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Tamtararamtam
Acolyte
Poland
13 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 17:29:07
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Hi.
If there's a thread on FR gods in 4e, my apologies, I haven't found it.
It is not my intent to start another rant, but I'd like to know what gods made it through conversion to 4e?
I mean I've heard that Sehanine Moonbow and Selune are the same goddess, and so is with Gruumhs nad Talos. So, can we list all such merges and all deities whi did/didn't make it?
Especially the lesser ones (demigod, lesser and intermidiate), such as Red Knight, Garagos, Nobanion, Loviatar, Mask?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 19:07:50
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We don't really know yet what the status of various deities is going to be... In fact, one of the preview articles included a blurb that showed Nobanion had been downgraded from a deity to an "exarch", and that he was now little more than a powerful mortal druid. However, within hours, that part of the article was removed, because it was from an earlier draft.
So it's all up in the air until we get an official list. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 03:39:55
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm not all that up on FR 4e articles... but wasn't there some new online material scheduled for release shortly that features new info on the 4e gods in FR?
Rich said a month or two on the WizBoard in March, so expected in these last two weeks of April or in May! |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 16:19:03
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| Yeah, the Gods article that's supposedly coming down the pipeline has not arrived yet. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 17:27:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Yeah, the Gods article that's supposedly coming down the pipeline has not arrived yet.
Where is the "holdning my breath" smile?
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Tamtararamtam
Acolyte
Poland
13 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2008 : 21:19:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
We don't really know yet what the status of various deities is going to be... In fact, one of the preview articles included a blurb that showed Nobanion had been downgraded from a deity to an "exarch", and that he was now little more than a powerful mortal druid. However, within hours, that part of the article was removed, because it was from an earlier draft.
So it's all up in the air until we get an official list.
I dont' suppose anyone has a copy of that article? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2008 : 21:57:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Tamtararamtam
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
We don't really know yet what the status of various deities is going to be... In fact, one of the preview articles included a blurb that showed Nobanion had been downgraded from a deity to an "exarch", and that he was now little more than a powerful mortal druid. However, within hours, that part of the article was removed, because it was from an earlier draft.
So it's all up in the air until we get an official list.
I dont' suppose anyone has a copy of that article?
I think someone posted the info in the thread devoted to the article, which was entitled The Wailing Years. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2008 : 01:53:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Tamtararamtam
I dont' suppose anyone has a copy of that article?
You'll find it here.
The removed tidbit that Wooly referred to above is as follows:-
"Nobanion
Lord Firemane, Lord of Gulthandor
Unaligned Exarch of Silvanus
Seen as a great protector and guardian across the Vilhon Wilds, Nobanion (No-BAN-yun) appears as a great male lion of at least twice normal size. His coat gleams with the radiance of the sun, and his mane is incredibly thick and luxurious. Sometimes the Lion God's mane ignites in a nimbus of amber and golden fire, the origin of his title "Lord Firemane." At will he can sprout the wings of a gigantic eagle.
Thought to be a favored champion of Silvanus, Nobanion now rules the forested realm of Gulthandor from the druidic stronghold of Cedarsproke. Beyond Gulthandor, Lord Firemane is also honored as the titular ruler of the wemic Tenpaw tribe of the Shining Plains. Clerics of Silvanus who honor the tenets of the King of Lions are known as Roaring Avengers.
Exarchs
The exarchs are often called demigods or heroes, and many are ascended mortal servants of greater gods, brought up from the world to serve as agents of their divine masters. Many, but not all, attract worshipers of their own, and they have some ability to grant spells, but are more often simply conduits from the mortal world to the attention of the higher gods. For example, the druids of Gulthandor pay homage to the Lion God, but in reality the character's divine spells are being granted by Nobanion's patron, Silvanus. Unlike true deities, exarchs are not bound to live in Astral Dominions with their patrons. Like Nobanion, many choose to live on the Material Plane, more directly engaged in the lives of their mortal followers.
Finally, exarchs in D&D campaigns are fully intended to be defeatable by any epic-level PC strong enough to attempt it. Of course, immortal beings are not just sitting around waiting for epic-level adventurers to take their life. And should the PCs even succeed in such an endeavor, they'll surely have earned the wrath of the exarch's patron deity."
...
Note also, that one of the timeline entries concerning Nobanion, was also removed. As well as two bits from the entry on 'Turmish.'
Specifically:-
"1391 DR (Year of the Wrathful Eye)
The dark druid Zalaznar Crinios leads a great host of fell beasts to sack the forest community of Gurnth. Nobanion calls his followers to his side at Machran Spire in an effort to counter the pending invasion."
And:-
"North and west of Turmish beyond the Orsraun and Alaoreum Mountains stretches the forested realm of Gulthandor, ruled by a powerful and enigmatic druid in lion's form its followers name Nobanion."
--
"Nobanion is calling all able-bodied adventurers to his side at Machran Spire in an effort to counter the pending invasion." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Tamtararamtam
Acolyte
Poland
13 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2008 : 21:42:46
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| thx guys. |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2008 : 21:54:45
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quote:
Exarchs
The exarchs are often called demigods or heroes, and many are ascended mortal servants of greater gods, brought up from the world to serve as agents of their divine masters. Many, but not all, attract worshipers of their own, and they have some ability to grant spells, but are more often simply conduits from the mortal world to the attention of the higher gods.
This is actually one thing I really love. In the past decade I've moved FAR away from wanting to read . . . pretty much any authors interpretations of the actions of gods. I'd rather the focus be on the agents of the particular god/goddess and the actual divine being be a more mysterious force.
Of course I'd also like to see more focus on agents in general, rather than the heads of organizations, countries or whatever. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 00:10:15
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I don't mind dealing with divine agents instead of the gods themselves. And the exarch concept is good for that (though it still makes me think of 40k eldar; a different name would have been better, thinks I).
What I object to is what the original exarch column implied: that some canon deities were being downgraded into exarchs and otherwise simply near-divine mortals. The retconning is what I object to. I object to just about any form of retcon, but I especially dislike those that chuck former canon out the window (how would an exarch fight off a full-blown avatar?). I also object to this retcon, since it nerfs one of my fave Realms deities (and implies the nerfing of Lurue, who is my fave Realms deity). |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 01:18:26
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| Just to be clear Wooly, exarchs (just as demigods were in previous editions) are immortal. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 01:45:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Just to be clear Wooly, exarchs (just as demigods were in previous editions) are immortal.
Also, once upon a time folks worshiped Quasi-Deities...my favorite was Kelanen, Prince of Swords.
Strictly speaking (as much as I'm not looking forward to some of the changes) the re-organized pantheon isn't truly a retcon...the Spellplague is responsible for it all...
I hate I have to say that.  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 04:09:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Just to be clear Wooly, exarchs (just as demigods were in previous editions) are immortal.
That's fine. Like I said, I don't have a problem with the concept of exarchs. I just don't want to see deities turned into exarchs as part of the unnecessary deific pruning process. I could prolly take it if it wasn't a retcon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 15:28:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I just don't want to see deities turned into exarchs as part of the unnecessary deific pruning process.
Sorry to be "negative", but based on what I've read, that is exactly what I think is going to happen. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 17:01:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I just don't want to see deities turned into exarchs as part of the unnecessary deific pruning process.
Sorry to be "negative", but based on what I've read, that is exactly what I think is going to happen.
Oh, I know. I fully expect them to do some serious divine nerfing.
They've already gotten rid of two of my fave deities, after all, in ways that I find ridiculous. The Sellplague is, to me, a laughable idea, so full of logical and canon holes that it puts Swiss cheese to shame. And I've never liked the idea of a tripartite sun deity. Even if I did like it, going from "young and vigorous" to a totally different deity in the span of a single century is utterly unthinkable. A millenia, yes. A century, no.
Now, I'll be the first to admit I'm just working with the original version of the Wailing Years article. It's easily possible that they've totally revised their plans, and that the deities are going to stay much the same as they are. If that turns out to be the case, I will be more than happy to say I was wrong.
But, given what we saw in the exarch blurb, and the stated intention of pruning the pantheons, I don't think I will be proven wrong.
With Unther blasted off the map, that pretty much kills their pantheon. Though I don't think Mulhorand has been mentioned, it's a safe assumption that it's also been hit by Bigby's Crushing Tactical Nuke, in some form. That wipes out their deities.
And they've also discussed doing away with racial pantheons, leaving one or two deities in each and/or making them aspects of human deities.
So of the three original deity books, Demihuman Deities is pretty much wiped, and half of Powers & Pantheons is nuked. What's left in Powers & Pantheons are the Faerűnian demipowers. And that includes Nobanion.
The original release of the article said Nobanion was an exarch. It stated that exarchs were not deities, but merely servants of deities. And while some exarchs can grant spells, it also stated that most exarchs simply channel power from their superior deity. It specifically said that praying to Nobanion would get you spells from his superior, Silvanus.
Previously, Nobanion was a true deity. He granted spells himself, and did not have a superior. Hells, his avatar successfully battled Malar's avatar. And Silvanus was an ally, but nothing in the Powers & Pantheons write-up indicates any particular closeness.
Now we're being told Nobanion isn't a deity, that he's just a servant and conduit for Silvanus.
I like the exarch concept, and if had been originally implemented in the Realms, then I wouldn't have had a problem with it. But I do have a problem with the retconning of former deities into figureheads and servants. It is chucking established lore out the window, and doing so in favor of something utterly unnecessary.
And if they're doing this to one former deity, it's a safe bet they'll do it to all the other demipowers listed in Powers & Pantheons. Thus, nearly everything in that book will be wiped out. Nobanion was also one of my favorite deities. So was Finder Wyvernspur. And Lurue, too -- she's only a demipower, but she is my fave Realms deity. All of them are likely to be either gone or downgraded to exarchs.
We did not have too many deities in the Realms. What we had was a large number, but it all made sense, unlike this retcon.
The grand deific retcon is not only unnecessary, it's almost gratuitous. And it is that retcon that pisses me off.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2008 : 23:51:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I just don't want to see deities turned into exarchs as part of the unnecessary deific pruning process.
Sorry to be "negative", but based on what I've read, that is exactly what I think is going to happen.
I have a theory that they made Nobanion an exarch who lived on Toril because they wanted to make it easier for munchkin teams to kill him. Of course, I might be paranoid, but I wouldn't be surprised... |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2008 : 00:04:45
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... and that's just one reason why I'm not buying any of this Realms.New.Coke carp."
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Edited by - Jamallo Kreen on 08 Sep 2008 11:25:55 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2008 : 01:13:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
We did not have too many deities in the Realms. What we had was a large number, but it all made sense, unlike this retcon.
And, people make it sound like only the Realms had many deities. I'm pretty sure Grewhawk had the same amount, if not more. The FR only focused on one human pantheon, but Greyhawk actually had several prominent human pantheons, AND all the same demihuman and monster gods the FR had. A lot of hero-deities to keep track of, too.
I wonder if people thought the amount of deities in Greyhawk was a problem back when it was popular? Needless to say, I don't see what the problem is. I like a lot of FR demipowers too, and prefer them as actual gods, not just immortal servants of the gods. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 01 May 2008 01:15:08 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2008 : 03:31:34
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
I have a theory that they made Nobanion an exarch who lived on Toril because they wanted to make it easier for munchkin teams to kill him. Of course, I might be paranoid, but I wouldn't be surprised...
Well... I certainly can't say that was the intent with Nobanion, specifically. But it does apply to exarchs. That's part of what Sage quoted: "Finally, exarchs in D&D campaigns are fully intended to be defeatable by any epic-level PC strong enough to attempt it."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 01 May 2008 03:33:37 |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2008 : 10:29:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
We did not have too many deities in the Realms. What we had was a large number, but it all made sense, unlike this retcon.
And, people make it sound like only the Realms had many deities. I'm pretty sure Grewhawk had the same amount, if not more. The FR only focused on one human pantheon, but Greyhawk actually had several prominent human pantheons, AND all the same demihuman and monster gods the FR had. A lot of hero-deities to keep track of, too.
I wonder if people thought the amount of deities in Greyhawk was a problem back when it was popular? Needless to say, I don't see what the problem is. I like a lot of FR demipowers too, and prefer them as actual gods, not just immortal servants of the gods.
Greyhawk became unpopular?  And I missed it! lol.
IIRC, this deific nerfing operated inversely within Greyhawk. 3.0 elucidated the deities of every contributing human culture, deities who didn't make the final cut into 1st edition's contemporary, heterogeneous pantheon.
The number of deities in Greyhawk at least doubled in an effort to become, IMO, Realms-like. (The irony, I know.)
It was a true retcon; these weren't deities of yesteryear (a.k.a. dead gods) provided to flesh-out the history of Greyhawk religion but deities who'd, ahem, *always* been there. Voila!
The original Greyhawk human pantheon had possibly 25 enigmatic (read: undeveloped) gods, and it ended up with closer to 50 enigmatic gods. The newly-revealed gods also, in general, duplicated existing deities' portfolios.
Do the Realms have a lot of deities? Yes.
Are there too many? No.
Are they too powerful? Debatable.
After the Time of Troubles plot changed the mechanism of deific power, I had trouble justifying the sum of deific power floating around the continent of Faerun. I felt the ToT plot required, in story as well as in game, extensive reorg of deific power-levels based on the limiting of deific power to worshippers' numbers.
I admit to Chosen-of-Mystra fatigue syndrome (CFS). But folks obviously loved the Chosen mechanism and the Chosen themselves, and I was the only one with CFS in my group. So my treatment plan became the in-house tradition that Chosen appeared in each campaign in Fizban-like moments (e.g. Storm inquiring as to the location of a tavern's loo' before exiting stage right, Dove approaching our campfire in search of Grey Poupon before moving off into the night). And my CFS became bearable. I even purchased, read, and enjoyed Silverfall.
But does either of those issues require--let alone justify--gratuitous deicide, extensive terraforming, SuperMarioBros-esque floating turf-tuffs, and planetary collisions?
I hate to say this, Wooly, but I prefer a retcon to correct game mechanics for divinities in place of this much drama.  |
Edited by - monknwildcat on 01 May 2008 10:43:12 |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2008 : 10:49:00
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Back to your OP, Tam....
Does anybody know if Sharess made the cut? I suspect she'll be subsumed by Sune, but, IMO, she's one of those entertaining demigods Rino mentioned earlier.  |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2008 : 15:50:17
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I, personally, don't have a problem with the Exarch deal. The RetCon of it is annoying but I can work around that easy enough, though a century is a rather small amount of time to do it in.
What I can see being a decent explanation for it would be something like;
ToT to start, AO kicks the Deities out so that he can shift the Realms farther away from the Great Wheel due to too much Outsider influence on the Realms.
Enter Great Tree.
Due to the lessened Outsider influence AO had to "bleed off" some deific power (Spellplague! Cause AO don't care if a Spellplague happens, that's just crackin some eggs to make an omelette), otherwise the internal force of FR (deific power) would be more than the external force of FR (outsider power), this resulted in the Exarch status as deities power levels lessened.
Then it'd be easy enough to have a sort of;
Greater God
Lesser God
Exarch servant of God
Exarch "Hero deity"
And this post exemplifies my annoyance at the whole 4E FR debacle. That's a pretty reasonable, clean, explanation. If I can do that with very little work then I really expect MUCH more from WotC for my money. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2008 : 16:19:37
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
But does either of those issues require--let alone justify--gratuitous deicide, extensive terraforming, SuperMarioBros-esque floating turf-tuffs, and planetary collisions?
LOL, no.
Thanks for the information about Greyhawk, too. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2008 : 16:22:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well... I certainly can't say that was the intent with Nobanion, specifically. But it does apply to exarchs. That's part of what Sage quoted: "Finally, exarchs in D&D campaigns are fully intended to be defeatable by any epic-level PC strong enough to attempt it."
Indeed. However, allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment.
While deities of all levels of power are now being stressed as "defeatable" for epic level PCs, Rich did say that defeating a god (and most likely an exarch) is meant, in the game, to be the type of thing that PCs will only get to do once in a lifetime, when the circumstances are right. That is, it's not like PCs are being encouraged to slaughter deities left and right as a matter of course (although of course, if a DM wants a campaign like that, there's nothing stopping them). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2008 : 16:27:54
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Back to your OP, Tam....
Does anybody know if Sharess made the cut? I suspect she'll be subsumed by Sune, but, IMO, she's one of those entertaining demigods Rino mentioned earlier.
Haven't heard anything about Sharess yet, no. Sorry. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2008 : 18:08:25
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I agree, Shadez. Exarchs may be quite cool.
Thanks for presenting a plausible way to incorporate it! As they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat. (And me a fan of Sharess...lol).
quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
I, personally, don't have a problem with the Exarch deal. The RetCon of it is annoying but I can work around that easy enough, though a century is a rather small amount of time to do it in.
What I can see being a decent explanation for it would be something like;
ToT to start, AO kicks the Deities out so that he can shift the Realms farther away from the Great Wheel due to too much Outsider influence on the Realms.
Enter Great Tree.
Due to the lessened Outsider influence AO had to "bleed off" some deific power (Spellplague! Cause AO don't care if a Spellplague happens, that's just crackin some eggs to make an omelette), otherwise the internal force of FR (deific power) would be more than the external force of FR (outsider power), this resulted in the Exarch status as deities power levels lessened.
Then it'd be easy enough to have a sort of;
Greater God
Lesser God
Exarch servant of God
Exarch "Hero deity"
And this post exemplifies my annoyance at the whole 4E FR debacle. That's a pretty reasonable, clean, explanation. If I can do that with very little work then I really expect MUCH more from WotC for my money.
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Edited by - monknwildcat on 01 May 2008 18:18:03 |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2008 : 18:53:43
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Out of curiosity, is the PC allowed to win? And, if they do, what happens to the exarch?
Thanks!
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well... I certainly can't say that was the intent with Nobanion, specifically. But it does apply to exarchs. That's part of what Sage quoted: "Finally, exarchs in D&D campaigns are fully intended to be defeatable by any epic-level PC strong enough to attempt it."
Indeed. However, allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment.
While deities of all levels of power are now being stressed as "defeatable" for epic level PCs, Rich did say that defeating a god (and most likely an exarch) is meant, in the game, to be the type of thing that PCs will only get to do once in a lifetime, when the circumstances are right. That is, it's not like PCs are being encouraged to slaughter deities left and right as a matter of course (although of course, if a DM wants a campaign like that, there's nothing stopping them).
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2008 : 19:47:59
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Out of curiosity, is the PC allowed to win? And, if they do, what happens to the exarch?
Thanks!
Yep, the PCs are allowed to win (otherwise there wouldn't be much point in detailing the stats *g*) but as to what happens, well, this is how I'd roll;
If the exarch is particularly important to the deity then the deity may just resurrect the exarch. The PCs would have to figure out a way to prevent this or they'll have one angry exarch on their tail. (of course the deity may be resurrecting the exarch and making sure the exarch doesn't go off and get themselves killed all over again)
or
The PCs then have to deal with an angry god, the god's followers, the exarch's followers, etc
Either way it's not just a straight up fight, or at least it shouldn't be. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2008 : 21:30:37
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>>While deities of all levels of power are now being stressed as "defeatable" for epic level >>PCs, Rich did say that defeating a god (and most likely an exarch) is meant, in the game, to >>be the type of thing that PCs will only get to do once in a lifetime, when the circumstances >>are right. That is, it's not like PCs are being encouraged to slaughter deities left and >>right as a matter of course (although of course, if a DM wants a campaign like that, there's >>nothing stopping them).
Its all a setup for when they come out with the MMORPG. The Exarch's will be the raid mobs. Then you'll have the Epic NPC's that you can only single group (Szass Tam for instance).
Oh, and yes, I'm being facetious. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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4e Gods
