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 Ideal party for Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition?
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
520 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2024 :  04:23:57  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I was wondering if anyone has played this. If so? Any idea what I should go with? For the record, I'm playing a Good-aligned/heroic party. I also heard this version has kits for classes, unlike the original (which I never got to play).

For the first character, I was thinking a Paladin, for starters, since I heard there is a Holy Avenger in this game. Which kit, I'm torn on that. Might potentially be my party's tank.

Second character, I was thinking either a Berserker (likely a Dwarf) for melee damage or a Dwarven Defender as a tank if the pally isn't such.

Third, I'm thinking an Archer (Ranger kit) for ranged support.

Fourth, I was eyeing a Cleric, since I heard they are very useful in this game.

Fifth, I was thinking a Bard, possibly a Skald. Mainly use magic and music.

Finally, I heard a multiclass Thief/Mage would potentially work. I also heard scrolls were scarce. This one would be my utility character and possibly sling spells around.

Could that party work well? My main concern is arcane spellcasting, whether I could have enough, too much or too little.

Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766

Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
891 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2024 :  11:18:56  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why would you play a game where you have an idea what the loot would be? I especially refer to the holy avenger. Would you consider the paladin if you were not told that detail? Maybe the party could work extremely well. This is not my cup of tea.
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
520 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2024 :  19:40:44  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

Why would you play a game where you have an idea what the loot would be? I especially refer to the holy avenger. Would you consider the paladin if you were not told that detail? Maybe the party could work extremely well. This is not my cup of tea.



That's the only piece of loot I know about, and I like playing Paladins regardless. Seriously, though, no critique about the rest of my party? I was looking for advice, not combativeness.

Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6354 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2024 :  20:54:10  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I vaguely recall icewind dale was using the 2e rules.

If thats the case then you dont want multiclassing at all.

Paladin is a must for the best weapon.

I'd go with a straight up fighter for muscle, AC is important and Barbarian can only use leather if i remember rightly.

In fact the core classes are often the best in AD&D and especially the computer games (they get better representation in gear and class specific rp interactions).

You need a pure mage, you wont survive without it.

You need a thief for the traps.

You probably need a cleric as well as the paladin isnt good enough at healing.

The last character is up to you, but i'd double up on something depending upon what you like doing. I tended to have a wall of meat so an extra fighter, but thats because i hate managing the spells.

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ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
279 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2024 :  23:30:44  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Played it (BG2-Enhanced) several times. So, I'm NOT a Paladin fan. You don't need them. You DO need a full class Mage and Theif. You'll also want TWO in the party that can Tank. A full class Cleric. The sixth member is whatever you may think you want more of. I've never run a Bard, so I can't advise you on having one. They DO have a LOT of Crowd Control abilities.
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
520 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2024 :  03:32:53  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I vaguely recall icewind dale was using the 2e rules.

If thats the case then you dont want multiclassing at all.

Paladin is a must for the best weapon.

I'd go with a straight up fighter for muscle, AC is important and Barbarian can only use leather if i remember rightly.

In fact the core classes are often the best in AD&D and especially the computer games (they get better representation in gear and class specific rp interactions).

You need a pure mage, you wont survive without it.

You need a thief for the traps.

You probably need a cleric as well as the paladin isnt good enough at healing.

The last character is up to you, but i'd double up on something depending upon what you like doing. I tended to have a wall of meat so an extra fighter, but thats because i hate managing the spells.



Don't forget, this is the Enhanced Edition, so it adds a lot of stuff the original version didn't, namely BG2 class kits.

Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6354 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2024 :  09:23:32  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The class kits are usually an afterthought, so while they might add a gimmicky new ability, the NPC interactions dont account necessarily account for an archer or a barbarian (although there might be one added in for niceties), nor is there much equipment specifically for those kits. Fighters and thieves, and mages, and clerics, and paladins, and bards get all the love in terms of game content.

Base classes were always the most versatile from what i remember.

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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
520 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2024 :  16:59:40  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

The class kits are usually an afterthought, so while they might add a gimmicky new ability, the NPC interactions dont account necessarily account for an archer or a barbarian (although there might be one added in for niceties), nor is there much equipment specifically for those kits. Fighters and thieves, and mages, and clerics, and paladins, and bards get all the love in terms of game content.

Base classes were always the most versatile from what i remember.


Well, I'm more concerned with utility and survivability, having played BG1 & 2 (normal and Enhanced Editions) as well as IWD2. If IWDEE is anything like IWD2 roleplay-wise, I'm know now to expect much for unique interaction.

Either way, would you say my proposed party would work?

Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
279 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2024 :  17:17:00  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

The class kits are usually an afterthought, so while they might add a gimmicky new ability, the NPC interactions dont account necessarily account for an archer or a barbarian (although there might be one added in for niceties), nor is there much equipment specifically for those kits. Fighters and thieves, and mages, and clerics, and paladins, and bards get all the love in terms of game content.

Base classes were always the most versatile from what i remember.


Well, I'm more concerned with utility and survivability, having played BG1 & 2 (normal and Enhanced Editions) as well as IWD2. If IWDEE is anything like IWD2 roleplay-wise, I'm know now to expect much for unique interaction.

Either way, would you say my proposed party would work?


As I mentioned before, you need a full Mage and a full Thief.
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
520 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2024 :  16:31:24  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane


As I mentioned before, you need a full Mage and a full Thief.



Okay, noted. Hmmm.... Probably ditch the Archer, then. I'm questioning if my Berserker can tank if properly geared. Probably going to have them wield axes for a weapon. Paladin is staying, though. I'm likely going to kit them as an Undead Hunter. Bard is also staying. Also tempted to have a Sorcerer instead of a Mage.

Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe

132 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2024 :  17:20:41  Show Profile Send Athreeren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

You need a pure mage, you wont survive without it.


I am not sure that is a good idea. Icewind Dale is very stingy on the loot, especially scrolls. So mages are often underpowered. The enhanced edition adds sorcerers without changing the game to balance it for them, and with few scrolls to go around, a sorcerer is like a mage with more spells per day AND the ability to get the choice of spells that the game is not giving you (this is less true by the end-game, at which point you will have come across all the spells from IWD and Baldur's Gate 2, so choosing only a few of them for a sorcerer becomes harder). Of course it is useful to decide in advance your choice of spells for the full game, but I'd say a sorcerer would be better than a mage. Although I do agree that on or more arcane caster is essential.

I played the game with a solo fighter / mage / thief, and I remember the game as being a lot of save scumming until the end of the first dungeon, after which I was able to have more fun (except for having to fight trolls without any reliable way to set them on fire...)
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
520 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2024 :  20:00:59  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

You need a pure mage, you wont survive without it.


I am not sure that is a good idea. Icewind Dale is very stingy on the loot, especially scrolls. So mages are often underpowered. The enhanced edition adds sorcerers without changing the game to balance it for them, and with few scrolls to go around, a sorcerer is like a mage with more spells per day AND the ability to get the choice of spells that the game is not giving you (this is less true by the end-game, at which point you will have come across all the spells from IWD and Baldur's Gate 2, so choosing only a few of them for a sorcerer becomes harder). Of course it is useful to decide in advance your choice of spells for the full game, but I'd say a sorcerer would be better than a mage. Although I do agree that on or more arcane caster is essential.

I played the game with a solo fighter / mage / thief, and I remember the game as being a lot of save scumming until the end of the first dungeon, after which I was able to have more fun (except for having to fight trolls without any reliable way to set them on fire...)



Okay. What about a Paladin (likely an Undead Hunter), Berserker, a Cleric (likely a Priest of Lathander), and a Bard (likely a Skald) to go with a Sorcerer?

Also, is a Thief necessary (like in BG1 and - to a lesser extent - BG2) or optional (like in IWD2)? I was questioning if I really needed a pure Thief or could make do with a dual-class Human (likely a Fighter) or multi-class (likely an Elf)? If I do so, they'd be more likely to be a ranged support than a backstab/sneak attack type if it uses similar rules to BG1 & BG2. That, or if I go pure Thief, I might go with Swashbuckler to turn them more into an additional melee fighter. If I really don't need a Thief at all, I might go with an Archer for ranged suppport or a Dwarven Defender to act as a tank so the Undead Hunter and Berserker can focus more on raw damage.

Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7975 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2024 :  06:59:27  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Off-topic ... but I have to say all these qualifiers about the changes in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition makes me very happy that they didn't muck up the content or try to add new things to Planescape: Torment: Enhanced Edition. (About the only negative thing I can really say about this remaster is that I don't like the redundant: colons: in the title.)

[/Ayrik]
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe

132 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2024 :  13:18:51  Show Profile Send Athreeren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf

Okay. What about a Paladin (likely an Undead Hunter), Berserker, a Cleric (likely a Priest of Lathander), and a Bard (likely a Skald) to go with a Sorcerer?

Also, is a Thief necessary (like in BG1 and - to a lesser extent - BG2) or optional (like in IWD2)? I was questioning if I really needed a pure Thief or could make do with a dual-class Human (likely a Fighter) or multi-class (likely an Elf)? If I do so, they'd be more likely to be a ranged support than a backstab/sneak attack type if it uses similar rules to BG1 & BG2. That, or if I go pure Thief, I might go with Swashbuckler to turn them more into an additional melee fighter. If I really don't need a Thief at all, I might go with an Archer for ranged suppport or a Dwarven Defender to act as a tank so the Undead Hunter and Berserker can focus more on raw damage.



It's been a while, and I don't remember how much traps and locked chests there are. Since much loot is randomised upon entering a new map, even important magic items, it can be tempting to always save before entering a dungeon, stealth around to check every chest, and only start the dungeon when the loot is going to be satisfying (again, the difference is between fighting respawning trolls with a small number of fire arrows, or with a flaming sword: the randomisation can really screw the balance of the game). Also, you can get a lot of XP in his game, enough to get your thief the high level ability "use any item". But the game is mostly fighting, and skills such as pickpocketing are basically useless. Buffs are essential, so a cleric and a bard are a good idea. And of course you're going to need tanks.
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe

USA
520 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2024 :  16:20:52  Show Profile Send Galuf the Dwarf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren

quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf

Okay. What about a Paladin (likely an Undead Hunter), Berserker, a Cleric (likely a Priest of Lathander), and a Bard (likely a Skald) to go with a Sorcerer?

Also, is a Thief necessary (like in BG1 and - to a lesser extent - BG2) or optional (like in IWD2)? I was questioning if I really needed a pure Thief or could make do with a dual-class Human (likely a Fighter) or multi-class (likely an Elf)? If I do so, they'd be more likely to be a ranged support than a backstab/sneak attack type if it uses similar rules to BG1 & BG2. That, or if I go pure Thief, I might go with Swashbuckler to turn them more into an additional melee fighter. If I really don't need a Thief at all, I might go with an Archer for ranged suppport or a Dwarven Defender to act as a tank so the Undead Hunter and Berserker can focus more on raw damage.



It's been a while, and I don't remember how much traps and locked chests there are. Since much loot is randomised upon entering a new map, even important magic items, it can be tempting to always save before entering a dungeon, stealth around to check every chest, and only start the dungeon when the loot is going to be satisfying (again, the difference is between fighting respawning trolls with a small number of fire arrows, or with a flaming sword: the randomisation can really screw the balance of the game). Also, you can get a lot of XP in his game, enough to get your thief the high level ability "use any item". But the game is mostly fighting, and skills such as pickpocketing are basically useless. Buffs are essential, so a cleric and a bard are a good idea. And of course you're going to need tanks.



Hmmmm... okay, I guess I'll try going with a Swashbuckler, then, as a melee damage dealer and at least to handle traps and locks.

Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766
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