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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Feb 2008 : 19:24:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Theophilus
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Here's the problem, even if 4E Realms sucks find, guess what, there's no escaping it. Sure we can play in the 3E timeline frame. Sure we can ignore spell plague. BUT, the novel, the novels will continue with into the new timeline meaning we give the novel line up as well.
You can still read the stories. They just won't be "canon" for YOUR version of the Realms.
Optimistic Rin - but what happens if it sucks so bad that the setting folds?
that is the ONLY point of light I see in a 100 year (or other giant time) leap ... "new FR" goes the way of Fifth Age or Second Generation Dragonlance, the setting is ruined, Ed gets it back and says "Relax friends, all this never happened - rewind to 1375 and welcome back!" |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2008 : 01:50:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Why couldn't WE get Mr. Wyatt?
Well, I'm not sure he'd be an "antidote", because--going by some of his past comments--he seems to believe the Realms need fixing as strongly as anyone else. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2008 : 01:51:43
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quote:
Originally posted by coach
that is the ONLY point of light I see in a 100 year (or other giant time) leap ... "new FR" goes the way of Fifth Age or Second Generation Dragonlance, the setting is ruined, Ed gets it back and says "Relax friends, all this never happened - rewind to 1375 and welcome back!"
It'd be nice if that happened...but I'm not holding my breath for it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2008 : 15:07:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
There's definately going to be a 4e - James Wyatt is in charge of that and he's already promised a 'light touch' in regards to shoe-horning the new rules into the setting, and they will get NO time-jump.
Why couldn't WE get Mr. Wyatt?
Once all the bugs are worked out of the system in the FR test-bed, they will release the 'pefected' (4.5?) rules for Eberron.
Of course. It's wizards trying to see if they want to self-actualize (i.e. more money) |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2008 : 15:15:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
What will become our PC in 95 years ? Humans and short life span PCs will be dead... during this 95 year-old-no-events-period.
I cannot do the link with my PCs today, their death (that I really refuse !) and 1479 DR !
The Campaign Guide will have advice for moving your characters to the new time period (time portal, temporal stasis, playing descendants, etc...)
ok, but will it have a section on how to get an entire region and its NPC's moved to the new time period?
somehow I don't seem to think that "you could say that your entire region was frozen in time by the spellplague and the magical disruption wouldn't allow travel into and out of the area" will cut it with my players
some are dropping already even BEFORE i have come up with a solution
it seems we (longterm FR fans) are being punished because our setting is the most popular (i.e. the one that will pull the most new fans) irregardless of what it does to the longterm FR fans
most of the longterm FR fans didn't mind the high magic setting and high powered NPC's |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2008 : 15:44:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Well, I'm not sure he'd be an "antidote", because--going by some of his past comments--he seems to believe the Realms need fixing as strongly as anyone else.
Which is pretty funny to hear, considering that the Realms didn't NEED fixing until after the WotC crew got their hands on it and started the trend of 'RSE Event of the Year'. |
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l33td0ggy
Acolyte
25 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2008 : 16:15:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Well, I'm not sure he'd be an "antidote", because--going by some of his past comments--he seems to believe the Realms need fixing as strongly as anyone else.
Which is pretty funny to hear, considering that the Realms didn't NEED fixing until after the WotC crew got their hands on it and started the trend of 'RSE Event of the Year'.
it's more like RSE of the month. and don't forget tjhe never-ending year of the drow! |
i have no sig. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2008 : 18:03:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Which is pretty funny to hear, considering that the Realms didn't NEED fixing until after the WotC crew got their hands on it and started the trend of 'RSE Event of the Year'.
First they 'broke' it, and now their idea of fixing it is smashing it to bits with a sledgehammer. 
I'm trying to keep an open mind about 4e FR, until I purchase the FRCG - after that, all bets are off.
Wouldn't it be funny/sad if the FRCG was the greatest-selling FR book of all time, and then everything that comes out for 4e FR after it is a dismal failure?
Because you know, EVERYONE will buy the FRCG, even if just out of morbid curiousity, which will totally skew WotC into believing its a huge success. then they pour everything they got into it, and it tanks...
Ironic, huh?
Either way, success or failure, I don't see much good coming from this. If it IS a success, that will just make them change FR MORE drastically when 5e comes out.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2008 : 18:59:55
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| I am wondering what 4E realms will truly look like in the end, but like many have said beofre, the only thing ruining the realms is the non-stop RSEs....because there is nothing else wrong with it (there are NOT too many deities, not imo anyways and NOT too much lore/history). |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2008 : 10:49:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
[quote]Originally posted by Ardashir
Wouldn't it be funny/sad if the FRCG was the greatest-selling FR book of all time, and then everything that comes out for 4e FR after it is a dismal failure?
Because you know, EVERYONE will buy the FRCG, even if just out of morbid curiousity, which will totally skew WotC into believing its a huge success. then they pour everything they got into it, and it tanks...
Ironic, huh?
Either way, success or failure, I don't see much good coming from this. If it IS a success, that will just make them change FR MORE drastically when 5e comes out.
I'm morbidly curious too, but I'll wait until the first curious realms fans dump their 4e FRCS in disgust on ebay. I hope I'll find a copy without spittle stains. 
sorry for being so prejudiced... just had to vent a bit of sellplague-induced frustration! |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2008 : 12:06:47
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| Whatever happens I'm sure WotC will find some way to blame it on the fans |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2008 : 22:12:14
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quote:
Originally posted by l33td0ggy
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Well, I'm not sure he'd be an "antidote", because--going by some of his past comments--he seems to believe the Realms need fixing as strongly as anyone else.
Which is pretty funny to hear, considering that the Realms didn't NEED fixing until after the WotC crew got their hands on it and started the trend of 'RSE Event of the Year'.
it's more like RSE of the month. and don't forget tjhe never-ending year of the drow!
True, the problem of "so many RSEs" was definitely self-inflicted as well as very recent (that is, not a legacy from TSR or anything, although TSR was guilty of RSEs as well). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2008 : 22:14:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Because you know, EVERYONE will buy the FRCG, even if just out of morbid curiousity, which will totally skew WotC into believing its a huge success. then they pour everything they got into it, and it tanks...
I'm not going to buy it. :) I'm not going to vote for the changes with my wallet, not even for the sake of curiosity.
If my curiosity gets the better of me, I will by the book second-hand. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2008 : 00:04:04
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| i'll proberly just end up stalling the bookstore till i've read enough ... not that it should take long with how it looks |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2008 : 17:04:34
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i have read this whole thread (over 3 days LOL) and i still can't fathom WotC's reason, i HAVE to have a logical reason they are nuking Faerun to make me feel good about it
i get the "Chosen problem" where authors have to explain why they don't solve all the world's problems.
i get the "we have to explain 4E changes without retconning"
i get the "need to appeal to the 12-20 crowd" to sell DnD to newbies
Fine
have your lil Sellplague and have their powers lessened or changed and then maybe eevn advance the timeline FIVE OR TEN YEARS ...
Why ONE HUNDRED?!? (especially due to the fact that Eberron remains unchanged so they can't tell me that it was because all of the 4E changes) |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
Edited by - coach on 11 Feb 2008 17:07:38 |
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admcewen
Acolyte
United Kingdom
21 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2008 : 18:48:14
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quote:
Originally posted by coach
i have read this whole thread (over 3 days LOL) and i still can't fathom WotC's reason, i HAVE to have a logical reason they are nuking Faerun to make me feel good about it
i get the "Chosen problem" where authors have to explain why they don't solve all the world's problems.
i get the "we have to explain 4E changes without retconning"
i get the "need to appeal to the 12-20 crowd" to sell DnD to newbies
Fine
have your lil Sellplague and have their powers lessened or changed and then maybe eevn advance the timeline FIVE OR TEN YEARS ...
Why ONE HUNDRED?!? (especially due to the fact that Eberron remains unchanged so they can't tell me that it was because all of the 4E changes)
Eberron can move forward any number of years but to be honest WOTC don't have to retcon quite so much as Eberron has less canon lore so allowing some flexibility in explaining any major changes, where as the Realms has so much highly detailed canon lore that simply inserting all the changes over a short period of time would be difficult to retcon as easily as moving the timeline forward 94 years allowing a longer time period to retcon any major changes without affecting earlier Realms lore. |
"I am the hippy of calm and I bring you peace"
"Any thing with more than one head is bad" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2008 : 19:40:18
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quote:
Originally posted by admcewen
quote:
Originally posted by coach
i have read this whole thread (over 3 days LOL) and i still can't fathom WotC's reason, i HAVE to have a logical reason they are nuking Faerun to make me feel good about it
i get the "Chosen problem" where authors have to explain why they don't solve all the world's problems.
i get the "we have to explain 4E changes without retconning"
i get the "need to appeal to the 12-20 crowd" to sell DnD to newbies
Fine
have your lil Sellplague and have their powers lessened or changed and then maybe eevn advance the timeline FIVE OR TEN YEARS ...
Why ONE HUNDRED?!? (especially due to the fact that Eberron remains unchanged so they can't tell me that it was because all of the 4E changes)
Eberron can move forward any number of years but to be honest WOTC don't have to retcon quite so much as Eberron has less canon lore so allowing some flexibility in explaining any major changes, where as the Realms has so much highly detailed canon lore that simply inserting all the changes over a short period of time would be difficult to retcon as easily as moving the timeline forward 94 years allowing a longer time period to retcon any major changes without affecting earlier Realms lore.
Of course, not inflicting major changes negates the need for a timejump or for a retcon...  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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admcewen
Acolyte
United Kingdom
21 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2008 : 20:09:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by admcewen
quote:
Originally posted by coach
i have read this whole thread (over 3 days LOL) and i still can't fathom WotC's reason, i HAVE to have a logical reason they are nuking Faerun to make me feel good about it
i get the "Chosen problem" where authors have to explain why they don't solve all the world's problems.
i get the "we have to explain 4E changes without retconning"
i get the "need to appeal to the 12-20 crowd" to sell DnD to newbies
Fine
have your lil Sellplague and have their powers lessened or changed and then maybe eevn advance the timeline FIVE OR TEN YEARS ...
Why ONE HUNDRED?!? (especially due to the fact that Eberron remains unchanged so they can't tell me that it was because all of the 4E changes)
Eberron can move forward any number of years but to be honest WOTC don't have to retcon quite so much as Eberron has less canon lore so allowing some flexibility in explaining any major changes, where as the Realms has so much highly detailed canon lore that simply inserting all the changes over a short period of time would be difficult to retcon as easily as moving the timeline forward 94 years allowing a longer time period to retcon any major changes without affecting earlier Realms lore.
Of course, not inflicting major changes negates the need for a timejump or for a retcon...
Good point, but as I understand it so far 4th Ed is going to be quiet different from 3rd mainly because some designers have said that to transfer straight over with an existing character would be difficult if not impossible, hence the major changes to fit the new rules... |
"I am the hippy of calm and I bring you peace"
"Any thing with more than one head is bad" |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 19:20:08
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""""designers have said that to transfer straight over with an existing character would be difficult if not impossible""""
so Driz'zt won't have stats for 4e?!
well, at least there is one good thing to come out of this :) |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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admcewen
Acolyte
United Kingdom
21 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 19:48:16
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quote:
Originally posted by coach
""""designers have said that to transfer straight over with an existing character would be difficult if not impossible""""
so Driz'zt won't have stats for 4e?!
well, at least there is one good thing to come out of this :)
Hey I didn't think about that "bonus" All though I'm sure they'll flang some how, gotta keep the cashcow going. |
"I am the hippy of calm and I bring you peace"
"Any thing with more than one head is bad" |
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l33td0ggy
Acolyte
25 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 19:57:55
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quote:
Originally posted by admcewen
quote:
Originally posted by coach
""""designers have said that to transfer straight over with an existing character would be difficult if not impossible""""
so Driz'zt won't have stats for 4e?!
well, at least there is one good thing to come out of this :)
Hey I didn't think about that "bonus" All though I'm sure they'll flang some how, gotta keep the cashcow going.
they'll just make up new stats like they alwasy do.there's no way they won't coninue to milk that cow. drizzt will prolly be stated out on the first page of the frcs. |
i have no sig. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 22:18:34
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quote:
Originally posted by coach
""""designers have said that to transfer straight over with an existing character would be difficult if not impossible""""
so Driz'zt won't have stats for 4e?!
well, at least there is one good thing to come out of this :)
You just know they are going to create new stats for Drizzt... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 22:22:54
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Here is a frightful thought: "The Complete Book of Drizzt" wherein every stage of the character is shown.
and its sequel "The Complete Book of Drizzt: People He Knew"
followed by "The Complete Book of Drizzt: People He Knows" |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 22:30:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Here is a frightful thought: "The Complete Book of Drizzt" wherein every stage of the character is shown.
and its sequel "The Complete Book of Drizzt: People He Knew"
followed by "The Complete Book of Drizzt: People He Knows"
Thing is, I wouldn't be surprised if they put out a book like that... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2008 : 07:32:01
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quote:
Originally posted by coach
""""designers have said that to transfer straight over with an existing character would be difficult if not impossible""""
so Driz'zt won't have stats for 4e?!
Excellent news, thats how it should be, no stats at all for NPC's, why stifle creativity and make every NPC homogenous in every game?
I hate stats and stat blocks, I would much rather know Jaethra Coppercoin is a CG HF W3 (chaotic good, human female Wizard 3) who is small, with long brown hair and blue eyes, that is known to have a strange affliction of singing nonsense rhymes when drunk - than the half page write up you get with 3.x of skills and feats. I can make up spells known/carried and any skills/special abilites/stats etc thats easy. However, coming up with a name, dreams and schemes, firends and enemies, past history, current projects is more difficult.
So the less stat blocks the better (one can dream ok? I know that 4E will be as crunch heavy as 3E *sigh*)
Cheers
Damian
ps would make do with just Jaethra Coppercoin is a CG HF W3 thank you very much |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
Edited by - crazedventurers on 13 Feb 2008 07:34:04 |
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2008 : 07:55:59
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
Damian
ps would make do with just Jaethra Coppercoin is a CG HF W3 thank you very much
I would make due with "Jaethra Coppercoin, CG HF W3, single, brown hair, blue eyes, looking for that special someone who likes poetry in taverns, long walks in Sea Ward, and can defend them self in Dock Ward. Leave a note at Sune's temple."  |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2008 : 11:24:32
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
quote:
Originally posted by coach
""""designers have said that to transfer straight over with an existing character would be difficult if not impossible""""
so Driz'zt won't have stats for 4e?!
Excellent news, thats how it should be, no stats at all for NPC's, why stifle creativity and make every NPC homogenous in every game?
I hate stats and stat blocks, I would much rather know Jaethra Coppercoin is a CG HF W3 (chaotic good, human female Wizard 3) who is small, with long brown hair and blue eyes, that is known to have a strange affliction of singing nonsense rhymes when drunk - than the half page write up you get with 3.x of skills and feats. I can make up spells known/carried and any skills/special abilites/stats etc thats easy. However, coming up with a name, dreams and schemes, firends and enemies, past history, current projects is more difficult.
So the less stat blocks the better (one can dream ok? I know that 4E will be as crunch heavy as 3E *sigh*)
Cheers
Damian
ps would make do with just Jaethra Coppercoin is a CG HF W3 thank you very much
That was something I liked about 1E and 2E... But 3E had to detail everything to the nth degree, to insure that everything under the sun could be fought. I fear 4E will continue that sad trend. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2008 : 22:59:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Which is pretty funny to hear, considering that the Realms didn't NEED fixing until after the WotC crew got their hands on it and started the trend of 'RSE Event of the Year'.
First they 'broke' it, and now their idea of fixing it is smashing it to bits with a sledgehammer.
I'm trying to keep an open mind about 4e FR, until I purchase the FRCG - after that, all bets are off.
Wouldn't it be funny/sad if the FRCG was the greatest-selling FR book of all time, and then everything that comes out for 4e FR after it is a dismal failure?
Because you know, EVERYONE will buy the FRCG, even if just out of morbid curiousity, which will totally skew WotC into believing its a huge success. then they pour everything they got into it, and it tanks...
Ironic, huh?
Either way, success or failure, I don't see much good coming from this. If it IS a success, that will just make them change FR MORE drastically when 5e comes out.
You could just read it at your local FLGS or library, which is what I intend to do. In any case I'm not going to buy it, since my group has voted to keep playing 3E, and so far I have absolutely hated what I've seen of 4E FR. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2008 : 12:55:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Here is a frightful thought: "The Complete Book of Drizzt" wherein every stage of the character is shown.
and its sequel "The Complete Book of Drizzt: People He Knew"
followed by "The Complete Book of Drizzt: People He Knows"
Don't forget "The Complete Book of Drizzt: Things (& People) He's Slain"! |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2008 : 15:13:27
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quote:
Originally posted by arry
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Here is a frightful thought: "The Complete Book of Drizzt" wherein every stage of the character is shown.
and its sequel "The Complete Book of Drizzt: People He Knew"
followed by "The Complete Book of Drizzt: People He Knows"
Don't forget "The Complete Book of Drizzt: Things (& People) He's Slain"!
I thought "People He Knew" would cover that, but you're right it would be the fourth book.
And since they already announced at least one new splatbook dealing with some power source or other, why not "The Complete Book of Drizzt: How He Does The Things He Does Best -- Powersources"
Drizz is turning out to be a power-ranger after all... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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4e FR
