| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 20:59:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
I find it more and more difficult to look at my realms stuff these days because of 4E. :(
I just ignore the entries after 1375 DR in GHotR. That helps  |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
 |
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 22:16:52
|
| I haven't been on the WOTC boards in a few days but it turns out that on the 14th of this month Rich asked that his posts be kept on the WOTC boards and so I won't be posting his posts here any more. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 21 Feb 2008 22:17:57 |
|
|
|
DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 22:37:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I haven't been on the WOTC boards in a few days but it turns out that on the 14th of this month Rich asked that his posts be kept on the WOTC boards and so I won't be posting his posts here any more.
Kuje, is there a reason for that? I mean, it doesn't really matter, does it? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
|
|
|
crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 22:54:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Kuje, is there a reason for that? I mean, it doesn't really matter, does it?
info only I guess - so if you have a question about 4E that you would like Rich to answer then you ned to post over at WoTC.
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
|
|
|
l33td0ggy
Acolyte
25 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 22:57:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I haven't been on the WOTC boards in a few days but it turns out that on the 14th of this month Rich asked that his posts be kept on the WOTC boards and so I won't be posting his posts here any more.
Kuje, is there a reason for that? I mean, it doesn't really matter, does it?
he says it makes his bosses think hes running an independnet gig. seems a weak excuyse to me. |
i have no sig. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 23:25:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Kuje, is there a reason for that? I mean, it doesn't really matter, does it?
info only I guess - so if you have a question about 4E that you would like Rich to answer then you ned to post over at WoTC.
Cheers
Damian
That doesn't work for me, since I was wrongfully banned from those forums. I won't go back there as long as the ban remains, so I'm SOL for asking questions.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 23:49:55
|
But this is stupid... It's like an event occurs and CNN first reports that event on TV. Does this mean that FOX, ABC, and NBC can't make their own reports on their respective news shows?
Especially since this information isn't private or some kind of secret. Anyone can access the WotC forums and read the posts and spread the word so even making that declaration is just making him and WotC look bad. I can understand if Rich posts all his releases and announcements on the WotC forums since it is the "official" forum but not being able to pass it outside of the forums is dumb. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
|
|
SiCK_Boy
Acolyte
Canada
40 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 01:21:55
|
Kuje said he wouldn't copy/paste Rich's posts and answers from the Wizards' boards to the Candlekeep's forum. Nothing prevents anyone else from doing so.
After all, even if Rich asks something from the public, who's to say the public has to obey?
Plenty of people asked Rich to do a lot of stuff (like not changing the Realms so much), and he didn't listen. |
Edited by - SiCK_Boy on 22 Feb 2008 01:23:31 |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 01:26:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by l33td0ggy
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I haven't been on the WOTC boards in a few days but it turns out that on the 14th of this month Rich asked that his posts be kept on the WOTC boards and so I won't be posting his posts here any more.
Kuje, is there a reason for that? I mean, it doesn't really matter, does it?
he says it makes his bosses think hes running an independnet gig. seems a weak excuyse to me.
That is what Rich said and so I'm respecting what he asked. If someone else wants to post the replies, have at it. However, I'm respecting Rich's wishes. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 02:18:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiCK_Boy
Kuje said he wouldn't copy/paste Rich's posts and answers from the Wizards' boards to the Candlekeep's forum. Nothing prevents anyone else from doing so.
After all, even if Rich asks something from the public, who's to say the public has to obey?
Plenty of people asked Rich to do a lot of stuff (like not changing the Realms so much), and he didn't listen.
Sickboy, I wouldn't put it that way. I am arguing against this because it's a notion that wouldn't work anyways so it's a stupid suggestion to begin with. I don't want to spite Rich Baker because I think he's a fantastic writer and if WotC decides to lay down the rules he's not going to disobey or else he's going to be looking for a new job.
I respect him for following orders, but I think the orders are moronic.
Like Wooly said, spreading Rich's posts and announcements is beneficial to WotC because it spreads the word outside of that forum. One example: I recently started posting back in this forum because I found out about 4E and the Spellplague and wished to know more about it. So I googled for information, and guess what? The most useful results that I found came not from WotC but from other D&D forums and from Candlekeep.
I personally don't like WotC's forum because I find them too anal so I like to post here. It doesn't make me or any of the other vistors to this forum any less of a FR fan. Frankly, I find it a bit insulting too to exclude us since we spend just as much money as others buying WotC products. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
|
|
|
SiCK_Boy
Acolyte
Canada
40 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 03:09:46
|
Not sure what suggestion you are calling stupid. I didn't make any suggestion.
I simply stated what I perceived to be Kuje's intention, which he confirmed in his own reply afterward.
I didn't see any rule on Candlekeep against quoting elements found elsewhere on the Internet, including the Wizards's boards. Although I'm concious that the general rule is to post links rather than long copy of texts from other pages, I still don't see on what basis anyone could be prevented, if he so wished, to copy and paste all or part of Rich Baker posts from the Wizards' boards to the Candlekeep forums.
Are you implying WotC could have Rich Baker lose his job because his comments are being reprinted elsewhere on the Internet?
My main point is that Rich Baker can gently ask to have his post kept on the Wizards' board. I personnaly won't be copying said posts over here. But anyone can gently refuse to do as Rich asks. After all, he's part of a PR team for a huge corporation. He should be used to having his words being used elsewhere on the Internet. |
Edited by - SiCK_Boy on 22 Feb 2008 03:11:01 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 03:24:13
|
Rich has asked that his posts not be copied elsewhere. We may question the reasoning, but I think we should honor his request. After all, we have many designers and authors here, including Rich himself. How's it going to look if we ignore that request? It's better for all involved if we respect his wishes.
And I don't see that there's any need to keep discussing it.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 03:30:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by l33td0ggy
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I haven't been on the WOTC boards in a few days but it turns out that on the 14th of this month Rich asked that his posts be kept on the WOTC boards and so I won't be posting his posts here any more.
Kuje, is there a reason for that? I mean, it doesn't really matter, does it?
he says it makes his bosses think hes running an independnet gig. seems a weak excuyse to me.
That is what Rich said and so I'm respecting what he asked. If someone else wants to post the replies, have at it. However, I'm respecting Rich's wishes.
What about refering to the Wizards site with a link to the thread, plus the page number and post number of the reply for people to look up? I mean it is giving the business to Wizards, yet helping people find the reply easier here? Should we ask Rich that? |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 04:29:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
What about refering to the Wizards site with a link to the thread, plus the page number and post number of the reply for people to look up? I mean it is giving the business to Wizards, yet helping people find the reply easier here? Should we ask Rich that?
You could ask Rich any of those questions but as far as I'm concerned, I'm not going to get involved. He asked what he asked and as far as I'm concerned, the matter is over for me. If someone else wants to take it up with him or wants to post his replies, then that is your choice but I'm done with bringing his posts over here due to what he asked. As Wooly said, its not something I care to publicly debate any more and I'm respecting what he asked. I'd do the same if any game designer/author asked the same type of request. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 05:52:15
|
Well, just to put in my two cents worth -
He specifically mentioned a problem with ENWORLD, not CK. He did state that he wished people wouldn't quote him on other sites, but form the rest of his post, it appears his main problem was with that site in particular.
People have a habit of taking apart someone's post and either reading into it, or deducing too much information from it.
I should know - I do it to him all the time.
If you keep track of the questions he answers, and the ones he ignores, avoids, or 'skates around', you can learn a lot more by what isn't being said.
Anyway, because he has always behaved curteously toward myself and the community at large, I too will respect his wishes. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 06:16:45
|
Okay, I think we've all spent long enough discussing this particular side-issue. If Rich feels there's anything more that needs to be said, he's free to talk about it here if he so wishes. So let's just leave it at that. It's his decision.
Now, let us return to actual 4e FR discussion.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 22 Feb 2008 06:19:30 |
|
|
|
DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 06:26:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiCK_Boy
Not sure what suggestion you are calling stupid. I didn't make any suggestion.
I simply stated what I perceived to be Kuje's intention, which he confirmed in his own reply afterward.
I didn't see any rule on Candlekeep against quoting elements found elsewhere on the Internet, including the Wizards's boards. Although I'm concious that the general rule is to post links rather than long copy of texts from other pages, I still don't see on what basis anyone could be prevented, if he so wished, to copy and paste all or part of Rich Baker posts from the Wizards' boards to the Candlekeep forums.
Are you implying WotC could have Rich Baker lose his job because his comments are being reprinted elsewhere on the Internet?
My main point is that Rich Baker can gently ask to have his post kept on the Wizards' board. I personnaly won't be copying said posts over here. But anyone can gently refuse to do as Rich asks. After all, he's part of a PR team for a huge corporation. He should be used to having his words being used elsewhere on the Internet.
Sickboy, I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean to say what you said was stupid. I meant Rich Baker stating that his posts should stay in the WotC forums. I apologize for any misunderstanding.
Anyways, back to the 4E discussion... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
|
|
|
StarBog
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 14:55:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
I find it more and more difficult to look at my realms stuff these days because of 4E. :(
Chin up, old bean. As Mace said, just ignore the stuff you don't like. At least WOTC won't be coming round your house the night before 4e is launched and shredding all your 3e stuff.
It'll always be 1374 DR if you want it to be. |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12011 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 15:02:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
That sort of "social-combat" would be better made not by rolling dice but by playing cards like in these card games: in your normal deck there are the most basic skills like “persuade + 4”, “diplomacy + 3”, etc, which you can throw at your opponent, and then there are booster packs with special cards like the above mentioned “thwart all arguments” etc. which make a “social-combat” much more unpredictable.
So if only WotC could be convinced to make something like such a card game for battling your opponents … now, wait a minute ...
Someone's been playing the online game of Vanguard. I must admit, that was a fun interaction for an online game, but I'd hate to see it hit D&D. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12011 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 15:58:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
quote:
Originally posted by SiCK_Boy
Kuje said he wouldn't copy/paste Rich's posts and answers from the Wizards' boards to the Candlekeep's forum. Nothing prevents anyone else from doing so.
After all, even if Rich asks something from the public, who's to say the public has to obey?
Plenty of people asked Rich to do a lot of stuff (like not changing the Realms so much), and he didn't listen.
Sickboy, I wouldn't put it that way. I am arguing against this because it's a notion that wouldn't work anyways so it's a stupid suggestion to begin with. I don't want to spite Rich Baker because I think he's a fantastic writer and if WotC decides to lay down the rules he's not going to disobey or else he's going to be looking for a new job.
I respect him for following orders, but I think the orders are moronic.
Like Wooly said, spreading Rich's posts and announcements is beneficial to WotC because it spreads the word outside of that forum. One example: I recently started posting back in this forum because I found out about 4E and the Spellplague and wished to know more about it. So I googled for information, and guess what? The most useful results that I found came not from WotC but from other D&D forums and from Candlekeep.
I personally don't like WotC's forum because I find them too anal so I like to post here. It doesn't make me or any of the other vistors to this forum any less of a FR fan. Frankly, I find it a bit insulting too to exclude us since we spend just as much money as others buying WotC products.
Quick thought on this. In the future, will the forums at WotC only be open to subscribers to D&D InSite? If they will be, then I see this as strong arming by WotC to make people pay for their service in order to get access to writers.... and frankly, THAT pisses me off if its the case.
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 16:21:37
|
| So far there is no indication that the forums will become a part of the fee system. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 16:46:49
|
WotC would be very foolish to require people to pay to access their forums...
...Of course, looking at what's going on with 4E and the Sellplague, I can't rule out such a move!
In all seriousness, though, free forums are something they can only benefit from. WotC forums have a very large membership base, and charging a fee would drive away all but the most dedicated posters. Such a move would anger thousands of fans, all across the board (unlike the Sellplague, which has only angered the FR fans, and then not even all of us). The potential gain (a few more bucks for the bean counters) would be greatly offset by the losses (negative PR and fans deciding not to touch a game they can't talk about or ask questions about).
Off the top of my head, I only know of one forum that charges a fee for membership. It's one for IT people. And though I've stumbled across it several times while Googling an issue, I refuse to join -- mainly because I'm not going to blindly spend a monthly amount for something that may not help me and that I won't use oft, and that I can likely find elsewhere for free. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 16:47:20
|
Wooly, if you have questions, you could send them to me and I'll post them to Rich's thread. I'll PM you the answers.
|
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 22 Feb 2008 16:57:56 |
|
|
|
DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 17:21:03
|
| Back to the topic, has there been any previews on the upcoming 4E products that will be released? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
|
|
|
Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 19:15:47
|
What's really strange (Sellplague seems more appropriate than ever) is that the 3rd party producers that have paid their 5k for an advance info and stuff for 4e haven't even received the OGL...or whatever it is called, plus no NDA etc.
Cynic that I am: what the frak is going on with that???
Not that it matters to me either way because I'm going to pass on 4e in general (pumped way too much money into 3.x as it is), but why the bleeding hell do they screw up every potential 4e producer's schedule?
Wolfgang Baur may not have the constraints that Paizo has, but the way it seems to be turning out none of the schedule-based (for lack of a better term) companies will be able to produce 4e stuff at the time 4e comes out, an event for which they have already purchased their rights to do so... pretty frakking weird! |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
|
|
|
coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 19:34:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
What's really strange (Sellplague seems more appropriate than ever) is that the 3rd party producers that have paid their 5k for an advance info and stuff for 4e haven't even received the OGL...or whatever it is called, plus no NDA etc.
Cynic that I am: what the frak is going on with that???
Not that it matters to me either way because I'm going to pass on 4e in general (pumped way too much money into 3.x as it is), but why the bleeding hell do they screw up every potential 4e producer's schedule?
Wolfgang Baur may not have the constraints that Paizo has, but the way it seems to be turning out none of the schedule-based (for lack of a better term) companies will be able to produce 4e stuff at the time 4e comes out, an event for which they have already purchased their rights to do so... pretty frakking weird!
it is simple really, they want ONLY their products on the market for the first few months ... if you want any new 4e stuff it will HAVE to be WotC products for awhile
(i.e. sellplague) |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
|
|
|
Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 19:42:15
|
That would go against what Wizards said before...plus it would be one of the most interesting ways of shamming "competitors" out of a couple grands... as many (Paizo, GMG, WW, Wolfgang Baur, Mongoose I think also) people paid the 5k to be the first after wotc to be allowed to use the rules. I mean you get that kind of spam mail where people tell you that if you pay amount x to them you'll receive something or other without you really receiving anything. I am a cynic, but eve I doubt that wotc would go for this kind of sham, and if they did we all (should) know to show them the finger and tell them to frak themselves.
Not only do they treat the customer base like crap (great way to do business btw.) but it seems that they do the same to their business partners.
Maybe that's how Hasbro got big in the first place...screwing people out of their money with empty promises |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 19:52:57
|
Okay, first of all, WotC may be owned by Hasbro, but I'm seriously doubting that Hasbro is doing anything more than issuing broad orders like "increase sales". I can't see Hasbro saying "hey, let's have this minor branch of our company screw over their customers!"
Secondly, we're all too willing to cast the blame here, when we only know one side of what's going on -- if even that much. Okay, so somebody hasn't received their 4E OGL. This isn't necessarily any kind of maliciousness. It could be something as simple as a delay in having the OGL ready, due to either playtesting or WotC's legal department wanting to make sure that people can't even type "OGL" without crediting WotC.
We've got enough to be angry about with the Sellplague. I don't think we need to go looking for more reasons to be mad. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 20:46:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Okay, first of all, WotC may be owned by Hasbro, but I'm seriously doubting that Hasbro is doing anything more than issuing broad orders like "increase sales". I can't see Hasbro saying "hey, let's have this minor branch of our company screw over their customers!"
Secondly, we're all too willing to cast the blame here, when we only know one side of what's going on -- if even that much. Okay, so somebody hasn't received their 4E OGL. This isn't necessarily any kind of maliciousness. It could be something as simple as a delay in having the OGL ready, due to either playtesting or WotC's legal department wanting to make sure that people can't even type "OGL" without crediting WotC.
We've got enough to be angry about with the Sellplague. I don't think we need to go looking for more reasons to be mad.
I'm not angry about this...just kinda ... well...surprised and shocked at the way they treat paying "partners", Wooly |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
4e FR
