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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 00:32:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Meh. Attitudes may change on 4E and the new Realms, but I don't believe they will change overmuch. If we had 6 sourcebooks come out between the release and next August, I think that they would change a lot more easily than 6 articles or so.
I'm not sure that's an opinion that can be properly defended only a month-and-a-half after the release of the FRCG. Certainly, there are Realms fans that I know of, both locally and internationally, who are curious enough about the post-Spellplague Realms but either lack the time and/or funds to invest in the FRCG at the moment. Alternatively, there are those who like what they read about the 4e Realms, but are quite ready to switch their campaigns over to the post-Spellplague because their current campaigns are set in pre-4e material.
So, to me at least, leaving the poll open until August '09 provides the opportunity for those falling into the categories above to be properly considered. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - The Sage on 03 Oct 2008 00:34:07 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 01:02:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Dooly Pwent
2. A fresh start means a chance to hear/read about new heroes. Don't get me wrong. My heart shall always have a place for many a timeless hero (Rest well good rogue Volo. We hardly knew ye) that the old edition brought to light. But looking at it, they always seemed to take the spotlight more often than the smaller heroes we hardly hear about. Such a change now gives us a chance to see new legends be born and grow as their predecesors had done.
Okay, I'm not going to rant about this but I do want to point something out. Of the 200+ novels set in the realms, 20 were about Drizzt and even less were written about Elminster and the Chosen. So 60% of the novels are written about the smaller heroes. How is that hogging the spotlight. Unless you're just looking at the books that cracked the NY Times Bestseller list. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 01:04:21
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Meh. Attitudes may change on 4E and the new Realms, but I don't believe they will change overmuch. If we had 6 sourcebooks come out between the release and next August, I think that they would change a lot more easily than 6 articles or so.
I'm not sure that's an opinion that can be properly defended only a month-and-a-half after the release of the FRCG. Certainly, there are Realms fans that I know of, both locally and internationally, who are curious enough about the post-Spellplague Realms but either lack the time and/or funds to invest in the FRCG at the moment. Alternatively, there are those who like what they read about the 4e Realms, but are quite ready to switch their campaigns over to the post-Spellplague because their current campaigns are set in pre-4e material.
So, to me at least, leaving the poll open until August '09 provides the opportunity for those falling into the categories above to be properly considered.
Agreed Sage, it is an opinion that is poorly defended. I also help that the Realms sells well and is here long after my hair goes gray. I just can't help being a bit pessimistic about this. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36912 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 01:09:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Dooly Pwent
2. A fresh start means a chance to hear/read about new heroes. Don't get me wrong. My heart shall always have a place for many a timeless hero (Rest well good rogue Volo. We hardly knew ye) that the old edition brought to light. But looking at it, they always seemed to take the spotlight more often than the smaller heroes we hardly hear about. Such a change now gives us a chance to see new legends be born and grow as their predecesors had done.
We didn't need an RSE or a timejump to do this, though. There was always plenty of room to intro new heroes. Heck, a lot of authors continued to do it right up until the end of 3.x. Even Cale is a fairly new character, compared to some of the other major characters of the setting. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 01:12:09
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| Not to mention that many of the "one-off" novels (the Classes series, the Dungeons series) featured new characters. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 01:25:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Agreed Sage, it is an opinion that is poorly defended. I also help that the Realms sells well and is here long after my hair goes gray. I just can't help being a bit pessimistic about this.
Aye.
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply that you poorly defended the opinion. Rather, I'm saying that it can't be properly defend at this time. Six months later, after the release, I'd start looking at what opinions are like on the 4e Realms and drawing conclusions from that in order to determine how the community, in general, feels about it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 03 Oct 2008 01:25:58 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
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Baragon Geddarm
Acolyte
13 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 06:37:42
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Aye.
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply that you poorly defended the opinion. Rather, I'm saying that it can't be properly defend at this time. Six months later, after the release, I'd start looking at what opinions are like on the 4e Realms and drawing conclusions from that in order to determine how the community, in general, feels about it.
Well, first post in a new home, might as well start it off in an opinion poll as it were.
I'd have to agree with you Sage. I think it will take some time to see how the new Realms will flesh out before making a final call on it. I'll admit that I'm curious and in so, bought both books. So far, I'm not as overly impressed as I'd hoped, but not horribly disappointed either. It's a start I guess.
But I also think it may be more than 6 months before we see anything new on the Realms save novels (Which may be enough. Who knows).
Till at least February (Or March), there's nothing new planned for Realms book releases (In terms of game product). I think Arcane Power comes out in March and all the previews I've seen do not show a new Realms sourcebook.
But maybe they'll surprise us. Who knows.
quote:
Originally posted by Dooly Pwent
2. A fresh start means a chance to hear/read about new heroes. Don't get me wrong. My heart shall always have a place for many a timeless hero (Rest well good rogue Volo. We hardly knew ye) that the old edition brought to light. But looking at it, they always seemed to take the spotlight more often than the smaller heroes we hardly hear about. Such a change now gives us a chance to see new legends be born and grow as their predecessors had done.
Sorry chum, but I'm going to have to agree with everyone else here. There are quite a number of novels that deal with characters other than the big players. More so than not I believe. So your argument here seems a bit of a moot point. The Sembia series for starters (Just started in on that one myself) |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 08:41:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Baragon Geddarm
Till at least February (Or March), there's nothing new planned for Realms book releases (In terms of game product). I think Arcane Power comes out in March and all the previews I've seen do not show a new Realms sourcebook.
But maybe they'll surprise us. Who knows.
As it has been pointed out many times, there will be no more Realms books. The FRCG, the FRPG and a adventure is all we will get. Further lore and rules will be delivered by DDI articles. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Baragon Geddarm
Acolyte
13 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 12:31:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
As it has been pointed out many times, there will be no more Realms books. The FRCG, the FRPG and a adventure is all we will get. Further lore and rules will be delivered by DDI articles.
I suppose I must be living in a hole to have missed that.
Well, now WotC has my ire regarding the new Realms. At least regarding how they'll be marketing/distributing it. |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 12:46:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
quote:
Originally posted by Baragon Geddarm
...
But maybe they'll surprise us. Who knows.
As it has been pointed out many times, there will be no more Realms books. The FRCG, the FRPG and a adventure is all we will get. Further lore and rules will be delivered by DDI articles.
"Maybe" and "surprise" aren't actually effectively answered by absolutism.
There are no additional Realms books (on the gaming side) scheduled for right now. Last we heard, there are no additional Realms books (on the gaming side) planned. But even 2009 planning hasn't completely wrapped up, and after 2009, things are even hazier.
Market reaction always trumps pre-planning. Market reaction is measured mostly in strength of sales, but also in measurable metrics like focus group studies, professionally designed and implemented surveys, and direct fan feedback in the form of politely worded, reasonably toned messages clearly grounded in familiarity with the product on sale (not with antecedent products, with the product on sale).
But mostly its strength of sales. If the Realms books (on the gaming side) sell well, especially in comparison to antecedent products or to similar products (both those produced in house, such as the scheduled Eberron material and other campaign settings further out, and those produced by industry partners and competitors), then it's reasonable to expect that plans will change.
They always do.
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My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 14:03:06
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Um. Its an economic reason why they aren't going to print more sourcebooks. Simply enough, they weren't selling well enough to justify the cost. Not for the Realms, not for Eberron.
Sure, there may be a few one off sourcebooks, for big occassions. (I still want to see RSE's handled with a big sourcebook with information for playing through it, in combination with novels) But I seriously doubt there will be many.
Besides, the subscription model is far more economically viable. Publish one 'Faiths of Faerun' article a month, have people pay $7.99 each month for access, times that by x amount of people who subscribe, and you're making huge profits, each and every month. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36912 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 14:24:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Um. Its an economic reason why they aren't going to print more sourcebooks. Simply enough, they weren't selling well enough to justify the cost. Not for the Realms, not for Eberron.
Have you any numbers to back that up? I was under the impression it was more a factor of how much profit they wanted to make, as opposed to how much was actually made. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Baragon Geddarm
Acolyte
13 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 15:20:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
"Maybe" and "surprise" aren't actually effectively answered by absolutism.
There are no additional Realms books (on the gaming side) scheduled for right now. Last we heard, there are no additional Realms books (on the gaming side) planned. But even 2009 planning hasn't completely wrapped up, and after 2009, things are even hazier.
That's what I was originally thinking and, to some extent, still hope for. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 16:15:35
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It's all well and good to assume that WOTC might print more sourcebooks but at this time, there is no info that that is the case and it was only two months ago, barely, at Gencon, when they repeated the "Three books a setting, then move on to a new setting." So, unless someone has some recent replies that have since come out after Gencon, it is proper to say that WOTC will not be printing any more FR sourcebooks except through novels and the electronic material.
People can claim all they want that this isn't true but please supply the replies that back up your statements, don't assume.
Edit: As for printed material for this year, you won't see any more FR printed material because WOTC prints their catalog and creates their material months before it is released to the public, so the rest of this years material is already scheduled unless something grand comes along, like the Grand Hist, and they fit it in as a rush job. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 03 Oct 2008 16:27:25 |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 16:43:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
...it is proper to say that WOTC will not be printing any more FR sourcebooks except through novels and the electronic material.
People can claim all they want that this isn't true but please supply the replies that back up your statements, don't assume.
Who said that wasn't true? I'm just saying never say never, and provided what I think are reasonable reasons not to.
quote:
As for printed material for this year, you won't see any more FR printed material because WOTC prints their catalog and creates their material months before it is released to the public...
Sometimes years! Mainline publishing is a lot of great things, but being a quick and agile beastie ain't one of 'em!
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My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 17:17:21
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You are and yes, people can never say never unless some of you can supply recent posts saying differently, as I asked. Otherwise, people can say never say never because WOTC has said this themselves, again, less ya can supply differently. To claim that people shouldn't, and you are saying this, repeat what WOTC has said more then once for the past year, is pretty insane.
So, please stop telling people to not repeat what WOTC has said, again, unless you, or anyone else, can supply different replies stating differently. Otherwise, we'll continue to say never say never because WOTC has done so. If WOTC changes their mind and issue something new, then we'll repeat that new info but that has not happened yet, as far as I've seen.
Your beliefs might be reasonable to you but to some of us, we believe what WOTC has told us. So to claim that WOTC might decide something different is all well and good but it isn't true, especially since they said it less then a month or two ago and thus we WON'T be getting any new FR physically printed material this year, even though you kind of did claim that in your earlier post and for that matter, we won't be getting any next year either because as I've said a few times now in these past two posts, WOTC has SAID that this isn't going to happen. Again, unless you have a recent statement that is different then what they said at Gencon, etc.
Now, that said, I'm done with this debate.
quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
Who said that wasn't true? I'm just saying never say never, and provided what I think are reasonable reasons not to.
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 03 Oct 2008 17:20:37 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2008 : 19:37:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Um. Its an economic reason why they aren't going to print more sourcebooks. Simply enough, they weren't selling well enough to justify the cost. Not for the Realms, not for Eberron.
Have you any numbers to back that up? I was under the impression it was more a factor of how much profit they wanted to make, as opposed to how much was actually made.
Its a matter of apples and oranges, IMHO.
To TSR, and even WotC, the sales figures were quite good; for a mega-corporation like Hasbro, not so much.
The numbers haven't changed, its the size of the company looking at them that has. A million dollars is 'chump change' to them, so they don't really see their D&D market as sufficiently profitable. Now, you take a MUCH smaller company like Paizo, and they would be just tickled pink by the kinds of numbers that the FR 3e books were selling.
Therein lies the rub - we have gone from being customers to slices on a piechart, and our little slice just isn't looking appetizing to the shareholders anymore. 
The best thing that Hasbro could do for D&D is license the settings (and perhaps even the game system) out to 3rd parties, who would be more then happy with the sales figures. Ergo, the little companies all make money, and at the same time they help grow Hasbro's IP.
This economic principle works with governments as well as corporations - eventually the organization itself becomes too 'top-heavy', and the infra-structure can no longer support it.
But now I'm going off on a political tangent.....  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Oct 2008 19:39:14 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2008 : 18:51:21
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| Okay, I pronounce this poll closed, on this, its one-year advent. I have another poll HERE to measure your satisfaction with the 4e FRCG. If you would like to have the attached scroll unlocked (the poll itself is not locked), please PM our moderators. I will probably do another poll to measure the overall satisfaction with all 4e Realms products (FRCG, FRPG, Scepter Tower of Spellgard, and the Realms-related articles in DDi). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 10 Oct 2008 18:54:08 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2008 : 20:02:05
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Okay, I pronounce this poll closed, on this, its one-year advent. I have another poll HERE to measure your satisfaction with the 4e FRCG. If you would like to have the attached scroll unlocked (the poll itself is not locked), please PM our moderators. I will probably do another poll to measure the overall satisfaction with all 4e Realms products (FRCG, FRPG, Scepter Tower of Spellgard, and the Realms-related articles in DDi).
why? on this site, for a while at least, you're going to have the same answers my friend.  |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2008 : 21:08:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Um. Its an economic reason why they aren't going to print more sourcebooks. Simply enough, they weren't selling well enough to justify the cost. Not for the Realms, not for Eberron.
Have you any numbers to back that up? I was under the impression it was more a factor of how much profit they wanted to make, as opposed to how much was actually made.
Its a matter of apples and oranges, IMHO.
To TSR, and even WotC, the sales figures were quite good; for a mega-corporation like Hasbro, not so much.
The numbers haven't changed, its the size of the company looking at them that has. A million dollars is 'chump change' to them, so they don't really see their D&D market as sufficiently profitable. Now, you take a MUCH smaller company like Paizo, and they would be just tickled pink by the kinds of numbers that the FR 3e books were selling.
Therein lies the rub - we have gone from being customers to slices on a piechart, and our little slice just isn't looking appetizing to the shareholders anymore.
how do you come up with numbers on this Markustay? everything I have attempted to find, indicated that WOTC does not post or share their sales figures.
Any stats? news articles? facts? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2008 : 00:49:00
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Okay, I pronounce this poll closed, on this, its one-year advent.
Would you like me to seal the scroll as well, or would you rather it be left open? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 12 Oct 2008 01:02:38 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2008 : 19:56:56
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Okay, I pronounce this poll closed, on this, its one-year advent.
Would you like me to seal the scroll as well, or would you rather it be left open?
Yes please. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - The Sage on 12 Oct 2008 01:04:23 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36912 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2008 : 22:19:21
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| I'm assuming that "see the scroll" meant "seal the scroll". If I'm wrong, please PM me and I'll reopen it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36912 Posts |
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The "New" Realms of 4e
Topic Locked
