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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Apr 2008 : 17:52:17
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quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
I... ah...
I wouldn't call that "turning" evil. I'd pretty much say that's evil.
I agree. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2008 : 18:12:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
I... ah...
I wouldn't call that "turning" evil. I'd pretty much say that's evil.
I agree.
I second that. can anyone say CP? Complete Pshyco! |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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TheArchPriest
Acolyte
Brazil
14 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2008 : 18:34:42
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LN all the way! (my own alignment)
But I love them all except CG(I hate CG)
And I really think this "Neutral Good" rogue isn't very "good"...
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Black Flame Zealot
Influent Kossuthan Cleric
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2008 : 21:06:47
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quote:
Originally posted by TheArchPriest
But I love them all except CG(I hate CG)
Any particular reason for that? |
Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 03:01:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
I second that. can anyone say CP? Complete Pshyco!
Complete Psycho? Is that some new WotC class book? 
...I shouldn't have laughed at that as hard as I did. There's... There's chocolate milk EVERYwhere now. |
Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling. |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 14:50:58
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quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
I second that. can anyone say CP? Complete Pshyco!
Complete Psycho? Is that some new WotC class book?
...I shouldn't have laughed at that as hard as I did. There's... There's chocolate milk EVERYwhere now.
Same thing happened here! although I was referring to an alignment.... |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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TheArchPriest
Acolyte
Brazil
14 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2008 : 21:19:16
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quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
quote:
Originally posted by TheArchPriest
But I love them all except CG(I hate CG)
Any particular reason for that?
Yes they tend to be dreamers that believe all the word is beautiful and that everyone should be happy and hug themselves
Or they are just annoying with their behavior
I am irritated with all kind of chaos but I just can't tolerate CG,the others are at least cool to roleplay |
Black Flame Zealot
Influent Kossuthan Cleric
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 00:11:10
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quote:
Originally posted by TheArchPriest
quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
quote:
Originally posted by TheArchPriest
But I love them all except CG(I hate CG)
Any particular reason for that?
Yes they tend to be dreamers that believe all the word is beautiful and that everyone should be happy and hug themselves
Or they are just annoying with their behavior
I am irritated with all kind of chaos but I just can't tolerate CG,the others are at least cool to roleplay
I think, as far as the autohugging goes, you're confusing CG with NG, haha. But I can see where you're coming from. I like to look at the problem this way, though. In all DnD setting, alignment is an objective, cosmos-altering phenomenon. Demons and devils are evil because they are made of evil, if you like such classic fantasy speech. Similarly, slaadi are chaotic for similar reasons. Players, however, cannot do anything but play subjectively, in which intent often seems to be more important than action. Why did I slaughter the brigands mercilessly? Because it was the only way to save the city.
Similarly, I like to think that alignment should reflect more than just moral and ethical standing, as well as means by which character goals are fulfilled. Take, for instance, Robin Hood, who is the sample chaotic good character given in many sources. He does good deeds by waylaying the snobby rich and giving to the poor. This is, of course, all assuming that the rich are evil or at the very least malevolent, while the poor are always good. Even then, however, there are a few problems to be seen. From what I can remember from a Robin Hood book I read, the protagonist was strongly family-centric, with a great love of his nation and loyalty to the true king. These traits, however, are more lawful than chaotic, as chaotic characters as presented in the DMG tend to think power corrupts and those IN power are undependable.
::Takes a breath::
Thus, alignment optimally covers personality as well, outside the realm of action. Reckless behavior, temperament, impatience; these would all seem to me to be chaotic traits. Unfortunately, a great many characters defined as "chaotic" exhibit very few of them. I hate to call a drow black (that was a tea kettle reference, not a racial one), but take a look at Drizzt. His stoicism and normally keen control over his temper would paint him as lawful, or at the very least neutral in my book. The third edition campaign setting, however, certainly labels him as chaotic.
So, I suppose that looking at it from a more top-down viewpoint would help. Even at the simplest level, characters within the same alignment, while they "tend" to have similar traits, often do not. I think that if you tried playing an intelligent CG character (i.e., a realistic one), you'd have a great deal of fun.
Incidentally, lawful neutral is my least favorite.
All the best. |
Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 00:58:35
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quote:
Originally posted by TheArchPriest
I am irritated with all kind of chaos but I just can't tolerate CG,the others are at least cool to roleplay
How so?
I just had to ask. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 19:05:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by TheArchPriest
I am irritated with all kind of chaos but I just can't tolerate CG,the others are at least cool to roleplay
How so?
I just had to ask.
How he's annoyed with Chaotic, or how the others are at least fun to roleplay
I just had to ask. |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 19:08:21
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quote:
Originally posted by TheArchPriest
quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
quote:
Originally posted by TheArchPriest
But I love them all except CG(I hate CG)
Any particular reason for that?
Yes they tend to be dreamers that believe all the word is beautiful and that everyone should be happy and hug themselves
Or they are just annoying with their behavior
That would be the Beatles.
"all we are saying... is give peace a chance"
"people say I'm a dreamer...but I'm not the only one..." |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
Edited by - Aravine on 18 Apr 2008 19:09:31 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 21:00:29
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| Man, that's John Lennon, not the Beatles. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 21:21:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
How he's annoyed with Chaotic, or how the others are at least fun to roleplay
I just had to ask.
How he dislikes CG, but thinks the other chaotic alignments (CN, CE) fun to roleplay. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 21:22:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Man, that's John Lennon, not the Beatles.
Seconded. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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TheArchPriest
Acolyte
Brazil
14 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 22:32:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
How he's annoyed with Chaotic, or how the others are at least fun to roleplay
I just had to ask.
How he dislikes CG, but thinks the other chaotic alignments (CN, CE) fun to roleplay.
For CN
Well I don't know but I think its fun to play a warrior like Tempus who wanders the land ramdomly(not really) changing sides and slashing who he wants(the unlawful and charismatic rogue,and the arrogant mage traveller are also coll types)
Regarding CE
Sometimes I like to play the deranged psycopath,generally suffering from serious mental perturbations and with insanely evil and perverted dreams
Regarding CG
I don't know,the only thing I find cool in chaos is insanity and unpredictability they generally(like i said its only generally) they don't have both these things
Also I think CG heros are far too common
But I think I will play CG one or two times in my life just for a change (the Drizzt like CG not the classical CG I spoke of) |
Black Flame Zealot
Influent Kossuthan Cleric
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Edited by - TheArchPriest on 18 Apr 2008 22:34:01 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 23:16:24
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| I'm wondering if you're reading the alignment descriptions wrong... All chaotic means is that the individual is more important than the group. You don't have to act any special way, and it doesn't prohibit loyalty to a particular person. It just means that you value individual freedom and choice more than you value being part of a group or following rules. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2008 : 00:00:46
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| I agree with Wooly, but at the same time I appreciate that you took the time to explain your reasoning, ArchPriest. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 19 Apr 2008 00:02:18 |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2008 : 08:34:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Man, that's John Lennon, not the Beatles.
Seconded.
Thirded. (Although, Give Peace A Chance was written early enough that it's credited as a Lennon/McCartney song ) |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2008 : 23:56:02
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| Okay, so it's Lennon. Sorry, I was born in the 80's. but the idea is the same. |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 01:54:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
Okay, so it's Lennon. Sorry, I was born in the 80's. but the idea is the same.
I was born in the 80s, too, I just happen to know a little about the Beatles. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 21 Apr 2008 01:54:42 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 03:48:18
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Okay, we seem to be diverting a little too far off-topic, far too often. Let's try to keep the discussion on alignment, eh?
... And this demonstrates a Lawful alignment. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 05:37:32
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Shut'cher pie hole!!
...And there you have Chaotic.
There honestly ought to be a third aspect to alignment, nice/mean.
I'm a MLG paladin. I'll save the seedy merchant whose dealings have finally caught up with him, but I'll gauntlet-check'im in the face to teach him a lesson. |
Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling. |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2008 : 16:20:47
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| You know, there should be a Complete Psycho alignment! where the character does random stuff and kills everyone...wait, that would be Chaotic Evil, wouldn't it? |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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GoCeraf
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2008 : 20:45:05
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P'raps, but most people do that and label themselves Chaotic Neutral.
Argh, I hate morally neutral alignments. |
Being sarcastic can be more telling than simply telling. |
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TheArchPriest
Acolyte
Brazil
14 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 03:17:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm wondering if you're reading the alignment descriptions wrong... All chaotic means is that the individual is more important than the group. You don't have to act any special way, and it doesn't prohibit loyalty to a particular person. It just means that you value individual freedom and choice more than you value being part of a group or following rules.
I know but I still dislike Chaotic things |
Black Flame Zealot
Influent Kossuthan Cleric
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 16:07:19
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quote:
Originally posted by TheArchPriest
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm wondering if you're reading the alignment descriptions wrong... All chaotic means is that the individual is more important than the group. You don't have to act any special way, and it doesn't prohibit loyalty to a particular person. It just means that you value individual freedom and choice more than you value being part of a group or following rules.
I know but I still dislike Chaotic things
I take it then, that your an archpriest of Tyr? |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 09:53:06
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quote:
Originally posted by GoCeraf
I... ah...
I wouldn't call that "turning" evil. I'd pretty much say that's evil. In fact, the first time you killed an innocent because it was "necessary," I'd say that was at the very least nongood, and most likely pretty evil.
Then I could probably never play a 'good' character that I could identify with in the least.
The Forgotten Realms are a violent place, where many races and nations are more or less permanently at war, against irregular and decentralised forces. Assuming that in such conditions, it would always be possible to perform some kind of moral judgment on each and every person before acting is the worst kind of bright-eyed optimism.
Is it really 'good' to refuse to kill a sentry just because he/she is unarmed and one doesn't know that he's committed any crimes worthy of death? Even if this refusal leads to the sentry giving the alarm and a battle that could have been avoided being joined, killing a few dozen? Does the life of the single sentry that is saved somehow make up for the number of soldiers of your side and the other that died in the pointless fight?
I mean, I can see some 'Good' people adopting a system of Kantian Categorical Imperative ethics, but it's inconceivable that all of them would. With the intelligence to perceive future consequences must come some sort of responsibility to take them into account.
A military leader must work to bring his own men home safe and sound and to accomplish the goals he is set. Sometimes, the best methods for doing so will demand that he take action that could be seen as dishonourable or cruel. So be it. The willingness to act for the greater good regardless of the cost to yourself, your reputation and your peace of mind is a much better mark of 'Good' than adherance to an abstract principle like 'never kill innocents'.
Personally, though, I don't use the Aligment system anymore (comes with not bothering to use D&D any more), but in the times that I did, I usually DMed.
In those few times I did roleplay a character, I twice chose to play a Paladin, who was, of course, Lawful Good. This I did as a roleplaying challenge and because I felt the clash between the principled stance of a scholarly knight and the realities of war was interesting. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
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Alignment
