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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 00:51:06
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| I agree with you that not all change is good. Change can be good, but it isn't good in and of itself. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 14:23:05
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"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush"
Good advice. Sage wisdom for any who listen.
But apparently the two birds Wotc is looking at are very sexy indeed!!
I hope it turns out that well, twice as good as before.
But..I have tried the new, as in reading the official sources and what changes HAPPENED...(they are in print in GHOTR so alot of us need to quit looking at them as proposed changes or things that will happen in the future. They are done, happened, chronicled.)
I do not like the changes. To many I guess that means I am supposed to leave the Realms. I am offended by that. It is not as simple as stay and love it or go and hate it. I choose the third option. One I beleive I share with many of you. I choose to stay and fight for what I love. But I choose to take my time, take full measure of all changes and act judiciously with care and thought for all. No firery rhetoric to encite the masses (Save that for your letters to Wotc) Just good solid feedback why it is not in the Realms best interest.
We have carved out a great piece of the Realms right here in the halls of Candlekeep. Slowly. With care and love. So no matter how it goes I choose to stay. Here. At my home in the Realms, Candlekeep. I will fight the good fight and protect our niche. But I will also respect all my fellow scribes no matter which side they choose. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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onetrueping
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2007 : 21:40:45
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It figures that my first post here would be in response to such a huge event. Anyway, here's my thought.
Ed, father of the Realms that he is, has stated that, were it up to him, he'd be detailing the other continents, region by region, before introducing the Spellplague. On hearing this, I am forced to wonder. Why don't we, with Ed's help and blessing, perhaps work on expanding the Realms as he first saw it and keep the old campaign viable? Wouldn't it be preferable to just complaining fruitlessly against the changes that WotC has committed to?
So how about it? We've only got one continent down, and there's a whole WORLD left to explore! |
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Brix
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2007 : 20:23:17
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Well the answer is easy.
Don't use the fluff changes. There is tons of realmslore, that can be used for many, many years. Frankly, WotC has not published many FR adventures in the past, mostly accessories, and even that was cut & paste with enough new stuff that you feel the urge to buy it. That won't change in 4E.
With regards to crunch, just simply help to keep 3E alive ;) |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 15:03:44
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
We have carved out a great piece of the Realms right here in the halls of Candlekeep. Slowly. With care and love. So no matter how it goes I choose to stay. Here. At my home in the Realms, Candlekeep. I will fight the good fight and protect our niche. But I will also respect all my fellow scribes no matter which side they choose.
(Above emphasis mine)
I totally agree with you Red Walker. The most important thing IMHO is that we don't split the Realms community here. We all love the Realms; neither the 'old' nor the 'new' Realms are better than each other, they are merely different. |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 15:42:35
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quote:
Originally posted by arry
neither the 'old' nor the 'new' Realms are better than each other, they are merely different.
We don't know that yet
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 18:05:43
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With respect Zorro, they are different. In the 'old' Realms Mystra exists and controls the weave. In the 'new' Realms she does not. The various other gods that are killed in the 'new' Realms have not been killed in the 'old' Realms. The events that 'fans of the Seven Sisters won't like' in the 'new' Realms haven't happened in the 'old' Realms.
From what we have already seen in GHotR and 'The Orc King' the 'new' Realms are different from the 'old'. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 18:24:42
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quote:
Originally posted by arry
With respect Zorro, they are different. In the 'old' Realms Mystra exists and controls the weave. In the 'new' Realms she does not. The various other gods that are killed in the 'new' Realms have not been killed in the 'old' Realms. The events that 'fans of the Seven Sisters won't like' in the 'new' Realms haven't happened in the 'old' Realms.
From what we have already seen in GHotR and 'The Orc King' the 'new' Realms are different from the 'old'.
I think he was saying (tongue-in-cheek) that we don't know that the two settings will be equal to each other. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2007 : 01:31:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I think he was saying (tongue-in-cheek) that we don't know that the two settings will be equal to each other.
Exactly
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2007 : 12:02:13
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Ah, sorry. My bad.  |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2007 : 17:52:28
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Thanks for the sticky, decided to wait for a while before throwin in my 2 coppers. It's just interesting listening to both sides of the argument and Ed's own thoughts.
Anyhow, I remember something during the change from 1st ed to 2nd, something that made all this pale in significance, and that was rangers could fight with a longsword in each hand. That one blew me away, but eventually I accepted it.
When this comes out, I'll read the PHB. If I like it, I'll buy it, if not I won't. Same with the changes to the Realms, if I like them, I'll make them if not, I won't. It is after all my Realms. No matter what happens two things for sure will; 1. This too will come to pass, and 2. I will continue to play D&D (with the occasional break)in some form or fashion. Unless they get rid of dice, that in my opinion would be unforgivable, cause I love my dice  . |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2007 : 20:17:43
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| What I don't understand above all else is this babbling about "all-powerful npcs" ruining the campaign. If that happens it's not the fault of the npcs, it's the DM that sucks! |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2007 : 20:48:22
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
What I don't understand above all else is this babbling about "all-powerful npcs" ruining the campaign. If that happens it's not the fault of the npcs, it's the DM that sucks!
My thoughts exactly. Fictional characters aren't at fault for being poorly used! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2007 : 00:07:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
What I don't understand above all else is this babbling about "all-powerful npcs" ruining the campaign. If that happens it's not the fault of the npcs, it's the DM that sucks!
My thoughts exactly. Fictional characters aren't at fault for being poorly used!
Exactly, nor are they to blame for being overused, underused, too powerful, too hands off, too hands on, et al. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Scathlock
Acolyte
Germany
1 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2007 : 22:41:50
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Well, they (WOtC) claim that the problem is that people perceive the npcs as all these things. Seems like bad dms and eberronites are the new realms audience they aim for. I really hope there's something in the things ed will write that i can use. THIS is the only thing I dare to be optimistic about. But then, since the weird tree cosmology my realms aren't canon anyway. I should have the knack by now to salvage a setting for what I can use - on the other side, it was never a problem to reassign different names and locations to god-abodes and assign them to the great wheel: but to actually rewrite storys that have mortal eladrin in them who aren't eladrin but not elves either so that they make any sense, to retcon the divine sitcom, resurrect Mystra, rescue the seven etc... |
Talents are best nurtured in solitude; character is best formed in the stormy billows of the world. - Goethe |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2007 : 19:49:52
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| I don't game.Well I haven't gamed in years,but I do read all of the novels.I am wondering how these changes will effect the Realms in that scope.Will it effect how they are written??Are the changes going to be so glaring that I will not want to read them anymore.Will they be better,or just as fantastic??I guess I will have to wait to reserve judgement.Also what of the novels that are coming out in the near future?Such as 2009.Will they be written using 4e rules in mind?? |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2007 : 19:26:03
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quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
I don't game.Well I haven't gamed in years,but I do read all of the novels.I am wondering how these changes will effect the Realms in that scope.Will it effect how they are written??
I would assume so, although that question is rather non-specific.
quote:
Are the changes going to be so glaring that I will not want to read them anymore.
That'd be for you to decide.
quote:
Will they be better,or just as fantastic??
See above.
quote:
Will they be written using 4e rules in mind??
Undoubtedly. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2007 : 23:11:44
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
All we ask is that you don't steamroll us on your way to get to these ellusive "new gamers".
The way it looks, every day it seems more likely that they will be loosing more "old" FR gamers (DM most likely, which is more devastating) than getting people interested. And this - to an equal extend - is because of the last two - still very vague - pages of TGHotR as well as the news about racial and deific changes that happen in 4E. I for one doubt that the means will make up the ends here. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2007 : 23:40:42
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It just appears interesting right now, how good or bad final product will be up to the individual user.
It is a good point about telling DMs to finish their campaigns, some might not want to start a 4th campaign. New DMs tend to make a mess of the rules far more often then old/experience DMs do. All will make errors.
If 4th ends up with many new DMs 4th will not look good. Stll in many ways wait and see final product. Not hearing much to welcome as an improvement yet though. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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JEThetford
Acolyte
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2007 : 03:32:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
All we ask is that you don't steamroll us on your way to get to these ellusive "new gamers".
The way it looks, every day it seems more likely that they will be loosing more "old" FR gamers (DM most likely, which is more devastating) than getting people interested. And this - to an equal extend - is because of the last two - still very vague - pages of TGHotR as well as the news about racial and deific changes that happen in 4E. I for one doubt that the means will make up the ends here.
I can only speak for myself. I have been gaming since the mid-late 1970's and have been in the FR since about 1991 (not sure of the date, I think it was about the time Exile from Salvatore came out but don't hold me to that). I plan on continuing in the Realms as long as they print the books. Gaming and Fiction. I am a fan of the game and as far as I am concerned, things change and I can either change with them--become stagnate--or choose not to change.
I am still a wait and see kinda guy. I take what Ed says as law about the game. HOWEVER, I will still make my own decision when it comes to the new edition.
Count this old gamer as hanging around.
Jeff |
The only good Drow, is a dead Drow.
Aaomas Balkrim, Drow Hunter
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Stonwulfe
Seeker
Canada
81 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2008 : 18:14:58
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*Has only just read Ed's post through THO*
Storm... in thigh-high... naught else....
Ed, you know how to reach a man's heart. *Gleeful smile* |
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tenacious1
Acolyte
21 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 04:42:44
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*new guy starts beating the dead horse*
1. Companies are ALWAYS going to try to attract new customers. All companies have bosses and that is either the private owner or the share holders, both of which want more money (as do most of us here) and to do so, they need to try and grow their sales. All decisions are made with that in mind. When they are in the meeting trying to figure out how, sometimes the koolaide gets passed around on an idea that sounds good. It happens... it's just the way it is. They aren't evil, they are TRYING to make things better, though their decisions are probably misguided :P
2. It's been mentioned a few times here, if you don't like a rule, an invent, or something else, chuckle about the jokers who made the decision and agree with your group to omit it. D&D has always, IMO, been a framework, and while I like to think of myself as purest, there have always been instances where "tweeks" were made to suit the group.
Just my thoughts - don't flame me! I'm new :D |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 12:54:42
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I read the book Races and Classes and I'm very disappointed!! I will wait to see the core books to make my final decision ..But the signs are not good..I think the time that ED GREENWOOD must separate Forgotten Realms with Wizards of the coast is approaching ( if he is able to do such a thing after all).. I do not want my favorite campaign world become the world of warcraft...or else i propose BACK TO 2ND EDITION....
Perhaps ED must re-think of continue publishing Forgotten Realms under the Margaret Weiss Productions, ltd (like Castlemourn) instead of Wizards of the coast (if he is able to do it)...
HE and WE must NOT let wizards of the coast ruin our beloved world!!!
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BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 22:07:54
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| I love the core 4E concepts, but not necessarily in the Forgotten Realms setting. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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tenacious1
Acolyte
21 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2008 : 17:30:36
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I don't see it hear and perhaps this isn't the place for rumors, but I heard Gnomes are getting banished to the DMG... which, if true, I kinda saw coming from the primer... :(
Could we start a Yes/No poll ask if you like the upcoming concepts? I'd love to see the results of that... |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2008 : 17:48:24
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quote:
Originally posted by tenacious1
I don't see it hear and perhaps this isn't the place for rumors, but I heard Gnomes are getting banished to the DMG... which, if true, I kinda saw coming from the primer... :(
Could we start a Yes/No poll ask if you like the upcoming concepts? I'd love to see the results of that...
This really belongs on the D&D 4e Discussion Thread, but yes, Gnomes are now a monster in the 4e Monster Manual.
--Hawkins |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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He left it dead, and with its head
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2008 : 17:51:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
If 4th ends up with many new DMs 4th will not look good. Stll in many ways wait and see final product.
As a long time gamer I welcome new DM's and players into the fold, as it keeps the hobby alive.
New & old DM's all make errors, the errors are not important, it is the participation with fellow human beings face to face that IS important IMHO.
I doubt very much I will buy much of 4E Realms stuff (I think I have four 3.x FR specific products) as I don't see myself running 4E, but if 4E means new players and new DM's then that can only be a positive thing for the future of the hobby. Alas, like others here, I don't think that 4E will do this, 'kids' don't seem to want to sit around and play games anymore unless it is on a computer (generalising here! based from my experiences working in education and as someone nearing 40 who has friends who have kids of the teen age range).
I think that WoTC need to get this change to 4E really correct to get the kids interested and to properly market it to them as well. There are too many other forms of 'interactive' entertainment out there for WoTC to see this as a 'given'. I fear this is the last throw of the dice for WoTC to generate substantial sales to the emerging teen market, I have no doubt that many of the 3E generation will switch, but WoTC need new 'blood' for long term viability, not just keeping their current customers buying products, as they tend to get more choosey in time and need less 'splat books' etc as they have a previous edition sitting on their shelf which does the job instead.
Just my thoughts
Damian
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So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2008 : 21:55:03
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Wow... it's been 4 years since I've visited this forum and when I return I find everything going crazy. Lol.
4E? Oh man, I've only been keeping track with the novels and haven't heard too much about 4E. Could anyone explain to me what's happening with the new edition and why the huge jump 100 years into the future? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2008 : 22:26:16
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Wow... it's been 4 years since I've visited this forum and when I return I find everything going crazy. Lol.
4E? Oh man, I've only been keeping track with the novels and haven't heard too much about 4E. Could anyone explain to me what's happening with the new edition and why the huge jump 100 years into the future?
So much has been written about it by now that I think it would be far more fruitful for you to read the 4E threads in the WotC News and Releases forum. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 17 Feb 2008 22:34:56 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2008 : 23:24:32
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Oh, I did read them. I read Richard Baker's article for Countdown to the Realms. I wanted to know if there was other additional information.
I guess it was more of a shock how this huge change is going to change the Realms. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wise words from Ed, regarding 4e FR
Topic Locked
