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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 18:41:56
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I just wanted to let everyone here know that I created a thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=930525) in the Forgotten Realms General forums over in the D&D forums for us fans to tell the designers what has caused us to love the Realms. I have also asked the designers to read the thread and hopefully they will garner what and take into consideration what we love and try their best not to change it too much. I too am hoping to be pleasantly surprised next August.
Thanks,
Hawkins |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
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* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
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* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 19:13:46
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They have to cause these changes to the Realms because of some strange mechanics with 4E rules that none of us know entirely about yet.
But if you have to change entire settings for new mechanics in 4E, then there's just something really wrong with how much you're changing in D&D in 4E.
When 3E came, how much of the Realms changed really? The only changes were "additions", such as some new classes, races, prestige classes now officialized in the Realms, but everything else remained the same. Nothing was really "subtracted" or "altered beyond recognition".
You mean to tell me that they couldn't keep the Realms mostly intact even with the 4E rules? What are they doing to D&D itself to cause all this?
Personally, I believe no one was ready for 4E, and no one will ever be ready for a FR change in 4E. I know Ed states "wait and see", but I really don't believe that's a stance we should take. The "wait and see" approach simply gives WotC that much more power over their customer base and gives them all the time in the world to "convince" you with their silver-tongues (or typed words) that 4E will be the best game rules ever in D&D and the Realms will be the same Realms you've come to enjoy and love. We let them "brainwash" us into this mess, it's all just tactical business ploys that the consumer base won't ever notice unless they truly stop, think, and research.
Each tidbit about 4E makes me gag at what is happening. Just to attract the "World of Warcraft" customer base, they're changing every aspect of D&D that has been around traditionally because that is what makes it "D&D". Reading about the Realms future is not making it any better. You can change the rules without having to change the flavor, it can be done...3rd Edition did it, why can't 4th Edition?
So wait and see...if you truly hate all the changes, we can make 3.5E come alive again thanks to the OGL. If you truly do like the new changes in both D&D and the Realms, then you were lost in WotC's enchantment spell that took effect over an entire year of them "promising" and "excitement" over the new edition. And it hurts to see one go that route. But enjoy your new game anyway that merely has the labels of "D&D" and "Forgotten Realms", but none of its memories:
In which I conclude my point with "Until they release 5E close on the heels of 4E, that is." It will happen, and we allow it to happen, unfortunately, with their "wait and see" approach. We allow WotC to do this to us. In retrospect, I think we destroyed D&D and the Realms because we let them do it. |
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Arkhaedun
Senior Scribe
869 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2007 : 06:28:10
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Let's make sure that we are being careful not to take shots at people because they might enjoy a change the someone else may not. Its one thing to disagree with a change and state your reasons, its another to disparage someone for liking something that you yourself do not.
Just a friendly reminder. |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2007 : 23:03:20
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Razz raised quite a valid point. Eberron was created for 3,5E, while lots of the FR was 3E or 3RE. Now, Eberron as a setting apparently goes unchanged (racial stuff excluded), when it is more or less a duplicate of the Realms with a few specialities. Do those lacking specialities make the FR-Ragnageddon* necessary though? As has been said before, when rules change a particular setting to suit the general rules, there is surely something wrong with the rules, not a particular setting. Especially if other settings go virtually unscathed. (Well, don't tell that to the Greyhawk folks, of course ...)
*Just coined and thus instantly trademarked. Only to be used after a suitable offering! |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 02:33:59
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You know, I wonder what's different about me from everyone else. Because, my group and I seem to be the only people here who welcome the changes. All of the changes.
I think part of my problem was the fact that my group was a little burnt out on 3E Realms. Our group has played together, intermittingly, on and off since the Time of Troubles. It wasn't until the Dawn of the Internet when what got me interested in the Realms in the Godsfall was revealed to be the widely unpopular event that it was. To me, and my twelve year old self, it had been the coolest thing ever.
For me; this is an excellent opportunity to break out the character of Fuji the Samurai, Rose the Charlatan Bard, Imzel and Musim of Rashemi, and Zasheria the Sexy Monk of Ilmater. The last time we'd left them, they'd helped kill Samaster and left much of The Cult of Dragons in ruins. It had seemed, after that, there wasn't much urgency to their mission and the campaign momentum had been lost.
Now, Mystra is dead and our old enemy Cyric has killed her. The planes are utterly devastated and the Chosen are down. That, my friends, is DRAMA! Plus, we can lower everyone's levels down with the Spell Plague as justification and increase the danger of the setting again back to interesting heights.
So, bravo, WOTC. You've saved my campaign. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 14:08:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
So, bravo, WOTC. You've saved my campaign.
But you'd have to do the time-warp, so to speak, wouldn't you? In order to use the new Realms, you'd have to find a way to bridge the hundred year gap which to me seems to be set in stone already. That is, after all, what makes the continuation of ongoing campaigns rather difficult.
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 14:36:06
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Actually, it didn't prove to be that big of a problem. Some of the player characters were interested in playing new characters as well while there are elves and dwarves in my party still alive after the century skip. One player I also awarded his long-sought after Chosen-ship (right before his god perished---his immediate campaign goal being to seek out and restore Hoar to life now).
Plus, I'm getting to examine the long term effects of my PCs on the Heartlands. It boils down to "Your party managed to preserve peace here for over a century. Be proud, very proud."
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 14:52:53
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In this case, more power to you  Personally, I don't mind the heavy changes and the time-jump as I will continue playing my campaign whatever WotC might or might not do. (And it's a looong time until 1384 / 1385 anyway.) It's just that the new FR would have to be the best thing since sliced bread to convince me to leave "my" Realms behind (in which I play simply for the reason that it's a damn good playground that'll be pretty hard to replace.) Oh well... I'm getting used to the thought of two Forgotten Realms - the official and the original versions -, and maybe, just maybe WotC will publish a "classic" FRCS further down the road.
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 14:53:42
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| Has anyone said by now that the Realms will indeed be brought forward 100 years? I still under the impression that 4E will start with 1385 and the Spellplague? |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 15:00:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Has anyone said by now that the Realms will indeed be brought forward 100 years? I still under the impression that 4E will start with 1385 and the Spellplague?
Not that I know of. The 100 year jump comes from the Orc King prologue, but WotC has refused to say just how far ahead the jump is. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 15:26:48
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Indeed, but I've played catch-up over the past three days, read a lot of replies from authors and designers, and I'm positively sure the advanced timeline will be the one they use. Mind, they didn't say, "The CS will pick up in 1485," but they replied to concerns and questions in a way from which you could deduce it. I figure otherwise they'd have said, "We understand your concerns, but the jump occurs only in the novel, so don't worry."
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe - for whatever reason - they purposely didn't allay the fans' fears, but I think the jump will be in game.
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 15:32:09
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Besides, it won't be as different as people think it is, I think.
A lot will have changed but I doubt it will be as drastic as Dark Sun's changes.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 15:52:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Zorro
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
So, bravo, WOTC. You've saved my campaign.
But you'd have to do the time-warp, so to speak, wouldn't you? In order to use the new Realms, you'd have to find a way to bridge the hundred year gap which to me seems to be set in stone already. That is, after all, what makes the continuation of ongoing campaigns rather difficult.
Zorro
In the old grey box there was a "zoo" of sorts that had creatures in temporal stasis.
Gave me the idea of placing a party in a similar state...only to have them emerge in the future...i.e. movies like Time Machine or some such. It would allow folks to keep their characters...but they would have a lot to deal with; emotionally and otherwise. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 16:06:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Besides, it won't be as different as people think it is, I think.
A lot will have changed but I doubt it will be as drastic as Dark Sun's changes.
Tell that to my three dozen or so drow PC and NPC ... and yes, I am someone who keeps to the original setting and its events. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 16:38:05
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To actually keep this on topic, Ed also posted made a reply to the mailing list today.
"Words of Wisdom from Ed.
Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated. :}
(As someone said, more than once before.)
I'm not only not "dead to the Realms," I'm busier than ever. If I happened to own Wizards of the Coast, I wouldn't have gone ahead with the Spellplague until I'd finished covering the entire surface of the planet in detailed geographical sourcebooks (and updated the "favourite" spots regularly, too), but then: I may well never have finished THAT particular task, AND I'm not the most astute of businessfolk; my pet projects might sink a game company, not propel it ever onwards.
The good folks at Wizards ARE a game company, and most of them are veterans for good reasons. I trust them. So, please, everyone: wait until you see the new Realms before you Beat The Drums Dire. Please.
As of right now, I'm so busy writing and brainstorming Realms stuff that I don't even have time to adequately answer all the rumors and talk to all the upset gamers (and, folks: I am NOT belittling your feelings here; it's perfectly natural to get upset when you cherish something and suddenly perceive it to be under threat - - I'm merely saying it helps no one to speculate about those perceived threats). Please wait and see. I am too old, fat, and bearded to be Cool (or even Kewl). I can only be the same detail-obsessed worldbuilder I've always been. I will be there for all of you. Promise.
Ed" |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 13 Oct 2007 16:38:39 |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2007 : 15:31:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Who knows what voices are the ones motivating WotC to delete so many gods at once (it really *could* be their own idea--streamlining). But if they really are paying heed to the loudest NON-fans of the setting out there...well, that obviously seems silly and illogical to me!
May I disagree with you My Lady. Everything is perfectly logical in a business sense. WotC wants to generate new fans for the FR setting. They find out what these NON-fans don't like about the FR setting and change it. Thus they hope to bring in new fans to the setting. WotC are gambling, and Ed described it as a BIG roll of the dice, that they will lose fewer fans of the 'old' FR than they bring in new fans for the 'new' FR. They are also gambling that the new fans don't go 'THIS is the FR? Meh, what's so special about it?' and not buy 'new' FR products. IF that happens (and I hope it doesn't), then WotC may have damaged the FR brand AND irritated a sizeable (and I don't know HOW sizeable), chunk of the fan-base. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2007 : 15:39:25
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| Well, one could say that that amount of gambling is not always a sound business move, but I do agree that most likely it will be beneficial for WotC. There has been plenty of attempts at changing with the times that has gone terribly wrong though. |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2007 : 15:42:18
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| I agree with you Jorkens, but WotC have made the gamble and have to deal with the outcome, good or bad. |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2007 : 15:50:55
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| There is the attitude of Hasbro to consider as well. I have no idea if they say to WotC, 'Make X amount of profit this quarter in total' or 'Each line must make X amount of profit this quarter' or something else entirely. I also don't know about the profitablity of particular lines. Big corporations like Hasbro stay big by considering the bottom line. |
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IronHammer
Acolyte
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2007 : 02:25:54
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| Well I guess Ill throw in my coppers worth. WOTC is looking at the bottomline in one form or the other. Im sure they care about the fan base's views but only so far as to not prohibit the profit margin. Im sorry to say but when it comes to any buisness its them befor us any day. Id say Mr. Greenwood is just as upset about it as we are. Im trying to keep an open mind about it but Im somewhat skeptical. Im just hoping for the best. If not like someone eluded to earlier my 1st,2nd and 3rd edition books aint eatin' a thing...They have been in my shelf for years and will be for many more. |
I remember playing Dwarves and Elves as a character class... |
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Chataro
Learned Scribe
Singapore
114 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2007 : 17:44:02
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| I do wonder if mr greenwood will get inh trouble for almost hinting that we could ignore the 4e |
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Rafe Hasbrouck
Acolyte
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 13:32:15
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Morning,
I just wanted to post some of my thoughts about the 4e FR. I have played in the realms throughout the years. Sometimes there has been large gaps between my gaming, but life gets busy. I read a few of the FR novels, not nearly as many as I would like but I do love the realms history, lore, and world.
When my friend pointed out the changes mentioned in the Grand History, my jaw dropped. I admit I was totally shocked to hear what would happen in the future. I admit I have been upset over changes to things I have loved in my life, but I will say I am excited about the changes here. I love adventuring and DMing in the FR. These changes won't change that for me. I understand buying new books and stuff can be a pain, but thats what we pay for right? New content.
I think there are endless possibilities for stories of survival, heroism, luck and dark deeds to come from these changes. I look forward to DMing and playing through them. I'm very interested to see how the good guys fare and the bad guys grab what they can in the confusion.
Rafe |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2007 : 19:50:02
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quote:
Originally posted by arry
May I disagree with you My Lady.
Of course.
quote:
Everything is perfectly logical in a business sense. WotC wants to generate new fans for the FR setting. They find out what these NON-fans don't like about the FR setting and change it. Thus they hope to bring in new fans to the setting. WotC are gambling, and Ed described it as a BIG roll of the dice, that they will lose fewer fans of the 'old' FR than they bring in new fans for the 'new' FR. They are also gambling that the new fans don't go 'THIS is the FR? Meh, what's so special about it?' and not buy 'new' FR products. IF that happens (and I hope it doesn't), then WotC may have damaged the FR brand AND irritated a sizeable (and I don't know HOW sizeable), chunk of the fan-base.
Oh, of course--WotC surely hopes to gain more new players than they lose. Time will tell if they succeed. I just wish they would try to gain new players in a way that DOESN'T alienate so many current Realms fans. Or, well, me. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Swiftblade
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 04:55:05
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I just want to say, thank you Ed, you are great for sticking with it even when your dreams are being moved in directions you don't agree with.
As for me, I am very nervous about all of this major change, I saw it once already, and I fell out of love with that world and don't want to see it happen again. I am referring to DragonLance and how so much changed with the War of Souls trilogy, it just sounds alot like the same deal, major NPC's killed of, countries laid to waste and all that unfun stuff. I am apprehensive, but will hold my verdict until it finishes out and we see the final product. |
"I told you not to touch it, now look what you have done!"
"Ancient ruins, sounds like Home."
"Sweet water and light laughter until we meet again." |
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the truthseeker
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2007 : 13:39:57
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Hello all:
(I hope you will overlook any uncaught spelling or grammar mistakes for this long and my maiden posting on this board done early morning and enjoy the message it conveys.)
Rarely do postings I read by clicking from a linked forum (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.frp.dnd)
cause me to reply, but after reading Ed's reply and all your responses, I felt strongly enough to join to say my piece in this experience.
A well said to the previous replies to all, even if accused by others as not well thought out. All your opinions count. EVERYBODY'S.
Including our creator of this realm, of course. I'll mention my magmanimous gratitude to Ed at the conclusion of this message.
Yes, I have been around before the Realms was a public gaming thing. I remember when that D&D box was red and Elf and Dwarf were both their own class. I remember the day D&D "became" AD&D "also." I remember the "insanity" of the changes from:
- When it changed to "1st Edition"
- The "update" to 2nd
- The introdution of RPGA's "living" series pushing the FR to a more national prominance and the "end of Greyhawk"
- The "revolution" of 3rd ed
- The "agreement mistake" causing 3.5 from 3.0 (and 3.5 not caused any user feedback nosiree Bob)
- The "end" of D&D since it was being "sold like Magic in its method of release marketing"
And now it's "the end of FR as we know it" (the end of FR as we know it, the end of FR as we know it, and I feel fine.....) with the 4th ed changes in game system story revamping on how the D&D game world is revealed and characters develop and grow
(since 2-3.x was more a change in game mechanics than story and 4th ed appears more a change in conceptual in the points of light, but I'm uncertain what can be discussed in detail with the primary developers and our friend the NDA.)
Well, since this month (of October 2007,) I've been playing D&D for 30 years.
(Holy crap, I've played D&D for 30 years!)
So I've seen more than a few things come and go....or stay a while.
Including a couple of worlds like Greyhawk and "The Realms"
You know what?
I liked the FR before the "Time of Troubles." I liked the OG (Original Game) better.
Therefore, I've decided to demand all the changes since then be "removed."
I'm STILL not over the "original" Mystra (Mystryl) death.
So that's it:
Either "fix" the Forgoten Realms to its original state or we'll never buy anything FR again!
[A person whispering in my ear]
The NEW Mystra made Elmister what he was?
[Sighs]
OK, you can keep her, but EVERYTHING else must change or ELSE!
As you can see from my ultimatum (tongue firmy in cheek) above, change is not only inevitable, it's also good sometimes. We can't say what it will bring about, but it's as necessary as entropy is to creating new things.
We would not have one of the most definative events in FR history was it not for the transition from 1st to 2nd ed in this campaign. Personally speaking (about D&D as a whole not only FR,) I like the 3rd ed transition from 2nd better than the 2nd from 1st.
(Even the multiple FR 3.X fixes were better IMHO than having to swallow the concept of THAC0 than the more bigger is better "to hit" of prior use. And it seems-considering the 3.x series and the birth of the d20 system-that "returning" to a higher is better to hit won out in the end.)
That doesn't mean I didn't appreciate the new things 2nd ed brought to FR (Okay, I wasn't a fan at the Torm-Mazica conflict or that Waukeen was MIA most of the edition's canon life, but I loved everything else, really.)
However, if I pre-judged a setting by the system and pre-mentioned adadptations caused to support it instead of what the writers actually developed in its lifespan of content, I would have missed a lot.
And for those who have dammed FR 4th ed from heresay without even looking at what is, you may too.
I make no illusions that D&D is a business--more now after the WOTC/Hasbro mergers than when it was first owned by TSR (and thanks for those gold-box computer games of 2nd Ed D&D like "Curse of the Azure Bonds" BTW.)
I actually grew up as a family member of a person long involved in the movie business. Like "Star Wars" "Superman" "Total Recall," etc. level of involvement. (Yeah I met "big names" and no you can't know who.) Nowhere more there (IMHO) is it clear what happens to the intellectual property of a story once a company buys the rights to the script from the writer. While the writer is (usually) still consulted on it, the company owns it and changes it with their studio team to make as much profit possible first and formost above any other concern-not what most people think outside their wallets.
While not as cutthroat (most industries like the movie industry don't take gross profits so much as to almost never see any net [post gross] profit,) the gaming companies are out to make money.
Eletronic game platforms (including the PC) then Magic: The Gathering showed that gaming still had a way to make a fortune for many (even surpassing the Adult Industriy's revenue which is a ton in itself.)
So, when interest-offered by an industry run on imagination as a key to its enjoyment-is feared stale, and new consumers are wanted: Industry leaders look to what is interesting to a large group of others now and what sells (and yes, sometimes in gaming, if sales can be boosted to beyond a loyalist "fringe revenue,") in the long run.
So yes, a lot of newer and/or younger gamers are internet based and a lot like MMORPG when they play multiplayer (on both PC and platform bases.) And while wanting to keep what works on the classic side of gaming, companies want to try to gainn new players as well.
This has been true for all gaming series and especially true since the D&D 3rd ed update series was taken over by a successful marketing companmy (the WOTC/Hasbro mergers.)
So D&D changing to incorporate what gamers are using is no different than cola companies trying to get the "Pepsi Generation" after the older styles are waning.
But a caveat: Not all change is good just because others have succeed.
Going back to our movie industry, the reason so many movies are so damn similar is because most (modern movie) people are not that innovative when it comes to movies and "new ideas." The cost of making mainstream movies is so high and a hit is so rare (let alone getting back any costs even if it is a hit,) most people are too skittish, relying on what worked before. When something successful out of the box does appear (such as The Sixth Sense for an example) others try to change their type of movie production to "copy" this "magic formula" so they can make some guaranteed profits. This is why people keep seeing the "same kind of film over and over" after a blockbuster new movie succeeds.
(Several years back when adaptations of novels, remakes of old movies, and TV shows seemed to guarantee people attending theaters in an age of home theater and on demand from anything with a broadband attached to it; the movie industry as a whole continued to make many of its major releases this way and still do in a declining profit base year after year compared to years past.)
And for all those older gamers out there, I'm sure you all remember the major mess Coca-Cola made in its attempt to "Pepsi Generation" its formula to "New Coke" (even with Max headroom telling us to "Catch the Wave.") To this day, our "baseline" beverage is called "Coca-Cola Classic" even though "New Coke" went the way of the "Judges Guild" (and unlike JG, New Coke never had a retro comeback in 1999 selling its old stuff.)
So yes, sometimes change can be quite bland and pedestrian to just plain horribly stupid.
But to summarize a trekkie metaphore: If Picard didn't take any risk to his own life, he would end up in astrometrics with no focus (and notice I'm using a Star Trek reference even though it's not from the "original" series and yet I consider myself a trekkie not trekker.)
For those not in the Star Trek know and also for those wanting a more verbose description or refresher: This means that the main character's life (Picard) hangs in the balance due to a previous heart replacement he got from a brash action he took as a young man. An omnipotent being appeats to him while he is near death and offers to take him back to his past and make that brash act never happen, causing Picard to not act so cocky and "play it safe" for the rest of his past life until the "no direction alternate present" is revealed. Well, he decides to take that "fix the past" decision back and risk dying so he could "live" his life even if ending up prematurely dead. Well, it appears this was all just a near-death dream (or, was it....)and he gets to live through the operation after all.
While much much much longer than many of my other gaming forum posts, there is a concise point to all this long posting:
You may succeed, you may fail, but you will never grow if you don't try. It hurts when we lose things the way they were, but all things change, even the things we love. You can choose not to change certain things, but you also choose to not grow there either. Life is risk and life is a safe decision, and sometimes it's hard to leave the latter for the former. We do fear what we do not know which is why we don't easily change as much as we try to keep the same what we feel more attached to (in life as well as in gaming.)
So, please try to understand: change happens (four letter word happens reference intentional.) Try to welcome it, or leave it if you can when it doesn't work out. But try at least. See what it offers before being told what is is by those who are guessing rather than experiencing it firsthand themselves. Take the chance, especially if (in D&D) you can go back to an earlier version of it. That oppurtunity to try a new thing and be able to go back to what it was before is truly a rare thing, so celebrate such opportunity.
And finally (if one would be so kind as to forward this last part to him at least):
Thank yo so much Ed! Thank you so much for your stories and the land it created; thank you for making The Realms. Thank you for sharing your stories publically just by sitting and talking with us players.
Thank you for (even) working with the RPGA and Living City even dressing up as Elmister for a cameo in a Living City Interactive at GenCon (Temdon Alabar my PC reacted shocked when you identified that poison by tasting it even though he [and I long before he was created] knew nothing so "mundane" could hurt the big E...rest in peace after dying on the Tanari plane Temdom.)
Even when this FR child matured and had its own life with D&D companies (notice the plural there folks,) I always appreciated your contributions.
So thank you for your love of your child the Forgotten Realms. Even with your child grown up and we all now are "changing" the path you took your child all these years for a new direction, your love is still clearly showing.
All I (humbly of course) ask is as long as you are allowed and still on this plane of existance, you continue making stories about the wonderful Forgotten Realms to share with us in awe of your magical place.
I eagerly look forward to the new Sagas of the Fourth Age.
Thank you Ed! |
I AM,
--the truthseeker |
Edited by - the truthseeker on 23 Oct 2007 13:46:05 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2007 : 16:12:08
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I don't consider myself averse to any change, but the changes that I *do* know about aren't sitting well with me. For the record, I am a "youngish" Realms fan and I do enjoy computer games (although not MMORPGs or multiplayer), so not all 4E Realms critics are have been around for a super long time. I certainly haven't been around 30 years--and as you demonstrate, not all "old-timers" are swearing off the new Realms.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Do stay awhile! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 12:26:44
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My biggest problem is not the changes. Yes cahnge can be good....without winter there can be no spring...blah ...blah..
I get that. I really do. I just do not like the patronizing tone of some of Wotc's statements after the Sh#& hit the fan.
I do not need someone telling me that they know what is best for me.
They cannot know what is best for the realms.....It is impossible for them to know better than the multitudes who live the realms.
Us. We the people....hello Mr WoTC bigshot...remember us??? We buy the novels...guides and handbooks...we make this world come to life.
All we ask is that you don't steamroll us on your way to get to these ellusive "new gamers". |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 12:42:12
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| One could easily set their Campaign in ANY point in time on Faerun. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 16:04:31
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Truthseeker, thanks for the great and thought-provoking post. I for one enjoyed it. Glad to have you aboard.
Steven Schend |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2007 : 15:29:50
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Exactly, WotC is making this huge gamble for the sake of money. What they fail to realize is tabletop RPGs is NEVER going to outdo MMORPGs. That's the nature of the tabletop RPG business. It's a niche style of gaming and the only ones keeping it alive are your hardcore fans and "grognards" that want it to stay as traditional as possible while upgrading the rules.
They made the huge mistake of believing that they could compete with MMORPGs, that by changing the flavor, style, and traditions of D&D by killing off so many sacred cows will actually entice new, young players. They fail to realize that young, new players ARE already enticed by the game where it currently stands.
But no, they just want the money and it's not about the sake of the game anymore. I don't know if this is their doing, or Hasbro's, but either way I really hope this fails.
Why do I hope it fails big time? Think about it. If it doesn't do them any good, guess what will happen? They either go back to what they were originally doing ("Darn, we should've stuck with 3.5E, it's not too late!") or they sell off D&D to someone who will truly treat the game the way it was treated in 1E, 2E, and 3E in the pre-4E construction era (Paizo anyone?)
At the most...I can see 4E doing great for the first year alone probably....then sales shrink back to the way it was with 3E, maybe even much worse because of all the fans they angered. Their true customers. Not the ones who dip into D&D for a bit, and then go back to their MMORPGs because those games are much cooler, quicker, and better visually.
They did all this to the Realms just because of the 4E rules mechanics...there were simpler ways to do this---kill off Mystra, Spellplague happens, she comes back after some time (not 100 years) where magic has changed drastically and deities are dead, she fixes up the Weave, actually likes the changes to magic and keeps it, and helps resurrect all the dead deities with the others, good, neutral, or evil, to start over. Done.
But whatever, the Realms is dead...I don't care what anyone says. Not ALL change is good. I am tired of that stupid saying. I repeat, not ALL change is GOOD. Stop living in denial by making statements like that to ignore the fact that the Realms, and D&D entirely, is switching over not as a whole new system but as a whole new GAME itself...they just kept the labels for its market value. That's it.
In the end, it's our fault for letting WotC do this. I'm surprised a mass riot isn't at their doorsteps right now or a picket line. I'd do it myself if only I lived closer to their headquarters.
And finally, folks, exactly just how long until 5th Edition? 3.5e only lasted 4 years, with 2 of those years they began working on 4E. It won't be more than 5 years until 5th Edition is released next. Maybe people will learn by then to actually truly give WotC the verbal beating they need. |
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Wise words from Ed, regarding 4e FR
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