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barry
Acolyte
South Africa
27 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 16:13:17
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why did halaster have to die? and can he be resurected in a time of wild magic.
WOULD THE AUTHORS CONCIDER THIS PLEASE
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 16:50:14
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| If you want him back in your game. Bring him back in your game. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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JEThetford
Acolyte
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 19:00:52
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quote:
Originally posted by barry
why did halaster have to die? and can he be resurected in a time of wild magic.
WOULD THE AUTHORS CONCIDER THIS PLEASE
Who said he is dead DEAD? One thing that I have learned over the years of gaming is that there is dead and there is DEAD.
Look at the Seven Sisters.
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The only good Drow, is a dead Drow.
Aaomas Balkrim, Drow Hunter
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 20:28:38
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I doubt WotC will consider this... why should they...the S(p)ellplague happens despite much anger...
As for myself, since I still play in 1366/67 I don't worry about that too much right now |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 20:31:13
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quote:
Originally posted by JEThetford
quote:
Originally posted by barry
why did halaster have to die? and can he be resurected in a time of wild magic.
WOULD THE AUTHORS CONCIDER THIS PLEASE
Who said he is dead DEAD? One thing that I have learned over the years of gaming is that there is dead and there is DEAD.
Look at the Seven Sisters.
What do the Seven Sisters have to do with anything? I can only think of one of them having been killed, and she remained undead until her final destruction.
Who said he was dead? The novel Blackstaff, in which he died. And considering that the next novel, Blackstaff Tower, is set post-Sellplague and deals with later Blackstaffs, it's pretty much safe to assume that Khelben is and remains dead. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 05 Apr 2008 20:34:58 |
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JEThetford
Acolyte
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 20:39:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by JEThetford
quote:
Originally posted by barry
why did halaster have to die? and can he be resurected in a time of wild magic.
WOULD THE AUTHORS CONCIDER THIS PLEASE
Who said he is dead DEAD? One thing that I have learned over the years of gaming is that there is dead and there is DEAD.
Look at the Seven Sisters.
What do the Seven Sisters have to do with anything? I can only think of one of them having been killed, and she remained undead until her final destruction.
Who said he was dead? The novel Blackstaff, in which he died. And considering that the next novel, Blackstaff Tower, is set post-Sellplague and deals with later Blackstaffs, it's pretty much safe to assume that Khelben is and remains dead.
What I was intoning (rather poorly as I sit here in DC with a terrible cold) was that killing off a person does not mean that is the end of them. Energise can be contained and held for long periods to be placed in bodies down the road (not so much like a similacron but similar :) ). I know not wat Steven has in store for the Blackstaff, I shall find out when I read the next novel. |
The only good Drow, is a dead Drow.
Aaomas Balkrim, Drow Hunter
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 20:51:37
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| "This just in, Halaster Blackcloak of UnderMountain is still dead . . . back to you Jane." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 21:06:09
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You know, I had a brainfart earlier (perhaps due to my current pounding headache), and thought for a minute we were discussing Khelben, not Halaster. My bad. 
Me, I think there's plenty of ways for Halaster to come back, either whole or in part. Whether or not he does is up in the air... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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JEThetford
Acolyte
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 21:25:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You know, I had a brainfart earlier (perhaps due to my current pounding headache), and thought for a minute we were discussing Khelben, not Halaster. My bad.
Me, I think there's plenty of ways for Halaster to come back, either whole or in part. Whether or not he does is up in the air...
nope....yup....it was The Blackstaff.....yup |
The only good Drow, is a dead Drow.
Aaomas Balkrim, Drow Hunter
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 21:28:49
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| funny this, i heard his soul was shattered across the planes, so there is dead and then there is dead, wouldnt worry about blackcloack |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 22:16:48
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
funny this, i heard his soul was shattered across the planes, so there is dead and then there is dead, wouldnt worry about blackcloack
See, that to me gives enough possibility of his return: simply gather up the shards, and figure out how to put them back together. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 22:20:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
funny this, i heard his soul was shattered across the planes, so there is dead and then there is dead, wouldnt worry about blackcloack
See, that to me gives enough possibility of his return: simply gather up the shards, and figure out how to put them back together.
Piecing Halaster's shattered mind and soul back together... I suddenly have the image of a three-dimensional puzzle designed by Dali on speed... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 01:00:17
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Halaster has an existing history of conflict with the Twisted Rune. His death is a direct result of that ongoing feud. What hasn't been defined is the project that Halaster was working on that the Twisted Rune interfered with. But that doesn't mean that the cause of death wasn't tied into the ongoing history of the Realms.
Remember Ed's adage from many GenCons past to open as many [if not more] new doors as you close off.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 01:02:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
funny this, i heard his soul was shattered across the planes, so there is dead and then there is dead, wouldnt worry about blackcloack
See, that to me gives enough possibility of his return: simply gather up the shards, and figure out how to put them back together.
Let's remember too, that Ed has specifically said, in more then one reply here at Candlekeep, that although Halaster was NOT a Chosen of Mystra, we do know he is [was] something, and that something may have indicated that she did have future plans for him.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 01:17:57
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| One idea I like is that some of Halaster's shards are collected by Manshoon, and the two wind up merging into some new entity. One of the officially remaining Manshoon clones was hanging out in Undermountain, when we last knew where he was. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 01:25:17
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| A curious possibility. After all, Ed said that most of the Manshoon clones tend to follow the original Manshoon's example of having extensive fall-back plans and caches and plans set in motion. Perhaps the Manshoon clone with Halaster had planned contingencies in place throughout Undermountain, should Halaster ever die or be destroyed. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 13:47:18
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Wizards of the coast do whatever they want..That is going to be our rule from now and then..
But let's see if they will get whatever they want from these actions... |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 15:29:41
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| Honestly, what I expect is that Halaster will remain dead, and that if D&D Extreme gets around to redoing Undermountain, it will be controlled by either a mysterious mage, some unseen presence, or maybe an alliance of the Heirs. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 06 Apr 2008 15:30:16 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2008 : 16:37:26
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| I'm inclined to agree. It does seem like 4e FR is particularly geared toward introducing new elements, and mostly at the expense of removing the more established "mainstays" of the previous editions of the Realms. Halaster's demise may be an example of this. And thus, a new and virtually unknown NPC may eventually be set up to take his place through the 4e FR material. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 01:28:20
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm inclined to agree. It does seem like 4e FR is particularly geared toward introducing new elements, and mostly at the expense of removing the more established "mainstays" of the previous editions of the Realms. Halaster's demise may be an example of this.
I think that's the case--Rich Baker had a few words about Halaster's demise in his thread on the WotC boards about this (quite a few months ago), where he basically stated, "we don't want to be slavishly beholden to what has come before" (ie. Halaster and other NPCs will not be seen as "sacred cows" that will be kept in the setting no matter what).
That being said, Halaster's fate was disappointing for me, as I still saw plenty of potential for him as a character in the Realms. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 15:02:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm inclined to agree. It does seem like 4e FR is particularly geared toward introducing new elements, and mostly at the expense of removing the more established "mainstays" of the previous editions of the Realms. Halaster's demise may be an example of this.
I think that's the case--Rich Baker had a few words about Halaster's demise in his thread on the WotC boards about this (quite a few months ago), where he basically stated, "we don't want to be slavishly beholden to what has come before" (ie. Halaster and other NPCs will not be seen as "sacred cows" that will be kept in the setting no matter what).
That being said, Halaster's fate was disappointing for me, as I still saw plenty of potential for him as a character in the Realms.
Not "slavishly beholden to what has gone before"? Hah. I bet you 1000 gold Menzoberranzan and house Baenre will still be around in 6th edition... |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 15:14:31
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Probably, but the point was not that the designers are "ditching" NPCs just because they are well-established. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 16:52:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Probably, but the point was not that the designers are "ditching" NPCs just because they are well-established.
Not?
I mean, look at all the backstory that can now be dismissed. Well established means people, like the editors, have to research stuff to do their job... it's easier to ditch everything "work-intensive" and start from scratch. And judging by some errors, the editors were off playing golf or something... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 17:01:55
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
"This just in, Halaster Blackcloak of UnderMountain is still dead . . . back to you Jane."
Thanks for this. I had the same thing in mind, exactly. 
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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phal
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2008 : 07:19:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Thanks for this. I had the same thing in mind, exactly.
Steven
I sense a great disturbance in the force, as if a dozen voices were crying out, and were suddenly silenced.
Fine. They can kill the characters and community I've grown to know and love however they'd like. I can make my own sandbox. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2008 : 10:10:17
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| never had much use for blackcloak myself, but gathering up his soul shards would make for a good adventure. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 15:28:52
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I don't know.....what's worse?
Undermountain under the semi-coherent control of dozens of simulacra of a mad millennia-old wizard?
OR
Undermountain under NO controls AND haunted by the multiple ghosts/simulacra-ghosts of a mad millennia-old wizard?
Hm.... I just don't know.....
Steven
who probably wouldn't have slain Halaster himself, but there's story and adventure potential there nonetheless |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Edited by - Steven Schend on 10 Apr 2008 15:29:26 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 17:01:44
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| One thought I had was that the soul shards could merge with the layers of wards and spells... Making Undermountain itself be intelligent, instead of having a separate intelligence controlling it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 17:38:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
One thought I had was that the soul shards could merge with the layers of wards and spells... Making Undermountain itself be intelligent, instead of having a separate intelligence controlling it.
undermountain under the control of ancient spirits of dwarves singing of heroes and beer. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 18:09:15
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
One thought I had was that the soul shards could merge with the layers of wards and spells... Making Undermountain itself be intelligent, instead of having a separate intelligence controlling it.
undermountain under the control of ancient spirits of dwarves singing of heroes and beer.
Really? Beer is in control of Undermountain? cool! |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Halaster Blackcloak
Acolyte
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 08:00:00
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Greetings! Long time member, but generally too busy to post. Anyway, as is probably obvious by my screen name, I was appalled to hear that Halaster was killed, especially by something as mundane as an earthquake. 
I haven't been too happy with what they've done (officially)with Undermountain ever since the second box set, which really disappointed me. Then Skullport (the 2E sourcebook) turned Shradin into a crimson mist, then in 3E (which I hate) they turned Arcturia into a "Chondathan undead human worm that walks". Ok, I get the Chondathan part, but what in Orcus's name is an "undead human worm that walks"? Then they killed Halaster in an earthquake.
[Insert angry rumblings...] 
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Halaster Blackcloak
Creator of Undermountain
Faithful Old-School Grognard
Visit the new Back In Print Project Website:
http://www.undermountain.org/bip.html |
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The Blackcloak dead? WHY, O WHY?
