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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 01:10:40
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The rest of Rich's posts.
"There is; it's called the Arcane power source. Wizards use it.
There's also the Divine power source, which clerics and paladins use.
(A little less shouting would be OK.)"
Which is about the power source for magic in the new FR.
"Turmish, Impiltur, Cormyr, the Vast, Thesk, Aglarond, Chessenta, Akanul, Tymanther, the Western Heartlands... they're all still connected.
And things were in dire chaos, 94 years ago. There's been some amount of recovery since."
Which is about the nations Sembia is trading with in the new FR. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 09:34:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
4E is aimed at the playstation/NWN/WOW generation...
Now now, as pointed out before some "older" Realms fans also love video games. I play NWN (which, btw, is not an MMO), and most of the games I've played using the NWN engine haven't been "mindless". I have great Realms memories from Neverwinter Nights.
I do agree that D&D now seems to be trying to attract the MMO audience (and I'm not going to use WoW as an insult--that kind of gameplay and is legitimate and has a place just like D&D).
Just to clarify, I am not denigrating WoW/NWN etc (and never did in mt previous post). As someone who has played games for as long as I can remember I LOVE games, whatever their form.
I am stating my opinion that I feel that WoTC are targetting the young (12-20) NWN/WoW generation with the release of 4E (rapid advancement, lots of ruins to explore, lots of 'cool' races to play - Tieflings are core now I understand? etc etc etc). In general the marketeers at WoTC realise that to mke 4E pay for itself and secure a long term income stream they need to target young people who have/will have spending power, not 'oldies' who are likely to be more choosey for the reasons I have already stated.
Damian
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So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 12:33:36
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
4E is aimed at the playstation/NWN/WOW generation... But new 'kids'...
You do know that when you play D&D, you're playing make-believe with dice and little figures, right? Little figures you pretend are monsters?
The general notion that this is somehow intellectually superior to or more mature than getting excited over dragons made of polygons is utterly precious. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 13:41:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Here's Rich's post.
"Hmmm. In all honesty I can't explain why the Shadowdale sidebar says that. The parenthetical is a clear contradiction of the information on Magic of Faerun page 10. I'm inclined to regard the Shadowdale sidebar as being in error in this regard. My apologies for the confusion.
While I did work on part of Shadowdale, that wasn't my material."
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The latest bombshell -
After a little back-and-forth between myself and Rich Baker, it appears that the Shadow Weave is NOT dependent upon Mystra's Weave, and the info in the super-modules is Incorrect and no longer valid!
According to him, as per the Ask the Designers Thread at WotC, the older lore from Magic of Faerūn is the correct version.
This in response to him explaining why Shade was unaffected by the Spellplague...
Expect the Shadow weave in 4e in one incarnation or another.
So now we have the Shadow weave, and no Mystra's Weave...
Doesn't that just tickle us all pink? 
You know... this is really...stoooooopid 
Their baby survives and that what made the Realms special is gone...
mutilated...it all has become mutilated... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Arkhaedun
Senior Scribe
869 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 14:37:10
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Just as a friendly reminder, lets not wander too far afield into theory land. Commenting on the news that has been posted is fine, but going too far into theories behind game development and demographics and marketing only serve to pull this thread way off track.
If you have any questions about this, PM me or Alaundo rather than clutter up the thread any further.
Thanks all. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 15:51:22
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And I do want to clarify that I wasn't bashing WoW. I've certainly spent some hours playing it -- not enough to get to 70, but I do have a level 12 hunter and a level 42 warlock. It may not be as enjoyable to me as it obviously is to others, but I do enjoy it when I play (assuming I'm not getting killed every 30 seconds or doing one of those quests where you have to collect many items that drop only rarely).
I'm just pointing out that though WoW (and many other online games) would seem closely related to D&D, those similarities are really superficial -- thus, these games are not really a good place to look for inspiration on improving a game based on personal interation, random die rolls, and the use of the imagination. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 15 Jan 2008 15:52:21 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 16:39:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
The general notion that this is somehow intellectually superior to or more mature than getting excited over dragons made of polygons is utterly precious.
The association of fantasy and imagination with immaturity is the most biologically erroneous and socially destructive bunk (and itself a damaging modern social fantasy). Keith Johnstone's Impro and Jane Yolen's Touch Magic are very good on this. |
Edited by - Faraer on 15 Jan 2008 16:41:23 |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 16:42:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
[quote]Originally posted by crazedventurers
[
You do know that when you play D&D, you're playing make-believe with dice and little figures, right? Little figures you pretend are monsters?
The general notion that this is somehow intellectually superior to or more mature than getting excited over dragons made of polygons is utterly precious.
Crikey I am getting flamed alot today
did I say that D&D was more mature? or that it is intelectually superior?
hmmmmm, no I don't think I did . Care to reread my post before assuming I said certain things?
Thanks
Damian
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So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 20:02:38
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Rich's posts from today, so far.
"The exact details of the cosmology don't have to match -- for example, *which* godly domains are floating in the Astral. In FR you've got the Gates of the Moon, but in core D&D you might have Olympus instead. The thing we *do* want to match is what I'd call the basic structure of reality--an astral plane in which godly realms exist, an elemental plane, a fey plane, and a shadow plane.
The reason why is mostly for game mechanics: If we create a ritual in the core game called "Shadow Walk," we'd like that to mean the same thing in any D&D world. We'd like monster origins to mean pretty much the same thing everywhere too; if there's a spell that banishes monsters native to the Elemental Chaos back to their native realms, we'd want that to work in the Realms exactly the way it would in the core D&D game.
It also helps us to avoid creating high-work, low-payoff "flavor exceptions" for the Realms. If Realms didn't have, say, a Feywild, then we'd have to constantly backfill in Realms product to explain where it is exactly the ritual "Feywild Crossing" takes you, or where you can set that core adventure featuring a fomorian stronghold, or what-have-you. Now sometimes we want to create exactly those sorts of flavor exceptions, but we want to keep those at a reasonable number and do so for good reason.
Finally, here's the clincher for us: The new cosmology is really not all that different from the old one. The 3e Realms had godly dominions in an astral plane, it had a Shadow plane, it had a Faerie (rarely touched on, admittedly), and it had the Inner Planes (which now take a much more adventurable and interesting form in the Elemental Chaos).
The only real hiccup I see is reconcepting the Abyss as being part of the Elemental Chaos instead of an astral dominion, and we're doing that because the core D&D game is working to move devils and demons further apart conceptually. But that's a place where we view the payoff (hey, demons and devils work in FR pretty much like they do in the core game) to be worth the cost of some continuity damage. Some folks will no doubt disagree with our cost/benefit analysis there."
and
"Well, as I said in my answer: The implementation was fiddly and complex. We could have achieved the same result with almost no mechanics attached to the idea whatsoever ("some wizards study secret methods for accessing magic without using the Weave; Mystra has no inkling of what they're up to, and their magic would work in an area where the Weave doesn't").
The Shadow Weave appeared in 3e because we were already interested at that time in trying to spread the message that Mystra and her Chosen aren't the be-all and end-all of the setting, and that arcane things could happen that they wouldn't like or be able to stop.
I'm afraid that details on any sort of shadow power source and classes that might make use of it are really far off right now, so I can't say much on that score. However, I will say this much: If we'd had that "tech" available at the time we transitioned to 3e, I think it would have been a better implementation of the notion of a Shadow Weave than the one we came up with at the time."
and
"Nice Cthulhu smiley.
I'd like to think that wild mages would fare better at mucking around with the Spellplague than most. I think that'd be really interesting. I'm not sure that wild magic is really "done away with," it's just something we haven't gotten to yet."
and
"Yes. Unambiguous, but not very specific...
We've touched on the Torm story already, so you folks know about that one.
There are a couple of intermediates bouncing up too. Selune, for example."
Which was about if some of the lesser gods would rise in power.
and
"The story of Tyr-Helm-Tymora will be touched on in one of our novel series.
We don't have plans to do a novel specifically about the Spellplague or Mystra's death -- right now. But there's clearly room for a big story there. That'll be up to the Book team and our business team." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 20:56:57
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| I'll steal every copy of Spellplague/Mystra's death novel I can find and burn it infront of the bookstore. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 21:32:04
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
I'll steal every copy of Spellplague/Mystra's death novel I can find and burn it infront of the bookstore.
Burning books...not good, at all |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 21:33:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
I'll steal every copy of Spellplague/Mystra's death novel I can find and burn it infront of the bookstore.
Burning books...not good, at all
Indeed. You should at least get them recycled - such a hypothetical novel can only be a waste of trees, after all, so might at least make some use out of it. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 21:37:42
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There was a political statement there as well...subtle of course  |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 21:57:35
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Recycled books? No one recycles books. The entire industry lives off of tearing covers off books, sending the covers back for credit for the next order of books, and dumpstering the coverless book.
In any case, burning said book is more appropriate. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 23:37:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
My hope, though, is that we the players get to work against the happening of some of those events.
[/quote]
One would think that with with Cormyr, Shadowdale and Anauroch players would be able to stop stuff, but that seems very unlikely now
[/quote]
That's my biggest problem with those three adventures. At the end, after all the PCs have gone through, they have accomplished effectively nothing! |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 07:39:31
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Recycled books? No one recycles books. The entire industry lives off of tearing covers off books, sending the covers back for credit for the next order of books, and dumpstering the coverless book.
In any case, burning said book is more appropriate.
I am with Mace on that one. No book burnings, no matter what the contents. Recycling of said book, giving it away anything else, but some things are sacred. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 11:44:50
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Sorry fellow scribes! I am lost...
A RANT here, an anti-RANT there!
Mystra dead, and Helm and Tyr a gay couple? And the demi-human Pantheons narrowed down to what?
Sembia has fallen in shadows? Halruaa in ruins? The Orcs have a kingdom of their own?
All humans we know are dead, elves are no longer elves but eldarin? Halflings taller and gnomes are now hobbits again or what?
On top the discussion of Weave vs Shadow Magic vs Shadow Weave or whatever!
Will the sky fall upon everyone's head soon? I am completely lost in regard to what news the 4th Ed will bring. Could someone list up all the changes coming with the 4th Ed. that have been announced by WotC so far? I'd appreciate it. It might help to stop my head wobbling around so much.
Thanks in advance, Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Venger
Learned Scribe
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 14:12:54
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quote:
and Helm and Tyr a gay couple?
No they're not. What happened was that Tyr got into an argument with Siamorphe, and Siamorphe decided to leave the House of the Triad and moved to Brightwater. Tyr went to Sune to complain about the imbalance this caused in the planes. So to fix it, Sune decided to arrange a marriage between Tyr and Tymora. So Tyr and Tymora began dating, with Helm chaperoning them, and Tyr would have Helm deliver gifts, love letters, etc to Tymora. However, Tyr started suspecting that Helm was putting his cheap moves on Tymora. So Tyr challenged Helm to a duel and killed him. He then took Tymora back with him to the House of the Triad. Ilmater was pretty upset by the whole deal, so he left the House of the Triad, too, and also moved to Brightwater.
quote:
And the demi-human Pantheons narrowed down to what?
To a certain extent. Many gods, including a great deal of nonhuman gods, are being reduced to Demigod status. Demigods in 4E are equivalent of saints. Immortal heroes in the faith of a more powerful god (Either Lesser Gods or Greater Gods). On occasion they're worshipped, but the power derived from that worship goes towards the god they serve, not to them.
As for nonhuman gods who've died, that list includes Kiaransalee, Selvetarm, Vhaeraun, Haela Brightaxe, Gorm Gulthyn, Deep Duerra, and Laduguer. And of course, Mystra, Helm, and Savras are also dead. It also looks like that Selune and Sehanine Moonbow will turn out to be the same goddess. The same goes for Talos and Gruumsh.
quote:
Sembia has fallen in shadows? Halruaa in ruins? The Orcs have a kingdom of their own?
Yep.
quote:
All humans we know are dead
Unless they find a way to live for over 100 years, then it looks that way.
quote:
elves are no longer elves but eldarin?
Not quite right. In the Realms, a Sun Elf is still a Sun Elf. A Moon Elf is still a Moon Elf. Nobody refers to them as Eladrin. The Forgotten Realms Player's Guide will likely have racial entries which'll read something like this: "Moon Elves have all the Eladrin racial traits listed on page X of the Player's Handbook".
quote:
Halflings taller
Yeah, they've retconned Halflings to be taller.
quote:
gnomes are now hobbits again or what?
Gnomes aren't Hobbits. It's still up in the air what exactly is going on with Gnomes, though we got a hint of where they're going with them in a video they put up on WotC. |
"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power." |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 15:21:29
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I was not so far off after all. Thanks for some clarifications on your part Venger. Is there anything I have missed to mention that is noteworthy otherwise?
What about magic? Will we have the wizard as we know him or will it only be shadow magic that made it into the FR 4th Ed?
And demons/davils - I heard rumors about some changes there too (even though these will not effect the Realms overmuch....
More comments are appreciated. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 15:27:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
I have the feeling that them $$$-counters cannot see that far ahead, and all the demographics missed one thing: MMORPGs do not require a whole lot of reading to play.
That's a good point. I have coworkers that are utterly dedicated WoW players, playing several nights a week for at least 3 or 4 hours at a time, and playing more on days off. And the only reading they do is WoW related.
can we safely say there is no indication those people have a life outside of WoW? (no offence)
They're all nice guys, and all but one of them has kids... It's just that WoW is about all that they do, when they have the spare time. Even if I wanted to play as much as them, I couldn't -- because I also like to spend time with my fiancée, and even with the loss of most of my books, I'm still accumulating a nice backlog of things to read (I still haven't finished reading the Anauroch module, because I keep getting sidetracked by novels, manga, and other game stuff!).
so what you're saying is they had a life before WoW came along? |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 16:20:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Helm and Tyr a gay couple?
That I would have bought.
Oh, and if we want to get into gaming stereotypes and all those pig-headed "they have no lives" generalizations - I read "they want to get girls into D&D just as Blizzard has got them into WoW." Way to miss the point. Part of the attraction of WoW is that you don't have to interact directly with other players, and if you are female, you can even hide the fact that you are possessed of breasts and a vagina! For, you see, I don't think most girls would want to sit in the same room as acne-ridden teenagers who'll spend most of their time ogling their boobies and sexually harassing them. Let's not get into the subject of body odor, gaming tables stained with mysterious white substances, and a room littered with pizza boxes, potato chip flakes, and so on.
(Yes, yes, of course, not all D&D gamers are like that. But there are over eight million WoW subscribers. I'm sure a good portion of us have a life. Possibly better ones than the "oh lol u play wow u haev no lief do u poop like in south park lol" crowd. Would you like to hear what some MMORPG players think of pen-and-paper roleplayers?) |
Edited by - Karzak on 16 Jan 2008 16:35:08 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 16:31:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
I was not so far off after all. Thanks for some clarifications on your part Venger. Is there anything I have missed to mention that is noteworthy otherwise?
What about magic? Will we have the wizard as we know him or will it only be shadow magic that made it into the FR 4th Ed?
And demons/davils - I heard rumors about some changes there too (even though these will not effect the Realms overmuch....
More comments are appreciated.
Magic will still work for Wizards, it just will not use the Weave. We do not know how it will be explained, but effectively Wizards, Clerics, etc. will have magic almost the same as now. Ii appears likely that the new core magic rules will be in part or wholely be incorporated in the Realms (I however have not seen any official statement concerning this) allowing spell casters to use some magic even after spell slors are used (also fewer spell slots likely). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 17:05:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Karzak
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Helm and Tyr a gay couple?
That I would have bought.
Me too. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 17:22:40
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I'm sure we'd see to lesbian gods get together before guy on guy.
But then again, Wizards is shying away from the origin story of 99.9999999% of half-orc characters.. the logical backstory at that. So we'll probably never see out right gay gods. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 16 Jan 2008 17:23:20 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 20:11:33
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Rich's replies from today.
"Yeah, Fin, yugoloths are now demons in FR, just like they are in core. That's an example of the kind of rules question that FR needs to follow the core rules on.
My personal theory (still working on this one) is that "yugoloth" is a family or branch of demonkind, like tanar'ri, obyrith, or loumara. I think that each family might have different characteristics or purposes, so it's possible that yugoloths, despite their demonic nature, might retain that mercenary role they've always had. But that's only my personal musings at this point.
As far as I can tell, this change doesn't invalidate the concept of enmity between devils and demons, or the idea that they might have fought/still be fighting a gigantic cosmos-wide war."
and
"We're starting to wander into the "what happened to X?" field that I can't really go very far into yet. But yeah, Llurth Dreier did not make out well. The Great Rift was damaged and its circumstances have changed, but it survived.
I'm going to decline to answer on Evermeet for now, other than to say it's still there. I might be able to say more later." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 20:19:50
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| One more indication that core is being applied more to Realms, 3.X allowed Realms more freedom. Well bits and peices are nice to know about. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2008 : 21:28:49
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| The story with Tyr, Tymora and Helm makes me positively sick. |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2008 : 01:33:44
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The concept of "One rules to rule them all" was clearly stated at Gencon, and reaffirmed immediately afterwards. Since then, they have been 'back-peddling' a wee bit, because everyone thought that meant FR was going to be the new 'core' world.
Well, be that as it may, from all appearances it looks like anything 'core' will now be in FR, even if they are claiming that they are different. The Dragonborn 'shoehorning' is a very clear example of that.
Also, there is no actual 'core world', even though the two preview books discuss many concepts that they wish to impliment into the 'core' setting.
So how does that work? 
How do you impliment ideas into something that does not exist?
Yet, a lot of those preview ideas are appearing throughout the Realms. There seems to be a certain amount of 'denial' going on, even when its pretty clear the opposite is happening.
BTW- just to clarify my little exchange with Rich; the Shadow Weave was responnsible for saving Shade when Mystra died (else, it would have fallen as they all did in the past). No Shadow weave, no Shade - its that simple. So Rich had to ret-con the wording in the super-modules to save his beloved city, because it plays a major role in 4e FR. Now, what he DID NOT say was that we would have the Shadow Weave in 4e. Instead, we will have the 'new' Shadow Source for power, which, like many of the other new power sources, is derived from another plane - in this case the Shadowfell.
The Shadowfell is a combination of the old Plane of Shadows, and the Negative Energy Plane. That leads me to believe that the new Feywild will get the Positive Plane rolled into it - but that is pure conjecture on my part. I also suspect that Ravenloft - or some dark, misty incarnation of it - will also be rolled into the Shadowfell. The Shadar-Kai natives sound suspiciously like the Shadow Elves from The Great Rift supplement. Once again, conjecture...
None of this is new BTW, I've seen something VERY much like it in another TSR setting...
So, it all comes down to this - there is NO Shadow Weave in 4e AFAIK, but there is a Shadow Source that mages can tap into. By the same token, the new 'Arcane' power source will take the place of the Weave. Why bother making this change, when it all sounds so similar? To get every setting 'on the same page' for 4th edition.
This means that the Shadow Weave survived Mystra's fall, but it collapsed as well sometime after. this still uphold's what Ed said, because nowhere was it specified how long after the collapse of the weave that the Shadow Weave would also crumble. It was only stated that it would, and obviusly it has, in 4e. I have no idea if it was a few days later, or fifty years, but either way, fall it did.
On a side note, I find it interesting that a source for this new arcane energy hasn't been mentioned. I'm thinking the Feywild, but I had that pegged as the Fey source, which they HAVE mentioned. the Fey Power Source is probably something Elves and Druids use, and is associated with 'life'.
I wonder if the Arcane source will available through the Elemental Tempest? I suppose it all depends on how they re-align all the spells, now that 'schools' are gone.
just my musings on the subject, and a clarification --- Mark T.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2008 : 17:44:13
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Rich's posts from today, so far.
"Welcome, Elaurin! Don't remember seeing you here before.
Will we still have evil organizations other than the Netherese? Absolutely. Some have changed a lot in 100 years, but you'll still have Red Wizards, Zhents, the Cult of the Dragon, and quite a few others to play with.
Likewise, you'll have some good organizations too. I'm sort of hoping we can successfully "rehabilitate" the Harpers this time around. I think Cloak & Dagger and several novels at the end of 2e really threw them off-course, and I'd like to hope that 100 years is enough time for the organization to get its feet under it again and be the sort of thing many players aspire for their characters to join.
And yeah, genasi are still around. We've got some good stuff planned for 'em."
and
"In core D&D, don't expect much about the Blood War.
In FR, we wouldn't retcon it away, but if it's strongly deemphasized in 4e core, it won't play much of a role in 4e Realms. So think of the Blood War as something that was going on intensely in the Realms' cosmos before the Spellplague, but now has diminished greatly.
Let me ask a question, though: If we said that the Blood War had never happened in FR (and I'm not saying we would), what canon would be violated? There are a couple of plane descriptions in the FRCS and FR Player's Guide that would be inaccurate, but is there something major besides those? (What I'm really asking is, How important was the Blood War to the Realms, really?)" |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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4e FR
