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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 21:46:10
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As any real Liriel fan knows, she is now a priest of Mystra. The same Mystra that's getting killed off. What will happen to our favourite drow princess?! She had finally achieved a happy ending of a sort, and now this!
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If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 22:02:12
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
As any real Liriel fan knows, she is now a priest of Mystra. The same Mystra that's getting killed off. What will happen to our favourite drow princess?! She had finally achieved a happy ending of a sort, and now this!
I know.
But alas, we can only speculate as to what will happen to her. Not something I'm in the mood to do, really...but I will say that I think Liriel is resilient enough that she wouldn't be utterly "destroyed" just because Mystra dies.
Not that I'll be incorporating that change into *MY* Realms, of course. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 22:13:00
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| I agree with you, Rino! Liriel is, first of all, a survivor. She have the endurance to survive her father, Arach-Tinilit, Shakti, and the death of Fyodor... It will not the death of a goddess that will put her down, IMO. I think that she could go to worship Eilistrae (a rational move), or focus more in her thief abilities... |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 22:14:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
Liriel is, first of all, a survivor.
Exactly, I don't think she's the type to "break" easily. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Akeri Rualuavain
Seeker
Canada
99 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 22:23:55
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| I have the same opion. She got to far to be destroyed by that. She just ganna change her Allegence one again. But it is difficult to specalutate about that because the new "magic" is just speculation for now... |
Sorry for my bad English, I'm french born
The courage to follow our dreams is the first step to achieve our destiny
The tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo
http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/98/Jul/gazebo.html |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 22:57:57
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| That does remind me that I'll have to find an interesting role for her in my alternate non-4th edition Realms . . . I don't picture it being her style to have any kind of "official" standing in the church other than just being a free agent, but I'm sure she'll end up doing something fairly important . . . hm . . . must cogitate. |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 23:08:10
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In my Realms, I mantain her with the hatran. This create some interesting plots to my Unapprocheable East campaign! 
Talking about this, I need to send you a PM about our little project, Knight! Wait for a message until tomorrow.  |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 23:20:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
I agree with you, Rino! Liriel is, first of all, a survivor. She have the endurance to survive her father, Arach-Tinilit, Shakti, and the death of Fyodor... It will not the death of a goddess that will put her down, IMO. I think that she could go to worship Eilistrae (a rational move), or focus more in her thief abilities...
Except we still are not certain Eilistraee will survive, after all those two her mother and her, agreed to a game of death of one of them. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Herkles
Seeker
82 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 23:28:08
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| it is possible that mystra may come back in a different form and reestablish the weave, it is possible. she did die before and have someone else take her job over. though i do think that liriel will survive, she is first and foremost a survivor though without magic it might be a bit trickier. I do hope that eilistraee lives, i love drow and lolth, but i want an alternative to lolth to be around, one of the reasons why i like vhearaun. |
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Akeri Rualuavain
Seeker
Canada
99 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 23:30:59
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| I had to admit that I would gladely prefere Eelistrae to stay around. She is one of my favorite goddess... |
Sorry for my bad English, I'm french born
The courage to follow our dreams is the first step to achieve our destiny
The tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo
http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/98/Jul/gazebo.html |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 23:35:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Herkles
it is possible that mystra may come back in a different form and reestablish the weave, it is possible. she did die before and have someone else take her job over.
As I just mentioned in another thread, that is unlikely since the designers have stated that they don't want another Mystra or Mystra-type character in the Realms (in other words--they thought Mystra as a concept was a liability to the setting). They killed off Mystra because they truly want to be rid of her, and they don't want her to be replaced with a similar character, either.
And just for the record, I do NOT agree that Mystra is a problem character. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 23:39:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Herkles
it is possible that mystra may come back in a different form and reestablish the weave, it is possible. she did die before and have someone else take her job over. though i do think that liriel will survive, she is first and foremost a survivor though without magic it might be a bit trickier. I do hope that eilistraee lives, i love drow and lolth, but i want an alternative to lolth to be around, one of the reasons why i like vhearaun.
I find this a little dificult to happen, fellow scribe. Let me quote fair Rino, about this matter:
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Because Rich Baker has stated (again, on the WotC boards) that he and the other designers had come to see Mystra as a liability to the setting--or at least, they felt she was perceived by customers as a liability to the setting. So killing Mystra off would be pointless if they were just going to replace her with yet another Mystra! It wouldn't solve the problem that they thought was there.
Heh! Rino beat me in the post! It´s too bad to have a poor Initiative mod. 
quote:
Originally posted by Akeri Rualuavain
I had to admit that I would gladely prefere Eelistrae to stay around. She is one of my favorite goddess...
Agree. She´s one of my favorites, too. I just hope that she survive the 4th Edition... |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
Edited by - Chosen of Moradin on 22 Nov 2007 23:42:37 |
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Akeri Rualuavain
Seeker
Canada
99 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 23:41:31
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| Even then, i'm really not shure i'm gonna play at all... The 4e edition does not interested me a lot for the moment... |
Sorry for my bad English, I'm french born
The courage to follow our dreams is the first step to achieve our destiny
The tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo
http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/98/Jul/gazebo.html |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 01:00:02
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The only way I will stomach the death of Mystra is if they give Magic and all of her portfolio back to Selune. After all, Mystra was born when a piece of Selune was shredded away by Shar... Selune/Mystra seem quite the same in temperament/goals. Selune has also taken a backseat for quite a while too.
Basically, I could survive the Realms without Cyric/Mystra (as for Kelemvor I like him where he is now... took a while to warm up to him but LN is definitely better than LE or NE for a god of death, if you think of it...) Of course, if they want to do away with him and give all his portfolios to Osiris, I'd be fine with that too. |
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monch9
Seeker
Poland
67 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 10:21:43
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Rumor has it that Corellon might get some of Mystra's portfolio. I think Liriel would pretty much slide in. (That is if you're into 4e). |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 10:34:51
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quote:
Originally posted by monch9
Rumor has it that Corellon might get some of Mystra's portfolio. I think Liriel would pretty much slide in. (That is if you're into 4e).
Well there was something said about Corellon gettng followers from other races and he currently holds Elven magic. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 12:33:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
The only way I will stomach the death of Mystra is if they give Magic and all of her portfolio back to Selune. After all, Mystra was born when a piece of Selune was shredded away by Shar... Selune/Mystra seem quite the same in temperament/goals. Selune has also taken a backseat for quite a while too.
This will be interesting. Having the moon goddes as the goddess of magic will be a good thing. And this is a little similar with some of our cultures, that portrayed the goddess of moon as the goddess of magic, too.
quote:
Basically, I could survive the Realms without Cyric/Mystra (as for Kelemvor I like him where he is now... took a while to warm up to him but LN is definitely better than LE or NE for a god of death, if you think of it...) Of course, if they want to do away with him and give all his portfolios to Osiris, I'd be fine with that too.
Yeah, I think that I can survive without these two, too. I´m one of those that don´t like too much of the ToT changes, concerning these mortal-that-became-gods. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Chataro
Learned Scribe
Singapore
114 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 16:45:08
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| I'm not a real liriel fan so I don't know. How did you all know that she is now a priest of Mystra? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 16:49:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
I'm not a real liriel fan so I don't know. How did you all know that she is now a priest of Mystra?
It's in the Best of Elaine anthology. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 16:50:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
I'm not a real liriel fan so I don't know. How did you all know that she is now a priest of Mystra?
It's in the Best of Elaine anthology. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 17:03:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
I'm not a real liriel fan so I don't know. How did you all know that she is now a priest of Mystra?
It's in the short story "Answered Prayers," in Best of the Realms III.
Edit: Ah, beaten to it. Should've guessed. |
Edited by - TobyKikami on 23 Nov 2007 17:03:59 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 17:14:04
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| Well, unles someone changed it, she is only a very low-key priestess, as I would assume she simply converted from Lolth (insert any appropriate deity) to whatever came afterwards. The death of a deity does not necessarily mean that the priests die too, of course. I would be more concerned about the effects of the Spellplague, as this will, as has been canonized already, result in a brain-meltdown amongst thousands of FR wizards. And she is much more a wizard than anything else. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 23 Nov 2007 17:15:01 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 17:37:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Well, unles someone changed it, she is only a very low-key priestess, as I would assume she simply converted from Lolth (insert any appropriate deity) to whatever came afterwards. The death of a deity does not necessarily mean that the priests die too, of course. I would be more concerned about the effects of the Spellplague, as this will, as has been canonized already, result in a brain-meltdown amongst thousands of FR wizards. And she is much more a wizard than anything else.
Three levels Cleric was best interpertation for 3.X, she became fallen when she gave alliegence to the Dark Maiden as Patron deity. She however never went though an atonement to become a Priestess of Eilistraee. So she has already spent time without divine spells.
Though with the Weave gone any spell casting clearly is changed. Which clearly should effect her in some way. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 17:43:38
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Well, given that . . . (Spoilers)
Liriel managed to return a creature from the dead in the short story in question, I'd say that she has taken her devotion to Mystra a bit more seriously than her rudimentary training in Lolth's faith. |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 17:55:42
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Interesting. I've not followed up on 4E and such; can anyone give me a quick summary about the gods (in PM if it's too off-topic for this thread)? Also--
quote:
Because Rich Baker has stated (again, on the WotC boards) that he and the other designers had come to see Mystra as a liability to the setting--or at least, they felt she was perceived by customers as a liability to the setting.
Really? Did they give a reason as to why they see it that way?
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Well, given that . . . (Spoilers)
Liriel managed to return a creature from the dead in the short story in question, I'd say that she has taken her devotion to Mystra a bit more seriously than her rudimentary training in Lolth's faith.
Well, to be sure, Liriel did accomplish things a novice priestess of Lolth shouldn't be able to before - like becoming a sort-of-like Chosen for a little while - and also brought Fyodor back to his body by dancing to Elistraee even though she never became a priestess of the Dark Maiden. |
Edited by - Karzak on 23 Nov 2007 17:57:26 |
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Veldrin Laervain
Acolyte
Canada
28 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 02:38:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Akeri Rualuavain
I had to admit that I would gladely prefere Eelistrae to stay around. She is one of my favorite goddess...
She's my favorite godess in every realms of donjons and dragons, because she offer an alternative to the Drow, who were not created by Lloth but star later, after Corelon start dating her, and after exile her from the elven patheon. Eilistraee is something special for the Drow. I realy don't see the FR without her.
quote:
The only way I will stomach the death of Mystra is if they give Magic and all of her portfolio back to Selune. After all, Mystra was born when a piece of Selune was shredded away by Shar... Selune/Mystra seem quite the same in
That could be a great idea. I realy like Selune (and Shar) they are my favorite normal pantheon goddess, juste after Eilistraee. |
Destiny is as great as our choice.
A situation will always have two side, a bad and a good.
May the song of the Dark Maiden guide the step of your life's dance |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 03:46:03
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| But, unless the designers have misrepresented themselves or been extremely unclear in what they are stating, they do not want a deity to have any control over magic. They don't want any deity to have purview over magic, because they feel that somehow this causes problems. You may have deities that have some overlapping interest in magic, like Corellon and Selune, but I don't think that you will actually have a god of magic, if there is any kind of consistency between what they have stated to be their logic and what they are doing. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 03:53:11
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| Who said design team was clear on redesign? |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 14:56:40
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| She returned someone/-thing from the dead? Heck, that's a bumper 6 more cleric levels on top of her other stuff. Puts her into the epics alright. Well, well ... |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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nb_nmare
Acolyte
United Kingdom
32 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 16:30:05
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It's been established on more than one occasion that, in the Forgotten Realms at least, gods sometimes perform miracles and grant abilities that would normally be beyond the powers of the worshipper(s) present. Another example is in Shadowstorm, where Lathander cures an entire village of disease.
Of course there's no rule for such miracles, but like I said in another recent thread, just because something isn't represented by a rule doesn't mean it doesn't exist in the setting . The DM could easily chose to allow some random miracle to occur (although it doesn't neccessary have to benefit the PCs).
However, I would be hestitant in allowing more than one such miracle to occur in a single campaign, unless that campaign specifically focuses on divine goings-on. |
Edited by - nb_nmare on 24 Nov 2007 16:36:49 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2007 : 01:31:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
quote:
Because Rich Baker has stated (again, on the WotC boards) that he and the other designers had come to see Mystra as a liability to the setting--or at least, they felt she was perceived by customers as a liability to the setting.
Really? Did they give a reason as to why they see it that way?
Well, going by the tone of their comments (such as calling the Chosen of Mystra "omnipotent forces for good") the designers seem to agree with people who complain about Mystra and her followers dominating the setting and being too powerful, too good, and inclined to take the spotlight off PCs (of course, if that happens it's the fault of the DM, not the characters).
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Liriel fans, we've got trouble!
