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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Dec 2007 : 02:07:06
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The subject of RP has come up at work, mostly because we were discussing hobbies, and I tried to explain about FR and RP. They think I'm crazy. The only RP and fantasy they understand is...well, you know.
So the question is, how do you explain what we do to someone who has never so much as read a fantasy adventure novel?
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Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness. 
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Akeri Rualuavain
Seeker
Canada
99 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2007 : 02:50:00
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Maybe explain that like interactif theater... thats what I do... Like improvisation. But the better way to explain is to make them try ;)
Can compare to mystery and murder games too... |
Sorry for my bad English, I'm french born
The courage to follow our dreams is the first step to achieve our destiny
The tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo
http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/98/Jul/gazebo.html |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2007 : 02:54:41
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Best explanation I've come up with is this:
Imagine you're an author writing a novel. You invite your buddies over to decide what the main characters are doing. Now, add in some dice rolling, pizza, drink of choice, and you're set.
When I told my wife I was into roleplaying, I bet she was a bit dismayed with all the books 
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2007 : 03:22:09
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It's a story like a TV show or a play where you make the decisions.
It's like telling jokes and stories, or the way you play a role in different social situations, but with continuity.
It's making your own art/entertainment with your friends, rather than consuming it.
It's part of the ancient tradition of oral storytelling, but collaborative.
It's like sexual roleplaying, but with a broader range of plots.
It's like the make-believe you played as children before disfunctional misanthropic puritan rationalist fantasies of adulthood told you to stop.
Depends on what reference points your colleagues have. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2007 : 03:28:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
Best explanation I've come up with is this:
Imagine you're an author writing a novel. You invite your buddies over to decide what the main characters are doing. Now, add in some dice rolling, pizza, drink of choice, and you're set.
That's the classical bad definition called "The Impossible Thing Before Breakfast" by Ron Edwards (the GNS guy).
The other classical bad definition is "acting". Acting is part of what RP is, but RP is not limited to acting.
To the O.P. take a look at these websites for a good definition to RP :
http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/theory/glossary/
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/
I won't add more because the mods have said many times that RPG design/theory discussion is not welcomed on these boards. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 08 Dec 2007 03:31:20 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2007 : 17:38:51
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| Think cops & robbers and/or cowboys & indians which were played when we were younger, take away the spacial component and add rules everyone has to use... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2007 : 18:52:33
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I also include mention of psychodrama for those who understand that concept. Player characters can act out a player's Shadow (I mean, come on! who hasn't secretly wanted to rob graves and raise undead minions to do one's bidding as part of one's plans for world conquest, hmmm?).
Years ago "60 Minutes" did an "expose" of Dungeons & Dragons, citing a few examples of head cases who had committed murder or suicide and who also happened to play D&D. I used their own statistics for harmful events and applied it to the data in the World Almanac and came to the conclusion that a D&D player was several thousand time less likely to commit suicide than a non-player.  D&D is an extremely healthy outlet for acting out fantasies which would be unacceptable in polite society (such as Thog the Barbarian wearing the same loincloth without washing it for six years -- what guy hasn't wanted to do that, eh?). I'm not arguing the merits of D&D, just offering one example of how to explain the game to some people who might consider themselves too well-educated or too "cool" to play it.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2007 : 20:54:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Think cops & robbers and/or cowboys & indians which were played when we were younger, take away the spacial component and add rules everyone has to use...
That sounds about right. Combined with the idea of some elements of childhood fantasizing if course. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2007 : 20:58:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Combined with the idea of some elements of childhood fantasizing of course.
Indeed, the basic element of role-playing is a shared imagined universe. |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2007 : 00:11:55
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So, "it's like the make-believe you played as children (before disfunctional misanthropic puritan rationalist fantasies of adulthood told you to stop)", in "a shared imagined universe" "with rules everybody has to use"?
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Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2007 : 00:19:21
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| Rp is like playing a role in a movie ... |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2007 : 01:36:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
So, it's like the make-believe you played as children in a shared imagined universe with rules everybody has to use?
Yeah (basically).
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
Rp is like playing a role in a movie ...
No (see my previous post).
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Edited by - Skeptic on 09 Dec 2007 01:42:18 |
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EvilKnight
Learned Scribe
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2007 : 02:33:16
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Like playing pretend with rules where plot directions can be decided on the outcome of dice rolls.
Mostly just people sitting around a table talking, eating, drinking, and rolling dice.
Evilknight |
Danali Index |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2007 : 04:08:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
It's a story like a TV show or a play where you make the decisions.
It's like telling jokes and stories, or the way you play a role in different social situations, but with continuity.
It's making your own art/entertainment with your friends, rather than consuming it.
It's part of the ancient tradition of oral storytelling, but collaborative.
It's like sexual roleplaying, but with a broader range of plots.
It's like the make-believe you played as children before disfunctional misanthropic puritan rationalist fantasies of adulthood told you to stop.
I love this response. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2007 : 04:11:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I'm not arguing the merits of D&D, just offering one example of how to explain the game to some people who might consider themselves too well-educated or too "cool" to play it.
On that note (education), I'm amazed at how many new things I've learned (like obsure vocabulary words) thanks to this hobby. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Nimriel
Seeker
Sweden
51 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2007 : 21:10:05
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quote:
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
Rp is like playing a role in a movie ...
No (see my previous post).
While I personally don't RP I don't belive that there are any right or wrong ways to describe it, it varies from person to person. Ok some extremes like to describe it as satanistic may be wrong, but thats besides my point. |
Edited by - Nimriel on 09 Dec 2007 21:12:47 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2007 : 21:14:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Nimriél
While I personally don't RP I don't belive that there are any right or wrong ways to describe it, it varies from person to person. Ok some extremes like to describe it as satanistic may be wrong, but thats besides my point.
Well, some argues that the Earth isn't spherical but flat, so I guess it's right to say that for some role-playing is equals to acting. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 09 Dec 2007 21:17:15 |
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Nimriel
Seeker
Sweden
51 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2007 : 21:28:40
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He didn't say it equals to acting, he sayd it was like Rp is like playing a role in a movie, not being Viggo Mortensen in the set of LotR but being Aragon in the movie. Of course that just my take.
Besides FES has some compeling evidence(photos of earth from the moon). |
Edited by - Nimriel on 09 Dec 2007 21:34:29 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 00:51:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Nimriél
While I personally don't RP I don't belive that there are any right or wrong ways to describe it, it varies from person to person. Ok some extremes like to describe it as satanistic may be wrong, but thats besides my point.
Well, some argues that the Earth isn't spherical but flat, so I guess it's right to say that for some role-playing is equals to acting.
That's quite an apposite comparison. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 01:30:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
That's quite an apposite comparison.
I was just trying to attack the common accepted idea that role-playing can't be described/definited in pretty exact terms in a funny way. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 10 Dec 2007 01:30:37 |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 12:35:55
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| I think what Skeptic is trying to say, in a not so kind way (maybe that is why such discussions aren't welcome on the board....) is that roleplaying is not like playing a part in a movie, because the actors don't write their own lines. It would be better to compare roleplaying to free form theater, than a movie. |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Nimriel
Seeker
Sweden
51 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 13:26:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
I think what Skeptic is trying to say, in a not so kind way (maybe that is why such discussions aren't welcome on the board....) is that roleplaying is not like playing a part in a movie, because the actors don't write their own lines. It would be better to compare roleplaying to free form theater, than a movie.
And what I'm trying to say is Acting and Being ina movie is two different things, you aren't an actor playing the character, you are the character. |
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Nimriel
Seeker
Sweden
51 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 13:27:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
I think what Skeptic is trying to say, in a not so kind way (maybe that is why such discussions aren't welcome on the board....) is that roleplaying is not like playing a part in a movie, because the actors don't write their own lines. It would be better to compare roleplaying to free form theater, than a movie.
And what I'm trying to say is Acting and Being in a movie is two different things, you aren't an actor playing the character, you are the character. |
Edited by - Nimriel on 10 Dec 2007 13:27:25 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 14:30:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
I think what Skeptic is trying to say, in a not so kind way (maybe that is why such discussions aren't welcome on the board....) is that roleplaying is not like playing a part in a movie, because the actors don't write their own lines. It would be better to compare roleplaying to free form theater, than a movie.
Unfortunatly, that's not so simple, because when comparing movie making to role-playing, the result is often the famous "Impossible Thing Before Breakfast".
Also, you can have role-playing without having the participants being authors of a story. Two cases :
1) Sometimes the story is already written by somebody else.
2) Simply because the result of any role-playing session is not guaranteed to be a story, i.e. having addressed a premise.
Like I said above, all you need to have role-playing is some participants sharing a imagined universe (in opposition with a board game). However, different kinds of RPG adds a different mindset on top of it, some having a lot in common with board games (that's the tricky part).
For example, you can have both a RPG and a board game where the focus is on the players guts decisions and strategies. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 10 Dec 2007 16:22:45 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 16:58:16
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If acting has nothing to do whatsoever with roleplaying, than why is "acting" mentioned a few times in the definition for roleplaying on dictionary.com?
Also, there are other types of acting besides acting in a movie...just so you all know. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 17:07:18
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Before my wife got into Roleplaying, she called it "playing house." And even though it is an oversimplification of the concept, in a way we are "playing house." However, often plot forces us to leave that house and go split some orc heads (wait, is orc no longer a politically correct race to kill? Then I meant "gnoll" heads).  |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 17:08:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
If acting has nothing to do whatsoever with roleplaying, than why is "acting" mentioned a few times in the definition for roleplaying on dictionary.com?
In a previous post, I said that acting is a component of role-playing. (But I'm not sure I would say it's a essential one)
Can you copy this defition in your post so we can discuss it ?
By the way, when I say role-playing, I'm assuming the context is a table top role-playing game (i.e. including D&D not not limited to). |
Edited by - Skeptic on 10 Dec 2007 17:14:45 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 17:48:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
In a previous post, I said that acting is a component of role-playing. (But I'm not sure I would say it's a essential one)
Can you copy this defition in your post so we can discuss it ?
By the way, when I say role-playing, I'm assuming the context is a table top role-playing game (i.e. including D&D not not limited to).
But the term "roleplaying game" must have come from somewhere.
The definition can be found on dictionary.com. I'm really not inclined to debate the topic any further, because I don't want to, and because it's already very close to the banned topic of "What type of gaming constitutes 'real' D&D?" |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 10 Dec 2007 18:30:06 |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 19:49:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I'm not arguing the merits of D&D, just offering one example of how to explain the game to some people who might consider themselves too well-educated or too "cool" to play it.
On that note (education), I'm amazed at how many new things I've learned (like obsure vocabulary words) thanks to this hobby.
Darn tootin! From reading FR novels I've learned the correct pronunciation of several words which I had long mis-pronounced, and also learned the correct grammatical use of a couple (which I looked up in a dictionary).
Need I say that one learns a VAST amount of Medieval history by preparing games or researching a good background for a character? (AD&D's Unearthed Arcana appendix taught me more about polearms and their nomenclature than almost anyone else I know.)
But should D&D be described as "educational" to non-gamers? (To their parents, maybe, but to them...?)
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 19:54:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
But should D&D be described as "educational" to non-gamers? (To their parents, maybe, but to them...?)
Great question. I don't think so, personally, because calling a game "educational" implies that there's another agenda behind it other than simply having fun (and, IMO, implies that "just having fun" simply isn't a valuable use of time). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 20:00:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great question. I don't think so, personally, because calling a game "educational" implies that there's another agenda behind it other than simply having fun (and, IMO, implies that "just having fun" simply isn't a valuable use of time).
I agree, the purpose of games (in general) is to have fun. I learned English partially because of D&D, but that was never the purpose.
Btw..
Saying that the purpose of a game is fun shouldn't be confused with identifying the goal of a particular game.
The goal of chess is to put the adversary in a check-mate position, the goal of Monopoly is to be rich enough to make the others agree that the game is over (no one really play it up to the end ), etc.
Of course, identifying to goal of a role-playing game seems more difficult...
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Edited by - Skeptic on 10 Dec 2007 20:07:35 |
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Topic |
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How do you explain RP?
