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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jan 2008 : 20:03:03
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Well, it doesn't say so directly, but it looks like the Shadow Weave is kaput.
And Elminster is still around...
Maztica is toast? Interesting...
I'm a little confused by the references to Toril's lost sibling, Abeir. And I'm assuming this is a typo:
quote:
Even the long forgotten world of Toril burned in the plague of spells, despite having been unreachable and cut off from Faerûn for tens of millennia.
I wish I wasn't too busy to read the article in depth right now... But I just had a computer blow up when I put a video card driver on it.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2008 : 22:02:31
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Okay, so I just got done reading it...
Spellscarred... Are Dragonmarks really that nifty a concept that we need to have them imported into the Realms?
Halruaa detonated? The Sea of Fallen Stars drained away? Oh, no, this is not good. 
And the editing... I don't mind the odd typo, but this one is worse than normal.
"but even in some of the most fantastic exploits of fighters, rouges"
"If fact, the Realms "
I know editing isn't always easy, and sometimes typos slip by... But "rouges"? That's just sloppy. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 30 Jan 2008 22:48:20 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2008 : 22:26:44
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I noticed the "rouge" typo, myself.
I don't think I need to state my opinion on the changes anymore. They may be good for some people, but I'm not gonna use them in MY Realms.
So yeah, much like Uzzy my overall response is a sigh. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2008 : 22:31:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm a little confused by the references to Toril's lost sibling, Abeir.
They are purposely not saying much, it seems.
Personally, I don't care for the concept of Abeir being a "lost piece" of Toril. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2008 : 22:53:37
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| I love how they keep adding fuel to my dislike of the "new" Realms. Everything I read makes it more and more unrecognizable as anything much resembling the "classic" Realms (everything pre-4e). I find myself hoping more and more that it will crash so that hopefully the rights will return to Ed and he can try and make something good out of it again. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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He left it dead, and with its head
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2008 : 23:15:13
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You know, I had guessed that the "new world" places would just displace some of the parts of the setting they didn't know what to do with, so I'm not surprised, but I was hoping that I was wrong. I had also said something about the Weave and the nature of magic being some kind of con job that Mystra was pulling, but I was actually kind of joking about that. This almost states that Mystra was misleading everyone and everything in Toril that the Weave was needed. I need to quit guessing things, because the only reason I've guessed anything right was to follow the principle of "how could this be less appealing to me," and following that train of thought.
The Spellplague is starting to really sound like Dragonlance's Greystone, i.e. a random aspect of Chaos that can be blamed for anything that doesn't have an existing origin yet. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 04:33:57
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Major LE SIGH.... words are actually failing me. I don't think any amount of bitching could help me feel better at this point. I'm just completely out of the WotC/D&D bandwagon at this point. I won't be buying D&D stuff ever again. I have enough as it is. I'm done. If I catch myself drifting towards a FLGS, I'll just buy comics, or Kobold Quarterly, if it ever makes it there.
Cheers to you all! |
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The Grumpy Celt
Acolyte
46 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 05:06:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
"but even in some of the most fantastic exploits of fighters, rouges"
The most terrible thing about 4E Realms are all those rosey, apple-like cheeks. Ya just gotta pinch them.
I read the article and I again feel this is just a post-apoco Realms that I have no interest in. I will just cobble up 4th Ed extension of the Realms that is logical and suits me.
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"It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye."
-Vecna |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 05:24:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Maztica is toast? Interesting...
I don't think Maztica is "toast" as such. It's just apparently not on Toril anymore.
Perhaps its been transposed to Abeir... and whatever came from Abeir subsumed the region that was formerly Maztica.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 31 Jan 2008 05:27:00 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 06:31:15
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Hmm, Shadow Weave appears to exist, just no longer under control of Shar. It would be accessible any any that choose that path of magic. Depending on how they write uo the changed Shadow Weave it might be Choas ad/or Evil magic or prehaps a type of magic the Shades readily use. It might even be posible the Shadow Weave is nuetral, though I believe that less likely.
As for idea that Maztica is transfered to Abeir, I quess that is posible however other announcement indicating a joining of two worlds. Thus it would appear Abeir rejoined Toril not a seperate world still out there. Of course perhaps some fragments might end up in a plane or some other way to allow characters to still visit/adventure in Maztica.
Things still to be learned for better or worst. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Sammael
Acolyte
27 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 06:50:49
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There is no Shadow Weave. Instead, former Shadow Weave users now tap directly into the energies of Shadowfell - one of the 4E planes that appears to be a mix of Shadow, Ethereal, Demiplane of Dread, and Negative Energy Plane.
BTW, after this change, I have lost all interest in the Realms. I also cannot see why Greenwood agreed to write anything for the new campaign setting book - maybe he is low on cash? |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 06:55:39
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So they changed the name or people at WotC do not talk to each other. *shrugs*
The new name though might relieve some of the complaints about how Shadow Weave survired when the Weave did not.
All in all so far what we have is BAMF (By A Magical Force) things are changed. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 07:47:05
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| I just found a FLGS that has a fantastic section on older editions. What looked like every non-setting-specific 1e and 2e book, plus a bunch of random adventures and a much smaller selection of 1e and 2e settings (Greyhawk, FR, Planescape, Spelljammer, Al-Qadim, others). I'm so happy, I now have something to spend my money on for the next several years, filling in the gaps of my collection with stuff from the era when they actually cared about what they were creating. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 07:55:12
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| I've been holding my peace, I've done my best not to let the fact that I like the Realms as they are cloud my judgement, but this does it. I don't care what Wizards of the Coast call it - this is no longer the Realms I fell in love with, and I can't find words strong enough to express how much I dislike what I read in this article. I was going to pick up the new Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, but now I must say that I can see no reason to do so. Once I've picked up Anauroch I'll probably have bought my last gaming supplement dealing with what Wizards call the Forgotten Realms. Well done! |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 09:04:40
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| More or less what you would expect from a post-apocalyptic realm. And there might even some who like it. But the more I read about it, the less it sounds like Forgotten Realms to me - no matter who's still there and who is not. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 31 Jan 2008 09:05:39 |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 09:56:07
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At least Shar didn't get everything her own way. But I really liked Elaine's Halruaa trilogy so having the whole country explode..... |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 11:37:12
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I don't know whether to or  |
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 12:29:45
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I remember a mention somewhere that Ed didn't like Maztica being added to the Forgotten Realms, originally. Maybe this new land in it's place is what Ed would have put there in the first place?
I know that I'm grasping at straws right now... trying to find something somewhere to maybe find a silver lining in this murky cloud of blithering, poorly edited drivel. I know it's not the Realms I love. It's slowly seems to be changing into "World of Wot-zi", the table top edition. The Shining South is shattered. Maztica is gone. I actually use Maztica... I'm really really getting less and less excited about this whole thing. |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 12:34:20
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quote:
Originally posted by ShepherdGunn
I remember a mention somewhere that Ed didn't like Maztica being added to the Forgotten Realms, originally. Maybe this new land in it's place is what Ed would have put there in the first place?
I'm sort of figuring that is the logic as well. It will be interesting to see what Ed would have done from a theoretical point of view, but Ed has never really been the type to say, "ignore that, lets just pretend it didn't happen," but rather does a brilliant job of rolling with the punches and incorporating things that don't quite fit right.
I would have much rather seen Maztica "Realmsified" like the Horde region was in Dragon Magazine rather than just "Spellplagued" out of existence. I'm curious to see what happens to Zhakara and Kara-Tur in this light. Morbidly curious, but curious none the less.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 12:35:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
It's the Forgotten Realms minus the Shining South and Maztica.
. . . and internal logic, and tradition, lots of gods, established NPCs, ongoing plots never resolved from 1st, 2nd, and now 3rd edition . . . |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 13:10:56
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
It's the Forgotten Realms minus the Shining South and Maztica.
. . . and internal logic, and tradition, lots of gods, established NPCs, ongoing plots never resolved from 1st, 2nd, and now 3rd edition . . .
/sarcasm ON
At least now heroes have the chance to really really REALLY shine, and none of them Chosen to steal the show.
/sarcasm OFF
If the Chosen had been doing everything (which they never have) we would've never seen any stories dealing with other folks... the death toll is immense in terms of characters that will not be around anymore.
*shrug* I'm done feeling angry and pissed. Wizards didn't just want to make money, they want to make MORE money. Sure bills, wages and all of that must be paid, but now you've also gotta satisfy the shareholders so that stocks will rise and all of the nonsense that is costing people their jobs all over the "civilized" world. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 13:21:47
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I like nothing about this article, and almost wish I hadn't read it. So I'll echo the earlier sighs.
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And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 13:26:47
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The editing hurt my eyes and I’m a person known for bad grammar.
I think WotC was designing a new campaign world then just decided to scrap the project. What to do with all the new material developed…oh lets put it in the Forgotten Realms setting!
I will give an hour of my time to read the new Realms when it comes out in August. If I like the new Realms then I will purchase it…and then purchase the 4E core books.
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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SiCK_Boy
Acolyte
Canada
40 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 14:16:48
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I've defended the 4E Realms team before, but that text was quite a deception for me too... I'll have to see how much they changed the Sea of Fallen Stars (I mean, look at new maps) before making a final judgment, but I thought the central region of the Realms would be safe from major geographical changes...
As for Maztica, since I just started reading the novels trilogy, I hope I won't become too attached to that section of the Realms.
What I find the most ridiculous is the abusive use of the magical cataclysm as a reason to change the whole world... merging two worlds, whole countries exploding, sea and mountain ranges changing shapes... it's a bit cheesy to just say: there was a catastrophe, everything changed!
I don't care much for the Weave and the Shadow Weave explanation... although it's a concept strongly implanted in Realms culture since many years, it never was really important to me... so long as magic is still working in a recognizable way, that's ok.
I would have prefered less radical geographical changes, more motivated by the 100 years time-jump than just a single cataclysmic event... for exemple, having a swamp cover four time the surface it has in 1379, and justifying it by the years and years of environment poisoning generated by a mad wizard, or stuff like that... even some mountains falling off because of dwarves and orcs wars in their deep... but the way it's done right now, it feels more and more like an easy way to just "reset" the setting...
I don't think it's done for the sake of "making more money"... never bought into that philosophy, and I still don't understand the accusations being made at WotC design team of being led by some dark money-making forces... but I think they opted for simplicity in their desire to just create new "unexplored" area in the FR. A game world having existed for over 30 years is bound to be explored to a large degree... it's now part of its nature... they should have opted to create a whole new setting instead...
Last thing that's getting more and more on my nerves about the whole thing... The changes being made, from an "in world" perspective, aren't even the result of the world's inhabitant... it makes it so that people don't have a grasp nor the control on their own world... I was thinking back about Middle Earth and the world of Tolkien... it's a world that suffered the same kind of cataclysm with the sinking of numenor... but at least, even if the event was godlike in origin, it was a reaction to men's actions and free-will... while the fate of Faerun just changed radically, by no will nor act of men (unless they release hidden information about the events leading to the death of Mystra and the unleashing of the Spellplague) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 14:57:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Maztica is toast? Interesting...
I don't think Maztica is "toast" as such. It's just apparently not on Toril anymore.
Perhaps its been transposed to Abeir... and whatever came from Abeir subsumed the region that was formerly Maztica.
Well, the article did use the word "subsume" and not "replace". Still, I agree that anything's possible at this point. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 15:05:08
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It's the use of the word "transposed" that got me thinking. The passage could suggest that parts of Abeir were transposed with parts on Toril, and those parts from Toril were shifted to Abeir. Which made me think that Maztica shifted to Abeir and whatever came to Toril subsumed the region formerly occupied by Maztica.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 15:05:38
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| Yea, pyramids where abberations receive sacrifices... how...um...original |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 15:05:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
More or less what you would expect from a post-apocalyptic realm. And there might even some who like it. But the more I read about it, the less it sounds like Forgotten Realms to me - no matter who's still there and who is not.
I still find it hard to believe that some people on the WotC forums were actually arguing that this setting isn't "post-apocalyptic". If the Spellplague isn't an example of a non-Judeo-Christian "apocalypse" (the term is primarily religion-based), I don't know what is. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2008 : 15:07:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
It's the Forgotten Realms minus the Shining South and Maztica.
I thought the Shining South was an important part of the Realms. Also, you can't argue that partially draining the Inner Sea isn't going to change things in the Heartlands of Faerun.
Maztica, I could really take or leave, but I'm just not an advocate of excising entire continents so gracelessly. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Dragon Features: Magic in the Forgotten Realms
