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Yasraena Dawndancer
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 10:19:42
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*sigh* I haven't gotten the book yet. I just OFFICIALLY found out what happened this weekend. As a member of Eilistraee.com and active FR fan, I'm disappointed, but not surprised. I knew that certain elements have had it out for Eilistraee for a while. Not just developers but fellow gamers I respect and love. People either loved her or hated her. I was upset they killed Vhaerun too, he was a nice alternative and great for throwing against both Eilistraeen's and Followers of Lloth.
But, the minority of Elie fan's versus the number of Mystra Fans are quite limited. And they whacked Mystra. I too am not sure how my characters would feel about being suddenly Dark Elves again. My Drow, no matter what God/Goddess they worshiped were always very proud of their race. I actually think adding another Elven Race complicates things more than a Good Goddess did. Oh well. Its done... |
One who has true faith and good deeds, never fears death. |
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Nkoda
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 01:54:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Cam
quote:
Originally posted by Nkoda
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Perhaps it was a different character (I know nothing about the book in question, btw)? I've read plenty of books that featured a character on the cover who was not the protagonist.
bald guy with a sword on the cover of a book called the sellsword. pretty sure it was just a communiaction error. but then i did read that essay by le Guin about how she had so much resistance to having a brown skinned character on a cover.
Yes, it's supposed to be the main character. Vanderjack is Ergothian, and they are a dark-skinned human culture in the Dragonlance setting. Some of them are lighter-skinned than others, but the guy on the cover (which I still really am pleased with) has entirely the wrong complexion.
Cheers,
Cam (the author of said novel)
shameless fanboyism but that was one of my favorite novels i've read this year. |
Welcome to Jamrock |
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Pandora
Learned Scribe
Germany
305 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 18:14:29
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
5.The idea of being inherently evil. They said that now the drow who followed Eilistraee have been transformed back to dark elves, the remainder have no hope of being saved, what with Eilistraee gone and all. They are Lloth's, forever. Sure, if something is extraplanar then I accept that it can be inherently evil, but not if it's of the Prime. That's the same reason I detest the phrase ”the good races” from the Drizzt books. There are elves, humans, dwarves, gnomes and halflings out there far more evil that most orcs and goblinoids could even imagine. And the ”millions of dark elves have the blood of a balor in them so most are irredeemable” is bollocks. That was, what, 20.000 years ago? Surely that taint has been diluted. And take Magadon from the Erevis Cale books. He's a half-devil, for Ao's sake, and he's not evil!
Well if Drow are "evil forever" shouldnt the fair elves all be "good forever"? After reading Evermeet again and all the nice things the gold elves did it seems hardly possible. If it is possible its the pinnacle of boredom ... black and white society. |
If you cant say what youre meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying.
- Centauri Minister of Intelligence, Babylon 5 |
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Laerun
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 00:32:40
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Not very happy with this series of books or the events. Also, did anyone else notice that the author started the books off fairly well, and then waited to release the last book for several months? Something happened to her passion to write... sorry Lisa Smedman...
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 01:13:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Laerun
Not very happy with this series of books or the events. Also, did anyone else notice that the author started the books off fairly well, and then waited to release the last book for several months? Something happened to her passion to write... sorry Lisa Smedman...
It could have been WotC waiting to release the last book... Authors rarely have much say in when a book will be released. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 17:42:41
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
4.The idea that the dark elves were originally brown, not black, seems offensive to me. It's like, ”while we were good we were brown, but when we got cursed and became evil we became black”. I hope the Reverend Jeremiah Wright doesn't hear about that gem...
It gets even worse considering that part of te reason behind an Orc kingdom in 4e is supposedly because someone at WoTc was concerned about how they were promoting "racism" by showing orcs as hopelessly evil. But this was okay, apparently.
But it could have been worse. They could have turned the drow from ebon black to snow white. 
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 18:26:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
It gets even worse considering that part of te reason behind an Orc kingdom in 4e is supposedly because someone at WoTc was concerned about how they were promoting "racism" by showing orcs as hopelessly evil.
Do we know this for a fact? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 20:23:14
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| I've suspected the same thing, ever since the short story of Drizzt and the non evil goblin slave. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 23:39:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
It gets even worse considering that part of te reason behind an Orc kingdom in 4e is supposedly because someone at WoTc was concerned about how they were promoting "racism" by showing orcs as hopelessly evil.
Do we know this for a fact?
It seemed to be the popular attitude back when the first outlines of 4E were coming out, and ti does sound like the sort of thing a pack of marketing ****s would come up with. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 15:47:08
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I agree that it does seem likely. What I was trying to point out was that there's a difference between something being likely and being a fact. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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variant
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2008 : 17:40:34
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I just finished the third book. What did they do to my Drow?
I didn't mind Selvetarm getting the axe, and I was extremely disappointed to find out Lolth helped his death along. It took away from the fact that he was miraculously killed in the first place.
I didn't mind if the undead god got wiped off the planet.
I personally thought Vhaerun stepped on Mask's toes too much and didn't care too much about his death, but I cringed when Elistraee took on some weird psuedo-gender role.
I was first just dumbfounded, shocked about Elistraee's death. Now I am seriously pissed they killed off Elistraee and warped my Drow. I want nothing to do with 4e Forgotten Realms. This is an absolute travesty. I am rewriting history.
I mean I seriously thought from what was "promised in the storyline" that this was a series that would solidify Elistraee in the Realms and the Underdark a bit more and make her a major player instead of some minor unknown goddess. The story made you root for Elistraee and her faith to win. Her death came by and slapped you in the face.
I also expected Halisstra to be redeemed. She was so much apart of War of the Spider Queen and I really expected this to give her the happy ending she didn't get before. This trilogy simply added on to the tragedy.
Also what was with the damn reactions at the game board? Elistraee acted like it was no big deal.
Also Corellon Larethian was an asshole, you can definitely tell where those two celestial elves that came to pick up Cavatina got their attitude towards the Drow and Elistraee. His attitude made me think he was playing a game behind the scenes and intentionally killed off Elistraee. Maybe he hated Elistraee because she turned her back on him to redeem the Drow? |
Edited by - variant on 12 Sep 2008 18:09:37 |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2008 : 18:08:25
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quote:
I didn't mind Selvetarm getting the axe, and I was extremely disappointed to find out Lolth helped his death along. It took away from the fact that he was miraculously killed in the first place.
I think one point of the books was to show how the Gods use mortals. Everything the mortals did, they did because a God moved them on the sava board. The wizard piece, Qarlynd, was the only one to exihibit free will. Everything else was the Gods will. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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variant
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2008 : 18:10:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
quote:
I didn't mind Selvetarm getting the axe, and I was extremely disappointed to find out Lolth helped his death along. It took away from the fact that he was miraculously killed in the first place.
I think one point of the books was to show how the Gods use mortals. Everything the mortals did, they did because a God moved them on the sava board. The wizard piece, Qarlynd, was the only one to exihibit free will. Everything else was the Gods will.
I perfectly understood that, but it took away from the snake eyes Elistraee rolled when she was on the edge of defeat. It was Elistraee's victory and the author took that away. Of course it was also Cavatina's victory because the rolled dice represented actions that was above and beyond the any of the gods' plans. |
Edited by - variant on 12 Sep 2008 18:15:27 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2008 : 18:30:54
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quote:
Originally posted by variant
I perfectly understood that, but it took away from the snake eyes Elistraee rolled when she was on the edge of defeat. It was Elistraee's victory and the author took that away.
Don't blame it entirely on the author. Remember, this is shared world fiction and if Wasbro comes to her and says "It has to end with this.", she has to write it to that ending to the best of her ability. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2008 : 18:45:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
I think one point of the books was to show how the Gods use mortals. Everything the mortals did, they did because a God moved them on the sava board. The wizard piece, Qarlynd, was the only one to exihibit free will. Everything else was the Gods will.
That doesn't fit my concept of how the gods in Faerun work. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2008 : 19:20:07
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quote:
I perfectly understood that, but it took away from the snake eyes Elistraee rolled when she was on the edge of defeat. It was Elistraee's victory and the author took that away. Of course it was also Cavatina's victory because the rolled dice represented actions that was above and beyond the any of the gods' plans.
Those snake eyes would have represented free will, had we not found out later that they were Lolths doing.
quote:
That doesn't fit my concept of how the gods in Faerun work.
I agree but, unfortunately, it's not mine, or your world. Also, it doesn't mean that there is no free will, only that the Gods will, trumps mortals will. At the end, it is implied that even Elistraee's will was trumped by the will of Correlon, and the rest of the Seldarine.
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"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2008 : 00:54:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
I agree but, unfortunately, it's not mine, or your world.
Yes it is. The "official" Realms isn't ours, but I'm OK with that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2008 : 22:53:35
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I'm OK with that too. As far as I'm concerned, they should have killed off *all* the gods and major NPCs other than Drizzt* (and maybe Elminster), and made the Realms monotheistic under Ao, who reveals his true name to be Wizbro. 
* - because you *can't* kill Drizzt; he's your main source of revenue. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 23:49:08
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| You can make your own Realms anyway you want. Heck, in my world, I killed off Correlon, so my PCs would switch to Elistraee. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 00:46:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
You can make your own Realms anyway you want. Heck, in my world, I killed off Correlon, so my PCs would switch to Elistraee.
*chukles*
In that case you might want to at least vist the Chosen.
http://www.eilistraee.com/chosen/intro.php
or short cut to
http://www.eilistraee.com/chosen/join.php if you are interested. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 04:39:21
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I am utterly speechless at finding this out.
  
I haven't read the books yet but plan to just to see how it happens. WotSQ was pretty cool, even with it's flaws, so I want to finish the story the right way.
I have no idea what direction WOtC is going with the Realms these days as I only bought a few of the 3E books (BoVD being a favorite), but if this is any indication I can safely say that I'm through with the official canon.
The Realms without Mystra or Eilistraee is not a place I want to be in. |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2008 : 21:39:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Yasraena
I have no idea what direction WOtC is going with the Realms these days as I only bought a few of the 3E books (BoVD being a favorite), but if this is any indication I can safely say that I'm through with the official canon.
Basically they are trying to make the Realms into a MMORPG clone, at least rules-wise. I like world of warcraft, and I also like the realms, for different reasons. What I DON'T like is Wotcs attempt to crossbreed the genres. That can only result in some truly horrifying hybrid. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 02:13:10
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| Does this Mean Drizzt, Jarlaxle and Tosun are now a Dark Elves? |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 03:43:13
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| Nope. As of yet, They are still drow (and likely to stay that way IMHO). |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 05:17:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
Does this Mean Drizzt, Jarlaxle and Tosun are now a Dark Elves?
It appears only Drow that had Eilistraee as patron deity, at that time, were transformed-redeemed. Which clearly removes Drizzt and likely the others. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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mnb128
Learned Scribe
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2009 : 20:06:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
Does this Mean Drizzt, Jarlaxle and Tosun are now a Dark Elves?
It appears only Drow that had Eilistraee as patron deity, at that time, were transformed-redeemed. Which clearly removes Drizzt and likely the others.
I've watched this thread since it started, but for some reason have never gotten involved. However, after seeing this same question again and again, I'll point to page 287 of Ascendancy of the Last. The question was asked, "Have all of the drow changed?" The response was, "Not all. Only those few without taint. Miyeritari, such as yourselves, and those who follow the dance. By Eilistraee's grace, those too will have transformed."
Prior to their fall, there were two nations of dark elves. They were the Miyeritari and Ilythiiri. The demon Wendonai was sent by Lolth to taint the blood of the Ilythiiri over the span of many generations. To try and make a long story short, when the Ilythiiri became the enemy of the "light" elves there was no discrimination in their retribution. The light elves attacked all dark elves, and when the dark elves were banished to the underdark as drow the Miyeritari were included, although they had been unwittingly drawn into a conflict that was not their own. After the descent, there were very few Miyeritari left having been virtually whiped out by the light elves. They then interbred with the Ilythiiri.
So, at the end of The Lady Penitent trilogy, only pure blood Miyeritari and those that have been redeamed by Eilistraee were converted to dark elves. I think it's safe to assume that Drizzt, Jarlaxle, Tosun, Liriel and the majority of drow we know are not among them. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2010 : 19:44:32
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Scroll necromancy again xD
I'm looking for information about Wendonai's taint. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Strife026
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2010 : 23:18:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
Scroll necromancy again xD
I'm looking for information about Wendonai's taint.
Wendonai's Taint refers to him breeding with the Ilythiiri elves over several generations. Basically by the time of the Descent, all Ilythiiri elves had a portion of Wendonai's blood in them, making all Ilythiiri elves "corrupted" by being of his line in some way. That is his taint, his bloodline in the elves. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 11:31:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Strife026
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
Scroll necromancy again xD
I'm looking for information about Wendonai's taint.
Wendonai's Taint refers to him breeding with the Ilythiiri elves over several generations. Basically by the time of the Descent, all Ilythiiri elves had a portion of Wendonai's blood in them, making all Ilythiiri elves "corrupted" by being of his line in some way. That is his taint, his bloodline in the elves.
I know, but, what do you think about Wendonai's children or grandchildren would be like. Which Houses have the taint and which don't (so far I only know about 2 that don't: Melarn and Xarann). |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Ascendancy of the last. Heavy spoilers
