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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
 Posted - 29 May 2008 : 23:23:36
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Glad that someone else apart from me agrees with me rants *grins*
One liter of potent Spanish wine does have its effects...and I gotta work in nine hours.......... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2008 : 09:04:10
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"Then focus on the other real money maker, novel sales."
If that is indeed the strategy, they can't lose. What, with all their "New York Times Bestselling Authors" no one outside the hobby has ever heard of. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2008 : 19:53:23
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Looking back over my last few posts, I was worried that some of my points may have been lost amidst all that 'angst'.
Glad to see you caught the most important one - The novel line exists BECAUSE of the setting - kill one, and you eventually kill the other.
Anyway, in the last two weeks I have reconciled myself to the inevitable 4e setting, and will try my best to create homebrew lore that 'patches' the two together. At this point, I'm not sure if I will use any version of FR for gaming, but I'd still like to contribute here and else where to help keep the Realms alive.
For better or worse, 4e FR is right around the corner. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Jul 2008 04:51:43 |
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danbuter
Seeker
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2008 : 04:58:56
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| The problem with your suggestion is that WotC sells probably 50 x more books than all the OGL publishers put together, if not more. Most of my DnD friend will _only_ buy WotC books. Which worked out for me, when I nailed them with stuff from the Book of Fiends and Tome of Horrors. |
Nothing beats the gray box!
Dan |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2008 : 04:58:46
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So you think your job as DM is to "get the players"?
4e should suit you to a 'T'. 
And times change, things change, people change... you learn that as you get older. I remember when VCRs came out, and I thought "Geez! This is terrific! Here's a technology that will stick around forever..." 
Don't even get me started on my awesome 8-track player. 
Does anyone remember Wetsons? They were McDonalds #1 competition back in the 60's. How about Voodoo FX? Best video-card company bar none. How about Grummanns? They built the LEM, made famous by that Apollo 13 movie. The problem with being numero uno is that everyone else in the business paints a great, big target on your back. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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capnvan
Senior Scribe
USA
592 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2008 : 08:14:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So you think your job as DM is to "get the players"?
Sometimes!  Heh heh heh...
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
*snip*
Don't even get me started on my awesome 8-track player.
Does anyone remember Wetsons? They were McDonalds #1 competition back in the 60's. How about Voodoo FX? Best video-card company bar none. How about Grummanns? They built the LEM, made famous by that Apollo 13 movie. The problem with being numero uno is that everyone else in the business paints a great, big target on your back.
Hey now - Grumman is still around as a part of Northrop Grumman:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman
Also, according to Wikipedia, that "Wetson's" place had all of 70 locations, all in the greater New York area. I know it's hard for you folks to remember, but there are other parts of the country... |
"Saving a life, though regrettable, is a small price to pay for a whole lifetime of unfettered killing." |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2008 : 16:32:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So you think your job as DM is to "get the players"?
4e should suit you to a 'T'.
Even though a stated design goal was to make the game more friendly to DMs and players? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2008 : 20:13:47
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
Hey now - Grumman is still around as a part of Northrop Grumman:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman
Considering I used to live down the block from one of their biggest plants, and then had to board-up the homes of all the Engineers who lost their jobs (when I did construction work for the banks) - there being 'eaten' by Northrop amounted to pretty much the same thing from where I'm standing.
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
Also, according to Wikipedia, that "Wetson's" place had all of 70 locations, all in the greater New York area. I know it's hard for you folks to remember, but there are other parts of the country...
McDonalds had LESS locations at one point in the 'Greater new York Area' the Wetsons (and I remember that).
And as a New Yorker, all I can say is... there something beyond our border?
That matters? 
Anyhow, my point is that no-one stays on top forever - its a lonely (and dangerous) - place to be. You only have one drection to go when your on top. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Jul 2008 19:49:45 |
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capnvan
Senior Scribe
USA
592 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2008 : 13:30:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And as a New Yorker, all I can say is... there something beyond our border?
That matters?
We know how you people think of the world:
http://www.thenewyorkerstore.com/assets/2/50326_l.jpg |
"Saving a life, though regrettable, is a small price to pay for a whole lifetime of unfettered killing." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37008 Posts |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2008 : 14:31:35
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Re: Forgotten Realms 4e
It's hard watching something you love die slowly in front of you.  |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2008 : 19:58:30
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Since I can't loose interest in the Realms (no matter how hard I try), I will probably just keep up with things in the novels, and forego any gaming material (which amounts to next to nothing anyway).
Even if it does mean watching it die.
I have no intention of running it anymore, since it seems kind of pointles to run a game in the past (knowing how things turn out), and I don't really care for the future. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a setting that novels take place in now.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And with that, I'm going to say we need to get back on topic.
Sorry Wooly - I was trying to make a point related to the topic, about 'product durability' in a free-marketplace, but the jist got lost somewhere. 
@capnvan - sadly, thats a very accurate view of our mentality.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2008 : 00:43:51
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Well, Ed's next novel, THE SWORD NEVER SLEEPS, is set back before the Time of Troubles, let alone the Spellplague. So you can enjoy it without any dark cloud.
For future post-Spellplague fiction, Ed promises he'll pull out all the stops to write the best darned novels he can. Yes, promise, really.
love to all,
THO |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2008 : 00:57:30
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| I know I'm looking forward to that one THO. |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2008 : 12:24:15
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| Ed's the only one that I trust to make the new Realms worthwhile. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2008 : 21:49:19
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Well, Ed's next novel, THE SWORD NEVER SLEEPS, is set back before the Time of Troubles, let alone the Spellplague. So you can enjoy it without any dark cloud.
That's one reason why I'm looking forward to it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2008 : 22:34:28
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Markustay, you and I and everyone know why Drizzt is still a live. The sales of his novels eclipse all. When I think about the Realms under 3e, I have to think that the Realms failed because Wizards couldn't support it. It became a novel driven setting because they couldn't possibly release enough supplements fast enough to cover complete conversion update. And why couldn't they release enough supplements?
It's not for lack of freelancers.
It's not for lack of art.
You could even try to blame a delay on 3.5 and having to take a step back.
But in the end, it comes down to money.
Every D&D supplement has to return a profit. Because every book after 3.5 was full color and hardcover, every book was significantly more expensive to product. Bean counters aren't going to accept WOTC spending all this money printing books and not getting more.
And lets face it, if you don't play Realms or don't like the Realms, D&D players probably weren't going to buy more then the FRCS.. if they even bought that. So you have all these really expensive to make books coming out with even more expensive price tags, and very few people buying them. It's a formula to FAIL.
That's why there will be only four 4E Realms supplements. They're giving the Realms enough to play in and that'll be that. Their core focus is selling splat books, not campaign settings. Based on their sales numbers, people don't want WOTC campaign settings. You either like the Realms or hate the Realms. You either like Eberron or you hate Eberron. My bet is there are fewer people buying Eberron books then Realms books and both combined are dwarfed in sales buy the splat books.
That's why companies like Green Ronin, Necromancer, and let's face it.. Paizo are running away with things. They have well written, well edited, and let's face it CHEAPER campaign settings to play it.
Look at 3e. Wizard abandoned Greyhawk, they couldn't afford to publish Dragonlance, and they didn't care what happened to Ravenloft when they licensed it. The only thing they did keep was the Forgotten Realms and they messed it up.
A very good analysis of how things stand at the moment. Let me just add that I suspect Hasbro will want WoTC to go "completely digital" in the coming years -- I would boldly predict that 5E will be published as PDFs *only*. And it is far, far more cheaper that way, as you eliminate any shipping and printing costs completely.
DDI is how they likely plan to make gamers more "comfortable" with using digital sources in play and online playing in general. This might also make any possible online D&D MMORPGs easier to market.
And as they won't publish more than 3-4 books for each setting -- and each setting getting only the "barebones" treatment -- it will ensure that many DMs (at least) will subscribe to DDI in hopes of getting more information in the form of articles.
It may be clever and more business-wise, but as a librarian and a bibliophile I detest the whole idea behing DDI and digital-format-only publishing. Paizo, on the other hand, seems to be recruiting all the designers and freelancers WoTC is ignoring now, *and* they actually communicate with their fans, offering great art and quality content -- some of the stuff for free, to boot. So for me it's not a tough decision to choose which company to support... |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2008 : 00:59:33
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
Ed's the only one that I trust to make the new Realms worthwhile.
I second that!
In Ed We Trust! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37008 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2008 : 01:38:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Let me just add that I suspect Hasbro will want WoTC to go "completely digital" in the coming years -- I would boldly predict that 5E will be published as PDFs *only*.
And it will be out in just a few years, along with much hype about how cool it is and how it will fix all the horribly broken stuff that sucked all vestiges of fun out of 4E. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2008 : 03:01:49
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I bet this would sound kind of far-fetched,
but has anybody thought about pooling our money
and trying to buy the rights of FR from Hasbro? |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2008 : 03:57:58
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Well! Today I finally got to tell Amazon.com that I was "Not Interested" in Forgotten Realms Player's Guide (Forgotten Realms Supplement) "by Wizards RPG Team (Author)," and instructed their little 'bot that wanting to buy Dungeons of Dread and D&D Miniatures Game Starter does not equate to a desire to buy anything else from Hasbro. As for the falsely-so-called "Forgotten Realms Player's Guide," ... <insert raspberry> ... the last good book written by a committee was the Bible!
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Edited by - Jamallo Kreen on 07 Jul 2008 04:48:14 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
37008 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2008 : 04:01:16
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quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
I bet this would sound kind of far-fetched,
but has anybody thought about pooling our money
and trying to buy the rights of FR from Hasbro?
I have. But it would take a much deeper pool than we can muster, I fear.
We might be able to manage a '63 Volkswagen, though. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2008 : 04:49:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
As for the falsely-so-called "Forgotten Realms Player's Guide," ... <insert raspberry> ... the last good book written by a committee was the Bible!
LOL |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2008 : 14:41:20
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I wonder how much of Ed's writing will make it past the WotC editors?
@Asgetrion, I reckon that you're right about 5e being digital only. |
Edited by - arry on 07 Jul 2008 14:42:51 |
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2008 : 22:00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
I bet this would sound kind of far-fetched,
but has anybody thought about pooling our money
and trying to buy the rights of FR from Hasbro?
I have. But it would take a much deeper pool than we can muster, I fear.
We might be able to manage a '63 Volkswagen, though.
I dunno, that 63 VW could be considered a classic and cost more..
Now an Alfa-Romeo however..... |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2008 : 23:21:26
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Or at least the petrol for it. 
Maybe we can convert it to run on used cooking oil and we can take turns driving from one fast food joint to the next!!! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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capnvan
Senior Scribe
USA
592 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2008 : 16:44:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Let me just add that I suspect Hasbro will want WoTC to go "completely digital" in the coming years -- I would boldly predict that 5E will be published as PDFs *only*. And it is far, far more cheaper that way, as you eliminate any shipping and printing costs completely.
While of course the shipping and printing costs do come in to play, keep in mind 2 things with regard to a switch to all-digital:
1. Paper equals a certain level of "prestige." It gets you into bookstores, etc. It's also much harder to pirate, something that large companies relatively new to the digital world, like Hasbro, seem to have an inordinate fear of.
2. Keep in mind that hardcover books are generally seen in the publishing world as a profit-maker - despite having to pay more for printing and shipping, the increase in price more than offsets that. At $40 for the FRCG, you're looking at an extremely healthy profit margin built-in. Much like your favorite software or music, once you cover your costs, you're looking at a fat profit.
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
DDI is how they likely plan to make gamers more "comfortable" with using digital sources in play and online playing in general. This might also make any possible online D&D MMORPGs easier to market.
I don't think they need DDI to market a D&D MMORPG - they'd just need to have a better product than WoW, et al. Given how badly they've screwed up their online offerings so far, I don't think Blizzard has a lot to worry about any time soon.
However, I do think that rather than trying to get gamers more comfortable with digital sources and online play (I suspect many of them already are), I think that Hasbro has been looking at Blizzard and the other purveyors of MMORPG for years and drooling over what they perceive as an unbelievable profit well.
I don't think they have the vaguest clue about how hard it is to actually deliver the goods. But then, I just base that on the fact the DDI (supposedly an integral part of 4E!) still hasn't launched - there's not even an anticipated date!
I really do believe that the execs at Hasbro have looked over at Blizzard, et al., seen some of the numbers they're putting up, and basically told WOTC, "Go do that!"
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
And as they won't publish more than 3-4 books for each setting -- and each setting getting only the "barebones" treatment -- it will ensure that many DMs (at least) will subscribe to DDI in hopes of getting more information in the form of articles.
That sense of a desperate longing for more lore has been the only reason I've considered subscribing! But then, so much of the crap that they've been putting out in the "free taste" period has been such relentless drivel...
On the other hand, when I do wander back over to the WOTC boards, there seems to be a fair number of people who are gung-ho about everything, however, pathetically bad. |
"Saving a life, though regrettable, is a small price to pay for a whole lifetime of unfettered killing." |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2008 : 23:10:12
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quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
I bet this would sound kind of far-fetched,
but has anybody thought about pooling our money
and trying to buy the rights of FR from Hasbro?
No offense but that does sound far-fetched. Even if we raised enough money (and I don't think we could), WotC could simply decide not to sell the IP to us. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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capnvan
Senior Scribe
USA
592 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2008 : 00:19:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
I bet this would sound kind of far-fetched,
but has anybody thought about pooling our money
and trying to buy the rights of FR from Hasbro?
No offense but that does sound far-fetched. Even if we raised enough money (and I don't think we could), WotC could simply decide not to sell the IP to us.
No offense should be taken - given what just RAS' novels take in, it's a pretty silly idea. |
"Saving a life, though regrettable, is a small price to pay for a whole lifetime of unfettered killing." |
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4e FR
