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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 04:24:45
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Rich's other posts from yesterday.
"Assuming that you adopt the 4th Edition ruleset but keep your campaign pre-Spellplague, you may be able to skip the 4e FR Campaign Guide. The new campaign book does include a good amount of information you'll want for playing 4th Ed. D&D in the Realms (for example, monster and villain stats, magic items, etc.) but it's roughly 75% story to 25% mechanics.
The Forgotten Realms Player's Guide (4e) may be more useful to you, since it will have lots of good character generation info and material such as an updated region approach, new FR races and classes, etc.
If you're adopting neither the "Post-Spellplague" Realms nor the 4th Edition D&D rules, well, then in all honesty neither book would be worth much to you."
and
"Well, to be clear, we'd say something like this: "Eladrins in Faerun come in three kindreds: sun elves (or gold elves, or Ar-tel'quessir), moon elves (or silver elves, or Teu-tel'quessir), and star elves (or mithral elves, or ???-tel'quessir)." Differences between them are just cosmetic, although they might be based in different regions and have slightly different starting background options.
All core D&D races will be represented in FR. Realms includes everything in core D&D." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wizbane
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 07:30:47
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Well, here it is, our first example of core-driven FR lore (to my knowledge).
I'm fine with having all elves fall under one category with regards to stats and rules, this can even be read as an improvement. On the other hand, eladrins become a useless feature, that doesn't actually add anything... unless we read it as a distinction related to the origin of the elves (eladrins are not from Faerun, others are), therefore built on already established lore.
My suggestion at this point would be to add FR only rules (like subracial traits, etc.) to make a small distinction among the various elven groups, because players like to see cosmetic traits actually having an effect, albeit small.
Wizbane |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 15:12:14
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When did Bane become a war god? What happened to Tempus?
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 15:57:27
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Bane is a war god in core, he wasn't talking about the Realms. But since this is the Bane, I'm afraid it's safe to assume that either Tempus will be killed, too, or maybe that Bane assumes Garagos' portfolio...?
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 17:51:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
When did Bane become a war god? What happened to Tempus?
From what I've seen I'd say Bane is a war god in the Core rules in Hextor's place. Note that Core is not FR, so this does not say anything about the status of Bane or Tempus in 4e FR.
quote:
Originally posted by Zorro
... I'm afraid it's safe to assume that either Tempus will be killed, too, or maybe that Bane assumes Garagos' portfolio...?
Each to his own I guess, but I would never assume anything based on changes in the Core gods. The 3e Core gods was never true to the Greyhawk lore, from the comments I've seen from 'hawk fans.
Don't believe the internet. Some folks are trying very hard to be offended.
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Edited by - Snotlord on 30 Oct 2007 17:56:08 |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 19:14:22
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It was a poor wording on my part, I'm afraid. But although this is core and not FR, it's still the Bane, not just a random god that coincidentally has the same name, so one has to wonder where the "war" in his portfolio came from.
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 19:23:00
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| Well we do know some Realms deity will disappear or be demoted. If I read some of those posts correctly. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 19:44:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Zorro
... it's still the Bane, not just a random god that coincidentally has the same name, so one has to wonder where the "war" in his portfolio came from.
Perhaps the designers considered the needs of the Core rules and Bane/Zhentarim's history of starting wars? I seem to recall that Wyatt's article said this, only with more words. If there ever was a LE god of war Bane seem a fine choice to me.
Personally I'm more worried about making Corellon a god of dwarves. |
Edited by - Snotlord on 30 Oct 2007 19:52:36 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 20:28:19
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| I'm not completely confident that the core pantheon and the FR pantheon will be two seperate things. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 21:15:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I'm not completely confident that the core pantheon and the FR pantheon will be two seperate things.
I'm pretty sure Rich Baker confirmed the opposite (they are separate). |
Edited by - Skeptic on 30 Oct 2007 21:15:42 |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 21:38:10
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Did he indeed? I wonder why they would import an altered Bane into core (saying he's a god of war in a very matter-of-course way) if they didn't intend to use him in this form in the Realms. Why would they call him Bane anyway if he wasn't the Bane?
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 22:11:16
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| Bane has always been militant, and that could easily be interpreted as being a god of war. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 22:31:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I'm not completely confident that the core pantheon and the FR pantheon will be two seperate things.
I'm pretty sure Rich Baker confirmed the opposite (they are separate).
Could you give me a quote or a link?
PS: It truly does seem like the favorite adjective of WotC is "cool". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 23:40:07
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And as usual, I'm reporting in with Rich's recent WOTC FR posts, which were posted today.
"I'm not sure yet, but I don't think so. Ed's got a lot of irons in the fire, including novels as well as game products.
That said, I believe that the Campaign Guide and the Player's Guide will "talk to" each other pretty extensively -- for example, regions described in one will certainly be reflected in the other. Some of Ed's work may spill over into the FRPG before all's said and done."
and
"I think so, and I think I count as an older fan of the setting. I'm pretty jazzed about the little corner of the Moonsea where I've set my novel "Swordmage," for example. The story's evolved there (no more Maalthir in Hillsfar, Vaasans up to no good in Thar, the natural consequences of the Empire of Shade and Zhentil Keep butting heads) and I think there's plenty of old-school FR adventuring to be done up in that corner of Faerun. And there are dozens upon dozens of places like that--Waterdeep, the Silver Marches, Evereska, Cormyr, Amn, Tethyr, Impiltur, Damara, Thesk, Aglarond. The list goes on and on. You'll see lots of what you remember about these places, and a good sprinkling of new storylines and adventure opportunities.
BTW, we certainly don't begin our work with "Older fans will hate this." That's rarely put forward as a stated design goal."
and
"Yeah, smokepowder is something we'll probably skip over this time.
I was asked the question on Candlekeep the other day: What happens to magic items when the Spellplague rolls through? I answered that I thought use-activated items (like swords or boots or flying carpets) that had already been created were already "plugged in" to the world's geomagical energy and didn't need to continuously interact with the Weave per se, although casters certainly would use the Weave to create new items. Spelljamming helms probably fall into that category. For some amount of time after the Spellplague hits, casters would have a hard time creating new magic items until they mastered the new ways to summon and shape the raw stuff of magic. But in time they'd be able to make new items, too.
And... yeah, I actually think we will keep a tiny little hint of spelljamming alive in the setting. Don't expect it to be a very prominent feature, but we're not planning to get rid of it. Pirates from the Tears of Selune? That's just cool." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 00:17:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I'm not completely confident that the core pantheon and the FR pantheon will be two seperate things.
I'm pretty sure Rich Baker confirmed the opposite (they are separate).
Could you give me a quote or a link?
PS: It truly does seem like the favorite adjective of WotC is "cool".
Yeah -- and the whole Design Team *ROCKS*! 4E will be so *COOL* that your fingers will *freeze* when you grasp the books! Plus it *ROCKS* even more than the Design Team!   |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 00:22:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
And... yeah, I actually think we will keep a tiny little hint of spelljamming alive in the setting. Don't expect it to be a very prominent feature, but we're not planning to get rid of it. Pirates from the Tears of Selune? That's just cool."
Huzzah!   |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 00:40:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
And... yeah, I actually think we will keep a tiny little hint of spelljamming alive in the setting. Don't expect it to be a very prominent feature, but we're not planning to get rid of it. Pirates from the Tears of Selune? That's just cool."
Huzzah!
Indeed. And this may also mean that the vague spelljamming hints that already exist in 3e Realmslore, could be carried over into the new lore as well. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2007 : 03:14:38
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Here's Rich's current WOTC post, which were posted today.
"Astute observation, Reneshat. You've hit the nail on head.
Tempus is still the god of war in Realms, and the Red Knight is a demigod associated with his celestial court (such as it is).
So why does the core D&D version of Bane acquire a war portfolio? The answer is pretty simple: Just like Tyr in the Realms isn't the "core Tyr," we think the "core Bane" is a deity inspired by the FR Bane. In our discussions about the new core pantheon we kept coming back to a "lawful evil tyrant/war god" concept -- a figure a little like Ares, but with more shades of conquest and imposed authority than just pure battle. We kept slinging the name "Bane" around as a placeholder in our discussions just because it was a useful shorthand for a big part of the concept. Anyway, we finally just looked at it and said, "You know, we keep calling this guy Bane. Maybe he should just *be* Bane." After all, Realms shares other deities with the core game, like Bahamut and Tiamat and Lolth and Gruumsh and Corellon, etc., etc.
Anyway, I suppose the 4e Bane could pick up a bit of conquest or authoritarianism in his portfolio as a way of nailing down what we mean when we say he's the god of tyranny. That might be helpful, frankly. I mean, who would worship tyranny for its own sake anyway?"
and
"We have a schedule, but I'm not at liberty to share it. I think you'll start seeing preview articles in December, but that's as much as I can say. I'm just not allowed to scoop our D&D Insider content yet.
Explaining cool is tough, because it's clearly subjective. I've defended the coolness of the Mystra's death-Spellplague-evolution of magic change, which I think is a "Time of Troubles"-type event much better grounded in the lore of the setting than, say, the Time of Troubles itself. It's cool to me because it fits well with existing lore, gets the setting to where it needs to go, and restores a sense of dark mystery and peril to magic that's lacking in the 2e/3e environment. But X percent of the folks who hear about it don't think it's cool and can't be convinced that it is, no matter what I say. The deific events reported in the last page or two of Grand History are the same thing -- some people think it's cool to see Realms deities caught up in a tragedy akin to the death of Balder, while other people don't think so. Nothing is cool to everyone, I guess." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2007 : 05:49:50
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| kudo's for the reference to Tyr's original pantheon *g* |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Toedoe
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2007 : 07:25:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Since Kentinal didn't quote the whole post, I'm reposting it. It's also from Perkin's journal.
(6) The 4E FR setting will have a smaller pantheon. In general, there will be less overlap in the gods' portfolios. Consequently, some 3E deities have been 'demoted,' effectively becoming agents or emissaries of more powerful gods. A handful of deities have been killed off. There are also a few new deities to fill holes.
________________
Chris Perkins
Design Manager, RPGs and Miniatures
Wizards of the Coast, Inc."
I quess my mind is to simple to understand that. They are demoting and killing off some Gods, because the Pantheon has too many, then why create more to fill the holes? |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 02:37:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Toedoe
I quess my mind is to simple to understand that. They are demoting and killing off some Gods, because the Pantheon has too many, then why create more to fill the holes?
Great question... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Toedoe
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 04:50:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Rich's newest WOTC FR forum posts.
Q. What were the old bad ideas?
I'm not eager to answer this question, because I can't do it without bashing the work of other designers and authors. I'll pick on one of my own: the Shadow Weave. It's fiddly, it's complex, and it's really intended to provide DMs with a fig leaf of explanation for a check on Mystra's otherwise absolute power in the setting. With a different take on magic and the goddess of magic in the setting, the necessity of a Shadow Weave diminishes drastically. It's something we can live without. There are several other glaring examples (at least to me) but I'm not picking on any others in this forum.
So he admits they had some bad ideas in the past, such as his Shadow Weave, which created this problem they think they have now. Now they want to fix those past bad ideas by implementing a new bad idea, that they are sure we will like because it's so cool. 
Are any of the designers/authors of past bad ideas a part of this new 4E FR design group, and if so why? |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 16:53:16
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quote:
So he admits they had some bad ideas in the past, such as his Shadow Weave, which created this problem they think they have now. Now they want to fix those past bad ideas by implementing a new bad idea, that they are sure we will like because it's so cool.
Were the consequences of the Shadow Weave thought out, or was it just so 'cool' and 'rockin' an idea that no-one bothered? |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 17:21:38
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| I still don't have any clue why they think we NEED a new set. |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 22:19:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
I still don't have any clue why they think we NEED a new set.
New rules edition--new campaign reset with those rules, much like noon follows the dawn.
Steven
who knows it's not a satisfying answer, but it's the whole truth nonetheless |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 23:18:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
I still don't have any clue why they think we NEED a new set.
We as Realms fans do not need a new set, hell I think we might do without a new edition also. BUT WOTC wants to tap into new markets and whatnot, and those people need a new set, in their mindset... as if most of the current potential target group, with an attention span that makes the common housefly look patient, is actually interested.
Sure us old hands are growing...well...old, butif old means unimportant, it makes you wonder why so many people still go to a Rolling Stones concert, young AND old |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 04:50:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
I still don't have any clue why they think we NEED a new set.
New rules edition--new campaign reset with those rules, much like noon follows the dawn.
but after noon and eve the world normally remains about the same. One moves though seasons of course in those that have seasons.quote:
Steven
who knows it's not a satisfying answer, but it's the whole truth nonetheless
It is imposible to present the whole truth and nothing but the truth. No one can recall small details like what minute they said a word and so on. I do agree that the change or explaination of change is not satisfying. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 17:12:18
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Rich did post some replies yesterday or the day before but I felt they didn't need to be reposted cause they weren't really about 4e. However, today's post is and so:
"Short answer: The exact date of the new setting is touched on in an upcoming preview article, so it's not for me to scoop it early. That article probably won't hit until the holidays, or possibly early in '08."
and
"They are indeed separate books. Generally speaking, the Player's Guide has a lot of material very much like the first two chapters of the 3e FRCS -- info on races, regions, Realms spells/powers, and so forth -- plus a good "hero's-eye view" of what the world's like. The Campaign Guide has geography, monsters, villains, organizations, campaign-start areas, stuff like that. It's aimed at the DM." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 08 Nov 2007 17:12:46 |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 18:08:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
I still don't have any clue why they think we NEED a new set.
New rules edition--new campaign reset with those rules, much like noon follows the dawn.
Steven
who knows it's not a satisfying answer, but it's the whole truth nonetheless
the only problem is that no one has dread or bad feelings about the time of day. (unless of course you are awaiting your execution |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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4e FR
