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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Sep 2007 : 19:58:04
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quote:
Originally posted by lokilokust
see, i think you, and others, may be looking at the term 'world' too literally.
(especially since 'world's colliding' has often been used to refer to a great influx of one culture into another.)
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also, it strikes me that if quite some time is to have passed between 3.5 and 4e, it could be interesting to have a sort of 'forgotten realms in a new dark age' campaign.
How am I taking it literally? I am specifically referring to the phrase's usage for cultural influxes. What I am saying is that with the existence of other worlds (the planes) being a known fact, another continent is not going to be thought of as another world. It doesn't matter how different the culture is, it's going to be a known fact that it is from the same world. In other words, the term won't be used when there are, literally, other worlds known to exist. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2007 : 22:28:15
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| I wonder if there is any truth to the rumor that the "colliding of worlds" has something to do with an Amusement park ride.....a group of kids.....a Unicorn....a sort bald guy in a robe...and some dude named Venger? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 04:05:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by lokilokust
i had read somewhere, just the other day, that there was going to be some sort of mass migration from the eastern realms... which would explain the 'two worlds colliding' bit, i'd say.
That is referenced in the GHotR, 1381 DR Year of the Starving p159
I'm inclined to disagree. I don't think that, in a world where other planes of existence are a known and verifiable fact, that a distant continent would be thought of as another world.
I agree. I had hoped the above entry would show that the influx of Shou into the Realms was not the "world-colliding" event. It's merely a blurb about hunger forcing the Shou to move westward. From everything we've seen so far, this event will be much larger than incoporating a few (or even many) Shou expatriates into Faerun. |
War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
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Wizbane
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 10:25:50
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New speculation, this time for real. And I still like the Sundering override theory of Markustay because...it fits.
Abeir is the other side of Abeir-Toril: <<all we've seen for decades is Toril>> and the <<discordant and disastrous joining of two worlds...>> (there's no mention of "collisions" so far, so no space-level event) is the nullification of the Sundering: a new land is to appear to the W-NW, where Drizzt has a first-line view of the events, not to the far east. A new playground for adventurers, in the spirit of 4E "more places to go adventuring" and "new never-before-seen things to come but without breaking established lore".
Wizbane
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Edited by - Wizbane on 25 Sep 2007 10:28:55 |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 10:38:45
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| lets melt the northen icecaps unearthing some anceint cultures that's in some kind of temporal stasis |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Aewrik
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 13:40:21
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Heh... didn't the planar boundaries weaken after Mystras death?
Perhaps they're merging Plancescape and FR? You know, place Sigil outside the Sword Coast, and the elves can walk over to Faerûn.
Hm. I hoped to write something more serious, but... you know... I'll just write another topic about it. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 16:45:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wizbane
New speculation, this time for real. And I still like the Sundering override theory of Markustay because...it fits.
Now that I have the GHotR, I feel even more strongly about this. The way certain things are worded - From 1385 DR:
"...and the very substance of the world becomes mutable..."
Read: maps subject to change in 4e.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Sep 2007 16:46:27 |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 19:37:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Wizbane
New speculation, this time for real. And I still like the Sundering override theory of Markustay because...it fits.
Now that I have the GHotR, I feel even more strongly about this. The way certain things are worded - From 1385 DR:
"...and the very substance of the world becomes mutable..."
Read: maps subject to change in 4e.
Well, that says it all, and it fits with what WotC seesm to be doing - we're headed for LIMBO...
And that would also bring the circle back around for some of the original creator races... |
Edited by - Mumadar Ibn Huzal on 25 Sep 2007 19:38:54 |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 23:59:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Sian
lets melt the northen icecaps unearthing some anceint cultures that's in some kind of temporal stasis
Actually, I remember that Ed has mentioned some ancient cities being buried under the High Ice... |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 22:51:39
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Okay, we are getting some Fäerie coverage.
Now I'm thinking back to my earlier thoughts, about the return of the Fey/Le'Shay.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070926a
The Feywild?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 02:20:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Okay, we are getting some Fäerie coverage.
Now I'm thinking back to my earlier thoughts, about the return of the Fey/Le'Shay.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070926a
The Feywild?
Perhaps a quick synopsis for those who can't log in? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 02:27:12
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Perhaps a quick synopsis for those who can't log in?
If you can explain why you can't register...
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 02:39:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Perhaps a quick synopsis for those who can't log in?
If you can explain why you can't register...
Ah, I will have to do that.
I assumed a membership($) was required, I had heard rumors that dragon info online was only accessable with a monthly fee.
Thanks! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 02:48:09
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Perhaps a quick synopsis for those who can't log in?
If you can explain why you can't register...
Ah, I will have to do that.
I assumed a membership($) was required, I had heard rumors that dragon info online was only accessable with a monthly fee.
Thanks!
Not yet but it will be. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 04:29:31
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| I am hoping that we see some light shed on Anchorome....and maybe this is what the colliding of worlds will be.....maybe some old school creator races raise their ugly heads from that continent. I have heard that they left this landmass alone so DM's could develop it in their own campaigns. But I think this never really happened due to the complete lack of info on it. And I do remember from the Grey Box set there being a small hint of information about this area. Just my 2 cents. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 12:53:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Ah, I will have to do that.
I assumed a membership($) was required, I had heard rumors that dragon info online was only accessable with a monthly fee.
Thanks!
Not yet but it will be. :)
Dastards!!!.........OH well it's there site |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Kheris
Seeker
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 14:36:27
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I have to say, after reading this, I keep coming back to Markustay's Sundering hypothesis. Not only does it work, but we did get to see a relatively large section on it in the GHotR (or am I hallucinating?) and I tend to take that as the editors saying "Look at this part! It's important!!" 
If a new landmass appears to the west (hopefully without destroying Evermeet or the other isles) it may displace the "Unknown Lands" drawn in the western section of the flat world map shown in the FRCS for 3e (it's near the back of the book, if you're looking for it.)
There is one other thing that's been gnawing at me after reading The Last Mythal and the GHotR, and that is the repeated mention of the Yuirwood and Sildeyuir(sp?), combined with the attentions of a High Mage. Does it seem that the Star Elves, their demi-plane and the critters trying to devour it have a larger roll to play, or am I just fixated on minutiae? |
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BlackMoria
Acolyte
Canada
36 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 16:03:13
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quote:
There is one other thing that's been gnawing at me after reading The Last Mythal and the GHotR, and that is the repeated mention of the Yuirwood and Sildeyuir(sp?), combined with the attentions of a High Mage. Does it seem that the Star Elves, their demi-plane and the critters trying to devour it have a larger roll to play, or am I just fixated on minutiae?
Could be. We know that a number of planes get destroyed and Sildeyuir is a plane. Sildeyuir may go down like the proverbial sinking ship and all the star elves (and the nilhai(sp?) invaders) abandon ship through the portals back into the Yuirwood. Now you have a large displaced star elf population in need of a home. How will the Yuir respond (wars are often fought over land and resources)? How will Aglarond respond with perhaps hundreds or tens of thousands of Star Elves suddenly appearing in their figurative back yard? |
Edited by - BlackMoria on 27 Sep 2007 16:09:36 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 16:18:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Okay, we are getting some Fäerie coverage.
Now I'm thinking back to my earlier thoughts, about the return of the Fey/Le'Shay.
What's kind of weird though is how they specifically differentiated the elf mage who embraced being an eladrin in the recent novels focusing on the fey'ri and Comanthyr. Of course, that could also be a tip off that if the two worlds (faerie and Toril <faerun>) re-merge that the gold elves will re-embrace their previous heritage... maybe? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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BlackMoria
Acolyte
Canada
36 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 17:35:47
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Well, Rich Baker has confirmed that the FR cosmology will be the new default 4e cosmology.
Here is a link for your edification about the 4e cosmology to see where we are heading.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070926a
Now it is clear why the Spellplague destroyed some planes and swept away others. The entire multi-verse got re-ordered and changed to fix the new cosmology. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 18:14:02
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackMoria
Well, Rich Baker has confirmed that the FR cosmology will be the new default 4e cosmology.
Here is a link for your edification about the 4e cosmology to see where we are heading.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070926a
Now it is clear why the Spellplague destroyed some planes and swept away others. The entire multi-verse got re-ordered and changed to fix the new cosmology.
Well, I thought that perhaps the Forgotten Realms would become the default setting...but I had no idea the death of Mystra would re-organize the cosmology of EVERY world! That's hard to swallow for me...even places like Greyhawk, Eberron, etc...?
I'm sorry...I'll just ignore the why and go on with what is. I don't think Boccob or Istus of Greyhawk would like the idea that a goddess from FR caused their existence to be so altered...and I don't think that was WotC intention in truth. It is just going to have to be one of those "This is how it has always been in Greyhawk!" things or just ignore the new way.
Making the Abyss so seemingly small in the Elemental Chaos...and then having the Nine Hells in the Astral...
That makes the Abyss an "inner" plane now and closer to the worlds. I wonder how some of the Planar Magic available to casters will work now? According to this description, you only need to be able to access the Elemental area to gain access to the Abyss.
And how will this turn out in the formerly important Blood War? Where will the battle-field be for the armies of the Abyss and Nine Hells if they are essentially cut off from each other since the Abyss doesn't seem to "float in the Astral Sea" any longer like the Nine Hells, Acheron and Pandemonium.
The new incarnation of the book that explains the outer "planes" may have to use entirely new terminology since it doesn't seem like Planes is at all accurate...
Guess we will have to wait and see! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 18:25:04
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I have a feeling that Blood War is probably scragged. I'm sure the planes have actually always been this way . . .
Somehow this time we got an explanation for why the FR planes changed, but we didn't get an explanation for why the planes in general changed, so somehow FR has a different history for the same plane now because they did give us an explanation . . .
So now that there is a one multiverse we have at least two origins for it, but before when multiple cosmologies, they had the same origin for many planes . . .
I'm really glad they are taking the time to simplify this stuff. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 19:19:18
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I have a feeling that Blood War is probably scragged. I'm sure the planes have actually always been this way . . .
They seriously can't be so incompetent that they take the blood war away, right? For me the War is the centerpiece of the lower planes. Taking it away diminishes all the fiends, not just the Tana'ri and the Baatezu. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 19:30:01
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I have a feeling that Blood War is probably scragged. I'm sure the planes have actually always been this way . . .
They seriously can't be so incompetent that they take the blood war away, right? For me the War is the centerpiece of the lower planes. Taking it away diminishes all the fiends, not just the Tana'ri and the Baatezu.
I could be wrong, I've not heard anything that specifically stated this, but there hasn't been any mention of the Blood War either, and with the Abyss being an "elemental" plane and the Nine Hells being an "astral domain," its not like its a war in the Lower Planes anymore, since that doesn't really apply.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 19:56:53
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I'm really glad they are taking the time to simplify this stuff.
Quite True.
The Bloodwar does pose a bit of problem - I wonder how they will handle that?
If they give us an IG explanation for the changes (which I doubt), maybe they will blame the 'shattering of the Wheel' on the Bloodwar itself? Obviously the shake-up in FR has had extra-dimensional reprecussions (or the other way around), so perhaps this particular re-write will be covered in core books, rather then setting-specific ones. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 20:21:51
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Ironically, the best "in game" explanations for any cosmology changes they had was Die, Vecna, Die, but for some reason, after creating that excuse for planar changes, they turned around and swore that the planes never changed, that they had always been the way they are (both in the Core setting and in FR). Why did they even create that explanation then?
At any rate, that might almost serve as an explanation, if they choose to use it. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 22:44:25
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Getting rid of the "Tree cosmology" is a good idea IHMO. It wasn't fun and disliked by fans.
I'm waiting to see how they will deal with Shadowfell + Fugue plain.
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 23:45:30
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I'll say this for the new cosmology... the THIRD cosmology that has been used.
   
No, I actually didn't mind the tree (matter of fact, it fit with the wheel, depending on the planar lore used <planescape allowed for it).
So, again, I'm not the target audience.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 23:49:50
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Aye, the Fugue plain will need to be apparently absorbed by what I deem to be the new Shadow Plane. The Shadowfell kinda makes more sense to me though...it is a good idea: spirits that leave the world would perhaps go to such a place before moving into the plane of their god. I'm just curious how they will play it all out.
One of the reasons I thought they were saying "You should perhaps simply start all new characters..." is that there are going to be LOTS of things contrary to what has been before, and characters may then exist if we use them that have been to places that "never were" to start with. Oh well...time will tell.
I'm really partial to some of what is to come. The FR before didn't have a unique cosmos of its own...but now it will be something better than the Tree...although they will need to explain away creatures like the serpent that was gnawing on that Tree (can't remember big ol' blackies name off the top of my head).
If they aren't careful, one of the traps they may fall in is contradicting canon...which is what I thought was one of the reasons they were pushing the timeline so far ahead: to give themselves creative room. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 00:27:51
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The Fugue plane should become the 'Border Shadow' - a concept Gray and I tossed around awhile back. Similar to the border ethereal, it would be where things like 'spirits' hangout, with some of them getting 'stuck' and being unable to move on.
In fact, I'm not sure where they're fitting the Ethereal into all of this, so that plane itself can become the 'Shadow Border' - something very similar to the Mists of Ravenloft or "The Ways" of WoT. A convenient way to get to the other planes, but make one wrong turn and BAM!
You're outta here. 
I think the Fugue Plane could fit well into that - a sort of in-between state of life (Prime Material) and death (the outer planes). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Oct 2007 00:28:22 |
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Time of Troubles 2.0 - Your opinion?
