| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 18:58:31
|
| The concept of this new cosmology sounds actually very interesting, and I like it - but not as FR-Cosmology, but as cosmology for a new setting. There are so many changes, it is nearly impossible to explain how the Great Tree became something like that (and the description sounds as if the world was alway like that - not only since very recently). |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
 |
|
|
Iliphar1
Learned Scribe
Austria
133 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 20:28:52
|
I can't believe it,
The main thing that excels the Forgotten Realms from so many countless different settings is the long story and the fact, that it has become an alive world.
Now they take that away and turn the FR into something, that exists countless times as well: A campaign without background, just the setting and maybe a few supplements. |
'You see dead bones? ... I see an army!' Ezechiel 37 |
|
|
|
Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 20:43:26
|
quote:
Now they take that away and turn the FR into something, that exists countless times as well: A campaign without background, just the setting and maybe a few supplements.
I had hoped FR fans would be able to hold off on snap judgments.
I trust the developers.
|
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
Kes_Alanadel
Learned Scribe
USA
326 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 15:26:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
Now they take that away and turn the FR into something, that exists countless times as well: A campaign without background, just the setting and maybe a few supplements.
I had hoped FR fans would be able to hold off on snap judgments.
I trust the developers.
Well for me, and granted all that I have read about 4e comes from the scrolls on this site, my trust is something they have yet to earn. These are, after all, the same people who for the last two years have been lying to their fan base. That in and of itself makes me trusting anything they say very, very hard. 
~Kes |
Ack! I seem to have too much blood in my coffee stream!
When did 'common sense' cease to be common? |
Edited by - Kes_Alanadel on 10 Oct 2007 15:32:35 |
|
|
|
Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 18:44:57
|
| well ... IMO lying is to harsh a word to use ... keep from leaking info's that shouldn't be leaked at the preticular time on the other hand |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 19:20:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sian
well ... IMO lying is to harsh a word to use ... keep from leaking info's that shouldn't be leaked at the preticular time on the other hand
Well many of us are used to NDA here, when WotC wasked about a 4th it appears they did not use that. Instead saying things like.
"There are no plans for a 4th Edition at this time."
I would have to parse actual quotes to see if statements were out right lies. As far as it goes some quotes might might be from some people that did not know of the 2 year in place plan. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 03:29:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Sian
well ... IMO lying is to harsh a word to use ... keep from leaking info's that shouldn't be leaked at the preticular time on the other hand
Well many of us are used to NDA here, when WotC wasked about a 4th it appears they did not use that. Instead saying things like.
"There are no plans for a 4th Edition at this time."
I would have to parse actual quotes to see if statements were out right lies. As far as it goes some quotes might might be from some people that did not know of the 2 year in place plan.
There was also the time (I think it was at the Winter or D&D experience this last year) that when asked about 4e, they commented:
(I am paraphrasing here) "We got a big chuckle about that, and we wondered when someone would ask us about 4e". It wasn't a denial, though it was written as to sound like one, and looking back I guess I can understand why they were laughing. |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
|
|
|
Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 05:51:34
|
| NDA-Dancing for the win :) |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
|
|
|
keijemon
Acolyte
49 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2008 : 20:03:24
|
Well, now that FR Campaign Guide is out, we know that Asmodeus ended the Blood War after getting his godhood "back" (since he, retroactively, had it before and lost) by om-nom-noming Azuth.
Stopping the blood war isn't what I would've liked, but I can forgive them for a lot after they've fixed the single greatest gripe I had with the setting (fluff wise). They didn't just kill an incarnation of Mystra (like during ToT and Karsus), but they've eliminated her entire existence.
While I didn't particularly dislike her as a character (as presented by her appearances in the novels), I hated what she represented. Oppressive control, selfishness and self-service. She only existed to control the weave, and the weave only needed controlling because she came to exist as a conscious part of it. While presenting a "good and benevolent" facade, she in fact was by far the most despotic deity in FR. While constantly going on about spreading magical knowledge, she held tight control on what kind and how much, setting strict limits, essentially having everyone spin wheels in one place. She was FR's One True Cage. If she were to release her control, chaos would ensue (as it now did) as people wouldn't be able to handle the power, since they grew up without it. If she never existed, the world would've developed with full access to magic and everything would've found its own equilibrium from the get go. I never thought they would get rid of her, since that would create aforementioned chaos which won't be ease to quell, but they did. For the sheer show of reason and guts that decision represent I am willing to give the team behind FR every single benefit of a doubt.
Here is hoping they won't chicken out and resurrect her or bring someone else to take up her mantle. |
The greatest trick Ao ever pulled, is convincing Toril he didn't exist. |
|
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 00:34:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by keijemon
Well, now that FR Campaign Guide is out, we know that Asmodeus ended the Blood War after getting his godhood "back" (since he, retroactively, had it before and lost) by om-nom-noming Azuth.
Stopping the blood war isn't what I would've liked, but I can forgive them for a lot after they've fixed the single greatest gripe I had with the setting (fluff wise). They didn't just kill an incarnation of Mystra (like during ToT and Karsus), but they've eliminated her entire existence.
While I didn't particularly dislike her as a character (as presented by her appearances in the novels), I hated what she represented. Oppressive control, selfishness and self-service. She only existed to control the weave, and the weave only needed controlling because she came to exist as a conscious part of it. While presenting a "good and benevolent" facade, she in fact was by far the most despotic deity in FR. While constantly going on about spreading magical knowledge, she held tight control on what kind and how much, setting strict limits, essentially having everyone spin wheels in one place. She was FR's One True Cage. If she were to release her control, chaos would ensue (as it now did) as people wouldn't be able to handle the power, since they grew up without it. If she never existed, the world would've developed with full access to magic and everything would've found its own equilibrium from the get go. I never thought they would get rid of her, since that would create aforementioned chaos which won't be ease to quell, but they did. For the sheer show of reason and guts that decision represent I am willing to give the team behind FR every single benefit of a doubt.
Here is hoping they won't chicken out and resurrect her or bring someone else to take up her mantle.
I disliked the last incarnation of Mystra very much. Myself I hope she returns in a form much more like Earlier incarnations and neutral. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 01:28:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by keijemon
Well, now that FR Campaign Guide is out, we know that Asmodeus ended the Blood War after getting his godhood "back" (since he, retroactively, had it before and lost) by om-nom-noming Azuth.
Stopping the blood war isn't what I would've liked, but I can forgive them for a lot after they've fixed the single greatest gripe I had with the setting (fluff wise). They didn't just kill an incarnation of Mystra (like during ToT and Karsus), but they've eliminated her entire existence.
While I didn't particularly dislike her as a character (as presented by her appearances in the novels), I hated what she represented. Oppressive control, selfishness and self-service. She only existed to control the weave, and the weave only needed controlling because she came to exist as a conscious part of it. While presenting a "good and benevolent" facade, she in fact was by far the most despotic deity in FR. While constantly going on about spreading magical knowledge, she held tight control on what kind and how much, setting strict limits, essentially having everyone spin wheels in one place. She was FR's One True Cage. If she were to release her control, chaos would ensue (as it now did) as people wouldn't be able to handle the power, since they grew up without it. If she never existed, the world would've developed with full access to magic and everything would've found its own equilibrium from the get go. I never thought they would get rid of her, since that would create aforementioned chaos which won't be ease to quell, but they did. For the sheer show of reason and guts that decision represent I am willing to give the team behind FR every single benefit of a doubt.
Here is hoping they won't chicken out and resurrect her or bring someone else to take up her mantle.
Wow... That is an interpretation of Mystra I have never seen before. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Neil
Learned Scribe
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 02:14:32
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I disliked the last incarnation of Mystra very much. Myself I hope she returns in a form much more like Earlier incarnations and neutral.
I wouldn't go so far as to say I disliked her, but it seemed difficult to square a neutral good goddess of magic with the fact that magic is frequently a tool of evil, especially in places like Thay.
What I came up with is that Mystra's job isn't so much worrying about the use of magic, or knowledge of magic, but simply to maintain magic and the Weave. Canonically, she can block her enemies from using magic, but that must be a great strain and dereliction of her duty. |
|
|
|
Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 12:04:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by keijemon
Snipp
Confess: You are a follower of Shar, aren't you?  |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 14:50:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by keijemon
If she never existed, the world would've developed with full access to magic and everything would've found its own equilibrium from the get go.
Mystra's goal was to spread magic. No offense, but I think you've misunderstood the character. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
keijemon
Acolyte
49 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 15:36:42
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Confess: You are a follower of Shar, aren't you?
Actually, no. After reading Ed's Elminster books that featured her, and pretty much every book that featured Loviatar... I can't tell them apart as characters. If I was told to observe a person and based on his daily actions of devotion (that didn't mention goddess explicitly) tell you if he worships Shar or Loviatar, I couldn't do it. Well, aside from the Lady of Pain book, where Loviatar and her worshippers were portrayed as Bene Gesserit, including entire quotes from Dune inserted in.
Shar just seem like a cheap version of Vecna... in fact they should've just brought him in and killed her off, now that I think about it.
If anything I am a psi-shipper myself. I like the FR's view of psi powers coming from my own personal weave to do with as I please.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Mystra's goal was to spread magic. No offense, but I think you've misunderstood the character.
You can't outgrow a cage. Especially since with her later edicts (post Karsus) the cage kept shrinking. Her goal was to spread "toy" magic. And it further complicated the job of game designers, because the outsides (demons/devils/etc) had to be gimped in order for toy mages to be on-par spell casters. |
The greatest trick Ao ever pulled, is convincing Toril he didn't exist. |
|
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 16:40:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Neil
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I disliked the last incarnation of Mystra very much. Myself I hope she returns in a form much more like Earlier incarnations and neutral.
I wouldn't go so far as to say I disliked her, but it seemed difficult to square a neutral good goddess of magic with the fact that magic is frequently a tool of evil, especially in places like Thay.
What I came up with is that Mystra's job isn't so much worrying about the use of magic, or knowledge of magic, but simply to maintain magic and the Weave. Canonically, she can block her enemies from using magic, but that must be a great strain and dereliction of her duty.
I disliked "Midnight" when she was running around like an overwrought teen blocking magic from other dieties and controlling how it was used, etc.
To be fair I did not like it when Kelemvor wasn't doing "his job" judging souls correctly. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 16:54:31
|
*sigh* Those events happened in one novel, and in one novel only -- they never appeared anywhere else, and there was never an in-game effect from it. It was a plot device.
I'm getting to where I wish that book had never been written, because I keep seeing people refer to it as indicative of why Mystra was a problem.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2008 : 17:27:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by keijemon
You can't outgrow a cage. Especially since with her later edicts (post Karsus) the cage kept shrinking. Her goal was to spread "toy" magic. And it further complicated the job of game designers, because the outsides (demons/devils/etc) had to be gimped in order for toy mages to be on-par spell casters.
Well, I guess here is where we'll just have to agree to disagree. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Time of Troubles 2.0 - Your opinion?
