read, they were defeated by a group of humans. Halaster his a long history of killing Drow. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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dirtywick
Seeker
69 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 23:42:39
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I don't recall any drow in the Last Mythal series. It's been quite a while since I read that, however.
Aulduron, what was the title of the last Jarlaxle/Entreri book? If it's the Sellsword series we have different definitions of "defeated".
In any case, it doesn't really matter. It's the impression I got after reading a dozen drow specific books and others featuring drow. I'm really just turned off of the whole subject of drow as a result, and I don't want to slog through yet another drow book to see them lose, I think I've given enough of my time to that. The War of the Spider Queen and then the Lady Pentient afterwards...I don't know, I just could go the rest of my life not reading another word about the drow and I'm good. You all can disagree, that's cool with me because there's plenty of other FR stuff to enjoy. After those 9 books, well that was it for me if you understand what I'm saying. |
Subtlety of Thay Ch 1 and Ch 2 NWN2 Module |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 01:23:02
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quote:
Originally posted by dirtywick
I don't recall any drow in the Last Mythal series. It's been quite a while since I read that, however.
They were in there. The third book, I believe.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 01:38:50
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quote:
If it's the Sellsword series we have different definitions of "defeated".
Yes, we must.
They had a castle, with an army of gargoyles, drow, and undead, including a dragon. Jarlaxle knew any victory he might achieve would come at too high a cost, so he retreated beyond their reach. Even Kimmuriel (sp), one of the deadliest people I've read about, in the Realms, wanted no part in fighting Gareth and crew.
What Jarlaxle wants, Jarlaxle gets, until that group of humans got in his way. I'd call that a defeat.
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"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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dirtywick
Seeker
69 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 02:51:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
quote:
If it's the Sellsword series we have different definitions of "defeated".
Yes, we must.
They had a castle, with an army of gargoyles, drow, and undead, including a dragon. Jarlaxle knew any victory he might achieve would come at too high a cost, so he retreated beyond their reach. Even Kimmuriel (sp), one of the deadliest people I've read about, in the Realms, wanted no part in fighting Gareth and crew.
What Jarlaxle wants, Jarlaxle gets, until that group of humans got in his way. I'd call that a defeat.
That's not how I read his plan. He was ready to hand the castle over to them as part of a ploy to gain, I forget what (didn't he even have a "here's the castle I did it to make you look good" note ready?), but Entreri ran his mouth when the army showed up and screwed it all up which is why he retreated.
But, whatever. |
Subtlety of Thay Ch 1 and Ch 2 NWN2 Module |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 04:13:15
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Yes, he always has contingencies.
It's been awhile since I read it, but I'm pretty sure he planned on becoming a power in the Bloodstone Lands, to find more artifacts.
Though I can understand your becoming tired of the Drow. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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dirtywick
Seeker
69 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 04:55:57
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| See, I thought he had set that up so the king would get the glory for reconquering Zheng Yi then get some kind of reward from the King. That could have been a contingency, but I thought he planned it from the beginning to work out that way. It's also been a while since I read that haha |
Subtlety of Thay Ch 1 and Ch 2 NWN2 Module |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 05:19:02
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| I think he was mostly trying to fit in, and be accepted, in order to find better opportunities on the surface, than he could below. However, Entreri spoiled that for him. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 09:56:41
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| Keep in mind that not the characters write the novels ... |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Trailstalker
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 18:22:46
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I much prefer Drow as they're supposed to be; sinister, plotting, evil little buggers whom - in their environment - are quite lethal.
However, from a game mechanics point of view, what has happened with them recently? I just came back from 6 months in Afghanistan, and it seems 4th Ed. has completely jacked things up. Can someone explain what changes have been made? I'd even accept a PM, if discussing such is frowned upon in the open forum or if I'm hijacking this thread... |
Dash Trailstalker
Halfling Ranger |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2008 : 23:28:52
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| PM sent |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 01:43:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Trailstalker
Can someone explain what changes have been made? I'd even accept a PM, if discussing such is frowned upon in the open forum or if I'm hijacking this thread...
There are some threads to read about this in the forums that discuss WotC news, as well. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Jemcrystal
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 17:16:37
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I agree with Markustay. Several others had interresting things to say but I need more time to sort through. To many useless comments. I never asked to speak to people who hated / were-tired-of the drow. Perhaps I should have been more specific.
I know drow haters are out there. I did not start this thread for you. If you want a drow hating thread start a drow hating thread. Please, I would appreciate ONLY those who are interrested in drow to comment.
Thank you bunches!!! ^^ |
http://jemcrystal.tripod.com/ |
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 23:22:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
I agree with Markustay. Several others had interresting things to say but I need more time to sort through. To many useless comments. I never asked to speak to people who hated / were-tired-of the drow. Perhaps I should have been more specific.
I know drow haters are out there. I did not start this thread for you. If you want a drow hating thread start a drow hating thread. Please, I would appreciate ONLY those who are interrested in drow to comment.
Thank you bunches!!! ^^
Um...
It's a discussion board!
DrowFan1: "I like drow."
DrawFan2: "Hey, I do, too!"
I mean... that's not exactly enlightening, is it? The drow have been some of the most popularly written-about characters in the setting for two decades (largely due to Mr. Salvatore), and yes, I'm including Drizzt novels in that. Do'Urden is frequently the victim of both fanboyism and hatred due to being 'too popular.'
Regardless, your feeling that there are not enough drow novels is, apologetically, a bit meaningless. Aside from, perhaps, humans, there are more drow protagonists than any other race, certainly more than gnomes or halflings.
That, and you don't own the boards, nor do you possess the power to ban people as you see fit. You can't just ask for only people who agree with you to contribute to the "discussion". If you develop a somewhat trivial topic, you should at least expect a little disagreement. That, and calling anyone "dumb," whether they're posters or not, does little to abate dissenters. |
Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 00:07:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
I agree with Markustay. Several others had interresting things to say but I need more time to sort through. To many useless comments. I never asked to speak to people who hated / were-tired-of the drow.
On this discussion board, everyone is permited to participate. That's just the way it goes on a "public" forum. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 02:55:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
I agree with Markustay. Several others had interresting things to say but I need more time to sort through. To many useless comments. I never asked to speak to people who hated / were-tired-of the drow. Perhaps I should have been more specific.
I know drow haters are out there. I did not start this thread for you. If you want a drow hating thread start a drow hating thread. Please, I would appreciate ONLY those who are interrested in drow to comment.
Thank you bunches!!! ^^
You may want to amend this to say "If you're a drow fan, speak up." Having an interest in something doesn't necessarily equate to a like of it. You're inviting comments from all the folks who either; 1. Are drow fans, like yourself. 2. Wish that drow were something else/better/different, and will give you a thesis explaining their hypothesis. or 3. Hate the drow and want to share why they do.
As Rin said this is a public forum, not a chatroom so you can't pick and choose. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 18:52:07
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Drow threads ALWAYS end badly - I got into a fight with a good friend over them.
Totally stupid, in hindsight. 
Anyhow, I had to go back and read what I wrote to figure out what you were agreeing to. 
Mostly it was just some obseravations about the novels, and since I feel most of them shouldn't even exist (not just the Drizzt/Drow ones), I'm not really a good example of someone who is objective. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Aug 2008 18:52:36 |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2008 : 19:00:34
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| IMO, the Maztica trilogy were FR novels with a balanced view of drow. The Maztican drow get soundly defeated, while wonderfully portrayed as mysterious BBEGs and schemers of the first rank. I didn't consider the novels great literature but had no complaints about their portrayal of drow. |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 17:02:59
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
IMO, the Maztica trilogy were FR novels with a balanced view of drow. The Maztican drow get soundly defeated, while wonderfully portrayed as mysterious BBEGs and schemers of the first rank. I didn't consider the novels great literature but had no complaints about their portrayal of drow.
Matter of factly, the WotSQ series is pretty balanced too - IF one takes the level of the characters in question into consideration. "In the field" (Menzoberranzan), the drow suffered much like the duergar and the tanarukka. Neither of them are average "fighters" and thus posed a threat to the drow. If you go on and take CotSQ's backstory as an example too, you can easily see that there is a difference with your every-day drow in a city like Maerimydra and high-level folk like Quenthel, Gromph, Danifae or now Q'arlynd. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Jemcrystal
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2008 : 15:55:13
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"DrowFan1: "I like drow."
DrawFan2: "Hey, I do, too!"
I mean... that's not exactly enlightening, is it?"
Yes, it is.
It's called mingling. |
http://jemcrystal.tripod.com/ |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2008 : 16:23:42
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I loved the War of the Spider Queen. Any time that the Realms become a more dangerous, chaotic place, good drama comes from the conflict. That's why I'm still open-minded about the Shattered Realms.
Pharaun was oh-so-much fun. He was what I would consider a paragon of the race and a pleasure to read. But I enjoyed the justice meeted out to those characters...worship of a demon is worship of a demon, and it has consequences.
And of course, just because the finger hasn't been used doesn't mean it never will be...
Drow are people. Race aside, they have personalities, desires, the whole gamut. I don't really see why so many folk get bent out of shape about their "over-population" in the storylines...especially when you consider how many other novels completely sidestep the dark elves altogether. The Realms (to paraphrase Egg-Shen) are a salad bar - you take what you want and leave the rest. |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Thalos_Milathriel
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 22:50:13
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I agree. Pharaun was one of the better drow characters. Hopefully Alisza will use that finger to ressurect him post-Spellplague and maybe we'll have a new trilogy where the two of them try to escape Khanyr Vhok and protect their child from some sinister demoic plot.
Q'arlynd is also a recent favorite. I enjoyed reading about him.
Drizzt is great, but Salvatore should shake it up or something. Seems like I'm reading about a drow's "Golden Years". Need some danger... need a fall from grace. Is Drizz't becoming a deity soon? Seems to perfect to be mortal... Just my two cents.
Jarlaxle is my FAVORITE drow character. A blast to read about and you never know if he'll be a bastard or a good guy. He truly embodies the chaos of the drow.
Funny, but I'm halfway through rereading the War Of The Spider Queen series right now. I can never get enough drow novels, but I'm open to surface Elves, humans tieflings and whatever. I'm an insomniac, so I go through these books pretty quickly. MORE REALMS NOVELS, STAT! |
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Drow
