| Author |
 Topic  |
|
GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Dec 2007 : 17:02:54
|
True...but then again, you can always choose to disregard anything that doesn't fit into your present campaign...and work out the nasty details of the upcoming 4E release later. Personally, I don't look forward to whatever it is that is going to entail, but I am curious from an information-only standpoint.
...And If I gave offense, you have my apologies, Lord Hamster... |
'Everyone dies...I only choose the time and place for a few.' --Eric Destler |
 |
|
|
Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2007 : 18:05:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by GRYPHON
True...but then again, you can always choose to disregard anything that doesn't fit into your present campaign...and work out the nasty details of the upcoming 4E release later. Personally, I don't look forward to whatever it is that is going to entail, but I am curious from an information-only standpoint.
...And If I gave offense, you have my apologies, Lord Hamster...
Ah, to be idealistic and naive again... |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
|
|
|
|
GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2007 : 18:10:24
|
| ME? Not according to my players...but then I do have about 15 years on the oldest of them...21 being about the average age. |
'Everyone dies...I only choose the time and place for a few.' --Eric Destler |
|
|
|
GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2007 : 18:13:10
|
| ...And that one is considered 'the kid'... |
'Everyone dies...I only choose the time and place for a few.' --Eric Destler |
|
|
|
Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 02:10:37
|
Lol. I said nothing about young...
P.S. I am not trying to give offense by my comments. PM me if I get out of hand. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
|
|
|
|
GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 02:39:11
|
None taken, sir.
...And I took it as a compliment... |
'Everyone dies...I only choose the time and place for a few.' --Eric Destler |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 02:54:18
|
And, I'm back with Rich's newest WOTC FR posts from today.
"My new novel "Swordmage" is set entirely in 4e Realms -- both for timeline and game edition. Game mechanics are pretty transparent in the book (meaning that you wouldn't easily be able to tell if the book was anchored in 3e or 4e rules if you didn't know already)."
and
"From what I've seen so far, no, clerics don't get the "weapon of choice" for free. However, there's no reason a cleric can't spend a feat to be proficient in batle axe or greatsword or whatever."
and
"A good point, and one that I can't easily address off the top of my head. I'm not well versed in what the Living Realms campaign is planning (hey, there's only one of me!) but I think you're right--we would want to treat major plot arcs in Living Realms as canon events for the world. My hope is that we'd avoid real RSE-plot threads in any format for a while, and make sure that canon advances are mirrored across all formats at a reasonable pace--so novels, game product, Living Realms, and D&D Insider material all pull in more or less the same direction." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2007 : 01:43:28
|
Rich's posts that he posted today.
"Sorry, but I'm not at liberty to tell you exactly what's going on with each specific deity yet. I hope to be able to say more soon.
I will say this much: We think that some of the deities in demihuman pantheons might really be Faerunian deities "known by another name." For example, is Sehanine just the elven name for Selune? Or is Sehanine an avatar of Selune? And other deities in those demihuman pantheons sure look like mythological heroes (read: demigods) as opposed to gods. I've cited the example of Clangeddin a few times.
So, I guess to answer your question honestly: No, expect changes to the Seldarine. Some will be revealed to be demigods/"patron saints" in Corellon's celestial retinue, and others might be revealed to be... something else."
and
"We're already planning to have some pretty consistent Realms support in D&D Insider. I don't believe we're going to segregate it from core game material, but I'd hope that you'd see a lore-full Realms piece almost every month once we raise steam and get underway with this."
The other two posts were only short answers that I didn't feel I needed to post. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2007 : 02:12:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Rich's posts that he posted today.
I will say this much: We think that some of the deities in demihuman pantheons might really be Faerunian deities "known by another name." For example, is Sehanine just the elven name for Selune? Or is Sehanine an avatar of Selune?
So, let me get this strait . . . Angharradh is really Selune, Hanali, and Aerdrie? Or is that Selune, Sune, and Akadi? And I know this is a moot point because they already "disjoined" the settings, but this would mean that Selune just happened to have an elven avatar that was the same as a goddess worshiped by the elves in Greyhawk.
Not to mention the fact that even under the "new" separate settings, the elves can from "elsewhere" already worshiping the Seldarine. So then, is the Seldarine slowly dying off with Faerunian deities replacing them and assuming their names one by one?
Nevermind . . . I have to stop reading this stuff. |
|
|
|
Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2007 : 02:25:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
So, let me get this strait . . . Angharradh is really Selune, Hanali, and Aerdrie? Or is that Selune, Sune, and Akadi? And I know this is a moot point because they already "disjoined" the settings, but this would mean that Selune just happened to have an elven avatar that was the same as a goddess worshiped by the elves in Greyhawk.
Not to mention the fact that even under the "new" separate settings, the elves can from "elsewhere" already worshiping the Seldarine. So then, is the Seldarine slowly dying off with Faerunian deities replacing them and assuming their names one by one?
Nevermind . . . I have to stop reading this stuff.
Your reasoning is based on the world's logic consistency. WoTC reasoning is based on game design. Don't compare oranges and apples.
(And I prefer to not say on which side I stand) |
Edited by - Skeptic on 06 Dec 2007 02:25:38 |
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2007 : 06:33:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Rich's posts that he posted today.
I will say this much: We think that some of the deities in demihuman pantheons might really be Faerunian deities "known by another name." For example, is Sehanine just the elven name for Selune? Or is Sehanine an avatar of Selune?
So, let me get this strait . . . Angharradh is really Selune, Hanali, and Aerdrie? Or is that Selune, Sune, and Akadi? And I know this is a moot point because they already "disjoined" the settings, but this would mean that Selune just happened to have an elven avatar that was the same as a goddess worshiped by the elves in Greyhawk.
Not to mention the fact that even under the "new" separate settings, the elves can from "elsewhere" already worshiping the Seldarine. So then, is the Seldarine slowly dying off with Faerunian deities replacing them and assuming their names one by one?
Nevermind . . . I have to stop reading this stuff.
Well hopefully you will with time get to the same stage as me. You will be able to laugh and shake your head. It makes it a bit easier; useful if you don't want to pull your hair out by the roots and bang your head into the keyboard screaming  . |
|
|
|
Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2007 : 12:52:26
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Rich's posts that he posted today.
I will say this much: We think that some of the deities in demihuman pantheons might really be Faerunian deities "known by another name." For example, is Sehanine just the elven name for Selune? Or is Sehanine an avatar of Selune?
So, let me get this strait . . . Angharradh is really Selune, Hanali, and Aerdrie? Or is that Selune, Sune, and Akadi? And I know this is a moot point because they already "disjoined" the settings, but this would mean that Selune just happened to have an elven avatar that was the same as a goddess worshiped by the elves in Greyhawk.
Not to mention the fact that even under the "new" separate settings, the elves can from "elsewhere" already worshiping the Seldarine. So then, is the Seldarine slowly dying off with Faerunian deities replacing them and assuming their names one by one?
Nevermind . . . I have to stop reading this stuff.
Well hopefully you will with time get to the same stage as me. You will be able to laugh and shake your head. It makes it a bit easier; useful if you don't want to pull your hair out by the roots and bang your head into the keyboard screaming .
yeah, that is useful |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
|
|
|
arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2007 : 14:55:58
|
I would just like to say a big, big thankyou to WotC! You have now saved me lots of money that I can use to buy all the old FR material that I didn't get round to getting last time.  |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2007 : 23:11:58
|
Rich's posts from today.
"We'll probably retcon the divine rank of minor deities (folks like the Red Knight or Clangeddin). Something like the Selune-Sehanine situation I mentioned earlier would not be handled through a retcon per se. More than that I can't say right now."
and
"Answering as best I can...
1. Bill Slavicsek is the VP of RPG R&D. Chris Perkins is the Design Manager, which most closely corresponds to creative director. Bruce Cordell is heading up the design team working on the 4e FRCS; two years ago I headed up the revision team that created the original story bible we're working from. I used to be the Creative Director for FR (2000-2003) but we've reorganized a few times since, so these days I'm just a senior designer. Chris ran Dungeon magazine for quite a long time, and produced several outstanding FR adventures. Bruce writes FR novels. I don't know about their playing histories, but I've certainly run FR campaigns in 3e (including the playtest campaigns for Silver Marches and Prison of the Firebringer).
2. You'll have to ask them. Rob Heinsoo, Logan Bonner, Bruce Cordell, Chris Sims, Phil Athans, and Ed Greenwood are the guys currently engaged in the design and writing.
3. Ed is doing work in Faerun as well as elsewhere. He didn't have that much to do with the pantheon, but some of our big plans stem from a proposal he set forward many years ago that he called "the Sleeping Gods."
4. Depends which changes and which designers. We oppose things all the time. Debate, reasoned argument, and consensus are the tools of our trade.
5. That was a consensus decision made at the time we worked up the revision guide. Bruce, Phil, and I were the primary authors of the guide. Chris and Bill OK'd it.
6. Some parts, sure. Much of this work is highly subjective, so it's hard to prove that a storyline development is right or wrong. Some of you on the boards didn't like the Tyr-Helm storyline. We thought it was interesting to draw on real-world mythology for a bit of fallibility, caprice, and ironic doom. Will all Realms fans hate that? Not likely. Will some? Well, sure. Clearly a dozen posters on this board do, but that doesn't mean everyone does. Do I regret what we're doing? No, not really. I think it's the right course, even if it's a controversial one."
and
"Yes. Gruumsh and Talos are both one-eyed dudes who want to be the god of destruction. I'm just sayin'...."
to the question of:
So, question for the Designer: Will there be any non-human deities we're familiar with that will replace a Faerunian deity or be adopted into the pantheon? |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2007 : 23:42:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Rich's posts from today.
"We'll probably retcon the divine rank of minor deities (folks like the Red Knight or Clangeddin). Something like the Selune-Sehanine situation I mentioned earlier would not be handled through a retcon per se. More than that I can't say right now."
Maybe I need to head over to that thread. I seem to recall Rich posting someplace the spellplage was a device to avoid doing the hated retcons. So now we get both of the bad options? |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2007 : 00:33:55
|
I just wanna post a small comment here:
I know that a few posters have referenced comments towards me and I haven't answered them. So, I just want to say that I'm not ignoring you but I've decided to not post public comments about how I feel about 4e and as ya'll can see, all I do is report what game designers are saying.
Now, if you want to privately message me, I'm more then willing to discuss 4e. But I just didn't want some of you to think that I'm ignoring your public posts because that isn't what I'm trying to do.
Sorry, just felt like I needed to get that aired out. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 08 Dec 2007 00:35:45 |
|
|
|
Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2007 : 19:59:03
|
Apparently in the new preview book, the goddess of the moon in the generic 4e system is named Sehanine.
" * Known gods include Bahamut, Corellon (god of magic), Io ("the ancient diety," now dead and split into Bahamut and Tiamat), Lolth, Moradin, Obad-Hai (god of the wilderness), Sehanine (goddess of the moon), Tiamat, and Zehir (god of night)."
from enworld.
|
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2007 : 22:31:52
|
Rich posted this yesterday.
"There will be some new "builds" published in the FR player character sourcebook, but I don't think you could call those FR-specific talent trees. We will have some FR-specific mechanics in the form of a revised approach to character region (something simpler to navigate than regional feats, we hope), but most of what you'll see as character options in FR sourcebooks should be widely applicable to core D&D characters too." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2007 : 23:23:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mkhaiwati
Apparently in the new preview book, the goddess of the moon in the generic 4e system is named Sehanine.
" * Known gods include Bahamut, Corellon (god of magic), Io ("the ancient diety," now dead and split into Bahamut and Tiamat), Lolth, Moradin, Obad-Hai (god of the wilderness), Sehanine (goddess of the moon), Tiamat, and Zehir (god of night)."
from enworld.
It's the God Learners! |
|
|
|
initiate
Learned Scribe
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 16:26:05
|
| I am not "down" with the MMO lingo being used on the "street". Prithee, fellow botanists of the Realms, enlighten me: What is a "talent tree"? Where does it grow? |
|
|
|
Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 16:30:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by initiate
I am not "down" with the MMO lingo being used on the "street". Prithee, fellow botanists of the Realms, enlighten me: What is a "talent tree"? Where does it grow?
D&D is the game that has promoted the gamist concept of class during the last 30 years. Please don't blame the video game designers to have come with a nice variant on it  |
Edited by - Skeptic on 10 Dec 2007 16:31:34 |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 17:18:12
|
Skeptic, that was totally uncalled for.
The "talent tree" is apparently going to be a new way PCs will acquire skills and/or feats (as well as a structure for the development of said skills)...but don't hold me to that, as I know very little about the new 4E rules. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 10 Dec 2007 17:53:29 |
|
|
|
Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 17:29:45
|
| so are we talking like a sphere grid from Final Fantasy 10 or a license grid from FF12? are we doing away with normal leveling? |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 17:46:50
|
Talent trees will likely be simalar to Star War SAGA RPG, the design team said that was one source they considered as a model for 4th, the other most often mentioned is Book of Nine Swords if I recall correctly.
Not having looked at SAGA SW not sure how it works, however discussion appears to indicate something like this.
You pick a talent at creation, as you gain levels you can enhance that talent by picking a branch to follow. It appears to me it is something simalar to a feat tree as far as preregs go. It however has been described as more flexable using talent trees then using feats.
We have been told there will be less feats and skills so it appears talents will become more important when gaining levels |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 10 Dec 2007 18:16:57 |
|
|
|
Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 18:13:34
|
| what was that quote again.."don't fix it if it ain't broken." yep. that's it. |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 18:19:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
what was that quote again.."don't fix it if it ain't broken." yep. that's it.
But they say it is broken because, in part, splat books. Shadow Weave clearly identified as something that boke 3.X in the opinion of design team. FR aparently became broke because of high level NPCs as well. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 18:41:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
But they say it is broken because, in part, splat books. Shadow Weave clearly identified as something that boke 3.X in the opinion of design team. FR aparently became broke because of high level NPCs as well.
Watch out to mix what is broken in the 3.x design and what is broken in the Realms as a D&D setting.
BTW, IMHO the broken parts of 3.x were written in bold characters in the core rules, cheaply made splat books only added to it.
Like I said in the poll, High-level fully stated NPCs is not a good idea in a D&D setting (worst in 3.x than ever).
That doesn't mean that a fantasy world used as a shared fiction space like FR shouldn't have many "powerful" characters.
The concept of Weave never matched the D&D rules, so was never used in actual play anyway; getting rid of it only make things clear for everyone. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 10 Dec 2007 18:53:36 |
|
|
|
Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 19:47:36
|
Well Skeptic, I at least agree with you that "High-level fully stated NPCs is not a good idea in a D&D setting." It is somewhere to start!  |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
|
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 22:43:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
The concept of Weave never matched the D&D rules, so was never used in actual play anyway; getting rid of it only make things clear for everyone.
You have stated this several times, and to be honest about it, you are wrong. "Vancian" magic worked fine as one form of magic that was supported by the Weave. No ruleset is going to cover every possible thing in a given setting, unless you redefine the setting to say that only those things defined in the rules can possibly happen in the setting.
I'd argue that 3.5 had the potential to emulate a great deal of what was possible with the Weave as various authors had described it. Quickened spells, contingent spells, reserve feats, incantations (from Unearthed Arcana), and other optional rules could go a long way toward showing the variety of magical tradition in the Realms.
The problem was not that the Weave didn't fit the rules, its that there was a lack of interest on the part of WOTC to explain how these optional rules might fit into what was already known about the Realms. Rather than try to use the rules, that I found to be a rather helpful set of tools, to reinforce the feel of the Realms as it had developed over the years, WOTC was more interested in introducing more elements that hadn't existed previously into the setting.
Even the designers haven't said that the Weave didn't fit the rules under 3.5, 3, 2, or 1, but rather that the Weave, as it exists, is controlled by a deity of magic, and they didn't want a deity of magic having control over the flow of magic in the setting. Right or wrong, that's a much different reason than saying that the Weave didn't fit the setting. |
|
|
|
Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 23:44:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
You have stated this several times, and to be honest about it, you are wrong. "Vancian" magic worked fine as one form of magic that was supported by the Weave. No ruleset is going to cover every possible thing in a given setting, unless you redefine the setting to say that only those things defined in the rules can possibly happen in the setting.
I'd argue that 3.5 had the potential to emulate a great deal of what was possible with the Weave as various authors had described it. Quickened spells, contingent spells, reserve feats, incantations (from Unearthed Arcana), and other optional rules could go a long way toward showing the variety of magical tradition in the Realms.
The problem was not that the Weave didn't fit the rules, its that there was a lack of interest on the part of WOTC to explain how these optional rules might fit into what was already known about the Realms. Rather than try to use the rules, that I found to be a rather helpful set of tools, to reinforce the feel of the Realms as it had developed over the years, WOTC was more interested in introducing more elements that hadn't existed previously into the setting.
Even the designers haven't said that the Weave didn't fit the rules under 3.5, 3, 2, or 1, but rather that the Weave, as it exists, is controlled by a deity of magic, and they didn't want a deity of magic having control over the flow of magic in the setting. Right or wrong, that's a much different reason than saying that the Weave didn't fit the setting.
Longer answer is coming soon, but basic idea is a powerful concept like the Weave must be embraced by the rules or dropped. What was done during 1-3.x era is a (IMHO, failed) attempt to come up with a way to say neither yes or no. Bad bad bad...
Btw, don't get me wrong, I have nothing agaisn't the concept of the Weave. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 10 Dec 2007 23:51:15 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
4e FR
