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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Jul 2008 : 22:54:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Penknight
I have a question about a deity if someone can answer it for me, please... what'll happen to Eldath? I've always liked her.
We don't know the answer to that yet. If she doesn't die, she will almost certainly become an Exarch (probably of Silvanus). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2008 : 03:06:59
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You're welcome. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Nkoda
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2008 : 08:16:10
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| But as far as relating to characters. I mean i know this is off topic. But the dragonlance book the Sellsword has a black skinned main char yet the character on the cover of the book is white. It was confusing. |
Welcome to Jamrock |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2008 : 20:52:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Nkoda
But as far as relating to characters. I mean i know this is off topic. But the dragonlance book the Sellsword has a black skinned main char yet the character on the cover of the book is white. It was confusing.
Perhaps it was a different character (I know nothing about the book in question, btw)? I've read plenty of books that featured a character on the cover who was not the protagonist. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Nkoda
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2008 : 03:15:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Nkoda
But as far as relating to characters. I mean i know this is off topic. But the dragonlance book the Sellsword has a black skinned main char yet the character on the cover of the book is white. It was confusing.
Perhaps it was a different character (I know nothing about the book in question, btw)? I've read plenty of books that featured a character on the cover who was not the protagonist.
bald guy with a sword on the cover of a book called the sellsword. pretty sure it was just a communiaction error. but then i did read that essay by le Guin about how she had so much resistance to having a brown skinned character on a cover. |
Welcome to Jamrock |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2008 : 18:16:49
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| I have no doubt that happens, and when it does, it's a shame. Just consider that sometimes it might just be an honest mistake. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Nkoda
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2008 : 18:11:33
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| Yeah. I tend to not believe that in corporate america, but it's always a chance. |
Welcome to Jamrock |
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe
Australia
222 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2008 : 09:32:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Karkona
Who the crap authorized Lisa Smedman to kill Eilistraee, Vhaeraun, Selvetarm and Qilue?
WotC. In fact, it's likely they told her to do all that, not merely "authorize" it.
Reading that just makes me burn with hate for the noncreative garbage at WoTC who have nerfed Eilistraee in order to get rid of one of FR's more interestings deity's.
I would hazzard a guess that there were a few guys at WoTC that were never happy with the idea of a good drow goddess who liked dancing naked and have got some pretty wacko racial theories as well that is clouding their vision of the Drow in 4E FR.
I haven't read Ascendancy as it is still on order for me but seeing that one of my favourite FR deities has been "boned" [an aussie term for getting the axe] from the new realms setting, I'll be making sure that the players of D&D groups I host occasionally will be sticking to 2nd & 3rd ED material.
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Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 06:37:51
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On a somewhat different note, wouldn't it be kind of silly to assume that all the "pure blood" Miyeritari all wish to be Tel'Quessir again? Sorry, the entire idea of redemption through genetics seems to leave out this pesky little thing called "free will" and I think I'm still sore about it.
Another random musing: What do you all think the Seldarine were doing during Lolth's Silence and the Lady Penitent mess? I have my own idea (it's in the adventuring section //self promotion :P) but I wonder what everyone else thinks. |
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Xaositect
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 14:10:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Fellshot
On a somewhat different note, wouldn't it be kind of silly to assume that all the "pure blood" Miyeritari all wish to be Tel'Quessir again? Sorry, the entire idea of redemption through genetics seems to leave out this pesky little thing called "free will" and I think I'm still sore about it.
Yes! Thats exactly one of the things that annoyed me so much. Its not that they essentially removed a large chunk of variety from the Drow as a RACE, they did it without their permission. "Oh, sorry about that completely altering your identity as an individual, something you have known and connected with all your life. But look on the bright side (....), at least now you 'look' like a good person". I would ideally play a neutral Drow (when things werent so, ya know, ruined) so that might explain what Im about to say, but if I were in that situation my first instinct would be to murder any surface Elf I see for the insult of such a change and abuse of my identity and free-will.
Edit: Or instead it might explain that playing a neutral character was a mistake on my part if Im going to take that kind of approach. But I still stand by the notion that changing a person like that without their consent is a horrendous insult and not a very "good" thing to do. |
Edited by - Xaositect on 16 Jul 2008 14:13:45 |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 15:25:34
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| QUESTION: I haven't followed any of the drow-heavy or drow-specific FR novels, is it necessary to have read anything else before reading the Lady Penitent Trilogy? |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 17:01:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
QUESTION: I haven't followed any of the drow-heavy or drow-specific FR novels, is it necessary to have read anything else before reading the Lady Penitent Trilogy?
Hmm, It clearly would help to know background, but I do not believe you need to read any other book or series. There are a few characters in this series that appear in others, however if you know the history overview of those that should be all you need to know. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2008 : 17:35:33
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| Good points above regarding people being changed without their consent. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 16 Jul 2008 17:38:43 |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2008 : 20:49:54
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quote:
QUESTION: I haven't followed any of the drow-heavy or drow-specific FR novels, is it necessary to have read anything else before reading the Lady Penitent Trilogy?
Yes. Read the War of the Spider Queen series.
Elistraee and Mystra were my favorite dieties, and I'm no longer interested in reading novels that take place after their deaths.
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"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 01:16:21
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| BTW, where is the City of Hope? |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe
Australia
222 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 01:25:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
BTW, where is the City of Hope?
Next door to the City of Dreams   |
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 01:58:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
BTW, where is the City of Hope?
In the northeastern High Moor. More information about this city can be found in the novel Blackstaff. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 02:46:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Talwyn
quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
BTW, where is the City of Hope?
Next door to the City of Dreams
And all the glasses there are half-full! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 05:26:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
BTW, where is the City of Hope?
In the northeastern High Moor. More information about this city can be found in the novel Blackstaff.
Ah, they're going back to Miyeritar. Thanks. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Aelistae
Acolyte
1 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 09:54:01
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I've just finished reading Ascendency of the Last. I put it off for a while, because I over-heard snippets of what was going to happen, and I wasn't pleased.
With that said, however, I think some of those writing here have been overly critical of Lisa Smedman. The novel (and the trilogy as a whole) is pretty well written, some of the characters are interesting (Qarylnd and Leliana), and it does succeed in being quite dramatic.
The issue is I see it is not what Lisa Smedman wrote, but what she was instructed to write. Or to put it another way it's the hoop itself and not how she jumped through it that is the problem.
A lot of people have pointed out the logical inconsistencies of what happens at hey moments in the trilogy, so I won't repeat them here. What I will say is that I find the transformation of 'untainted' drow into dark elves and the complete abandonment of drow yet to be born (let alone those still living) is very troubling. I also find it strange that Eilistraee, who revered the beauty of the drow form, would somehow plan to completely transform the physical appearance of her worshippers. It seems that to kill of Eilistraee but present her with some sort of moral victory, they had first to go against a lot of what she stood for. That (for me) is the most disappointing thing. |
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Cam
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 23:07:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Nkoda
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Perhaps it was a different character (I know nothing about the book in question, btw)? I've read plenty of books that featured a character on the cover who was not the protagonist.
bald guy with a sword on the cover of a book called the sellsword. pretty sure it was just a communiaction error. but then i did read that essay by le Guin about how she had so much resistance to having a brown skinned character on a cover.
Yes, it's supposed to be the main character. Vanderjack is Ergothian, and they are a dark-skinned human culture in the Dragonlance setting. Some of them are lighter-skinned than others, but the guy on the cover (which I still really am pleased with) has entirely the wrong complexion.
Cheers,
Cam (the author of said novel) |
Managing Editor | Designer | Margaret Weis Productions |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 23:40:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Cam
Yes, it's supposed to be the main character. Vanderjack is Ergothian, and they are a dark-skinned human culture in the Dragonlance setting. Some of them are lighter-skinned than others, but the guy on the cover (which I still really am pleased with) has entirely the wrong complexion.
Cheers,
Cam (the author of said novel)
Thanks for the information. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Nkoda
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 20:21:36
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| As far as the elves and Eladrin... in the latest Eberron novel there is an encounter with the Eladrin... and they seem alot more like the mythological fey elves than the elves of previous lore. They kind of exist in a twilight realm. Interesting, to say the least. |
Welcome to Jamrock |
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Keyne
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2008 : 08:40:36
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Pretty sure it isn't the last we've seen of Eli...
1) She didn't seem to care when she conceded. Not only was it a noble sacrifice, she just seemed "meh" about the entire ordeal
2) Cavatina's soul wasn't obliterated by the Crescent Blade. The rules might've altered when Halisstra went after EliQue
3) Eli's big daddy didn't really seem to care
Halisstra was an enormous failure and wasn't even truly the star of the series in her name. "Lady Puppet" would've been more fitting... |
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IamWeasel
Acolyte
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 00:00:37
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Hello! My first post! Whooppee!
I finished this book today, and am full as many mixed feelings as everyone else.
I didn't hold any particularly "warm, fuzzy" feelings for Elistraee as many here do. It's not a disappointment to me that she died, plus I figure if it becomes necessary, some contingency can be played to bring her back.
I did like Vhaeraun, so that was unpleasant, but that was 3 books ago, I am over it now. Him missing is where I wonder if the drow are too 1 dimensional now. I suppose you could plant any deity into his place and get the same effect, but he (and later The Dark Lady) were the way the men got away from the women of Lloth. Now the men seemingly have no way to rebel. I am still unclear as to Ghaunadhaur's demise. Last I remember his avatar was chasing Naxil and he's now stuck in a maze? Shouldn't be too difficult a problem for a deity. The Ghaunadars (fanatics) can still shape change into drow, so it would make sense that he is still available to influence the drow's lives, but the 2 options (Lloth or Ghaunadhaur) just seem terribly limiting.
I read about some concerns here that the now dark elves would just be slaughtered by the drow as they tried to make it out of the Underdark and it would seem easily done without their darkvision. But they did say that there were some that were already in the Underdark issuing them forth onto the surface. Furthermore, they are no longer stuck in the Underdark by the fraerzess. Some will simply be able to teleport straight away from there.
I also would like to wade shallowly into the racial issue. Svirfeneblin are also grey, but they are considered a goodly race. That's just a small reminder, like I said, I am wading shallowly.
I liked the book and the story. I think there were two phrases that I really didn't like that just seemed out of place. I can't remember them exactly, but they both rubbed me like something a child might write. I had a small problem with Qilue and Laerel acting like simpletons from time to time. Qilue misjudging Wendonai just seemed out of place and then Laerel not having enough options to protect her while she had her in stasis. Seemed out of place, the kind of mistakes that the villains of FR novels seem to make all the time. I guess you can always level the playing field. How Halisstra bumbled into Qilue in stasis also left something to be desired.
Redemption for the whole race seems like it should still be possible. If Qilue could take Wendonai into herself and then destroy him with silver fire and he still lives, maybe that is an avenging factor for Laerel to take on at a later time. Destroy Wendonai, destroy the taint, redeem the dark elves. He lives on as Lloth's champion, there is still silver fire, so it still seems viable.
I did like Q'arlynd. He's definately no Pharaun, but he's dead, so Q'arlynd is a good substitute. Both are good examples of why only Lloth is a bad idea. Some of the men in drow society will get powerful enough to question Lloth, her preistesses and their heavy handed practices. Some option still needs to be available to them.
I'd like to have known what became of Glinz/Piri.
As for Drizzt's fate...well, many ways to go with it. He was already redeemed as far as I am concerned. Losing the fairie fire (and presumably Globes of Darkness) by becoming a dark elf kind of takes a lot of options from him. I'd prefer that he remain a drow and just assumed he was already redeemed. I can tell you this, it certainly makes me much more excited to find out by purchasing his next books. I probably would have anyway, but WOTC did their jobs and ensured that I would buy them by leaving that question out there.
4e is a real bummer for me. I don't want to learn a new set of rules. It was a lot to take in as it was. I'm semi-intelligent and I just can't retain all that information.
Some questions arose to me as I read through this thread...
What is nerfed?
What is Exarch?
What is spellplague?
What Deities are left that I like? Well, unlike my 3 previous questions I can answer that. Tymora, Beshaba, Sune, Jergal, Mask, Shar. I don't muxh care for Ilmater, but I somehow find his worshippers fascinating.
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That must be wondeful; I have no idea what it means. -Moliere |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 00:28:30
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Ghaunadhaur is alive and well. In fact, I heard that he is now a greater deity. Drow can still worship anyone they want.
Nerfed pretty much means having power taken away. In MMORPGs, for instance, they'll decide some item, monster, or class ability is too strong, so they "nerf" it. Like taking a football, deciding it's too dangerous for kids to play with, and make to it out of sponge.
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"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 00:32:53
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quote:
Originally posted by IamWeasel
What is nerfed?
What is Exarch?
What is spellplague?
The term "nerfed" come from Nerf brand weapons that are foam and non-lethal. It RPG/fiction terms, it generally means that a character/class/race/et cetera has been made less powerful.
An "Exarch" is pretty much in 4e what a demigod was in 3e. So when someone says that a deity from 3e (or before) has been nerfed and turned into an Exarch, they have been demoted and made less powerful.
The Spellplague is the the event that occurred after Cyric murdered Mystra in 1385 (last page of the Grand History of the Realms). It is also the catalyst that WotC uses to describe why everything (or almost everything) that is drastically changed in 4e is so very different than it was in 3e. I leave it up to you as to whether you think that these drastic changes are good or bad. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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IamWeasel
Acolyte
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 00:38:57
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
The Spellplague is the the event that occurred after Cyric murdered Mystra in 1385 (last page of the Grand History of the Realms). It is also the catalyst that WotC uses to describe why everything (or almost everything) that is drastically changed in 4e is so very different than it was in 3e. I leave it up to you as to whether you think that these drastic changes are good or bad.
They aren't sucking magic out of the Realms like Dragonlance did, are they? |
That must be wondeful; I have no idea what it means. -Moliere |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 01:14:54
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quote:
Originally posted by IamWeasel
They aren't sucking magic out of the Realms like Dragonlance did, are they?
No, but I suggest that you check out this scroll to learn more about the changes in the 4e Realms. I do not want to diverge too far from the topic on this scroll. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Ascendancy of the last. Heavy spoilers
