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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 02:04:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
I am a wizard in almost all my games so I am on pins and needles as I await what will happen to my wizards much loved weave (hahaha, that just sounds funny). Should I start chanting in Azuth we trust? 
Heh--I'm a mage-lover, myself. Magic makes the Realms go 'round; destroying the Weave seems very wrong to me. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 03:51:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Heh--I'm a mage-lover, myself. Magic makes the Realms go 'round; destroying the Weave seems very wrong to me.
And that's the crux of the issue. If magic was not so integral a component, I doubt we'd be seeing such fervent opinions concerning the post-1375 events bouncing about the halls of Candlekeep right now. If there were, say, a RSE in-game economic crash (as the in-game counterpart to a hypothetical 4th Edition change in the D&D specie), it might just be as devastating to the merchant class in-world as the Spellplague shall be to mages. However, it would not draw anywhere the amount of player interest, for the sole fact that the Realms isn't held up as a world by economics in the same way it's been supported by magic through its history.
quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
I am a wizard in almost all my games so I am on pins and needles as I await what will happen to my wizards much loved weave (hahaha, that just sounds funny). Should I start chanting in Azuth we trust?
And Wandering Mage, I'm sticking my Azuth pin on my pointy hat as we speak.  |
One usually has far more to fear from the soft-spoken wizard with a blade and well-worn boots than from the boisterous one in the ivory tower.
My Tabletop Writing CV. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 04:40:19
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I've been looking for a "crux" event that would be a good shunt point for an alternate timeline, but part of the problem that I am having is that there isn't so much one event that spawns everything that I am not thrilled with. In other words, I have some ideas on the Cyric related matters, but the Dwarven pantheon war is just difficult to juggle.
And for everyone that has been a proponent of hanging in there, I'm trying to, by finding things in the timeline that I do want to follow up on and that I would have happen even if I don't go down the 4th edition road. |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 06:39:28
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| well ... as i said ealier, Mystra's dead seem to pose an issue ... how would Cleric and other divine spellcasters get spells now? ... they get their spells through the Weave (which is the reason that Mystra V1.0 could limit it to level 9 magic) ... the only caster i don't feel would have a major problem with in that context is Warlocks since they as far as i feel don't have all that much connection with the weave as ANY other spellcaster |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 06:43:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Heh--I'm a mage-lover, myself. Magic makes the Realms go 'round; destroying the Weave seems very wrong to me.
If the Weave had any real impact on how spellcaster launch spells in the Realms, it would feel wrong to me too.
I prefer no-Weave than "pretend it exists but it doesn't change anything* from core D&D".
In fact, a less "Vancian" core D&D magic system is more like the Weave depicted in pre-3E era novels.
*Ok, a couple of often non-relevant details. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 19 Sep 2007 06:51:44 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 09:09:23
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| On a sidenote ... Weave and spellcasters and all ... just imagine all those new / restored Elven Mythals and cities, brought back into existence only recently and then, "Apocalypse Now". Unless, via Corellon's intervention (big yawn), they are save ... |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 17:06:00
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I've been looking for a "crux" event that would be a good shunt point for an alternate timeline, but part of the problem that I am having is that there isn't so much one event that spawns everything that I am not thrilled with. In other words, I have some ideas on the Cyric related matters, but the Dwarven pantheon war is just difficult to juggle.
And for everyone that has been a proponent of hanging in there, I'm trying to, by finding things in the timeline that I do want to follow up on and that I would have happen even if I don't go down the 4th edition road.
Kill Cyric before anything goes down - he was also somehow responsible for the death of Helm. Figure Savras 'foresaw' his own death, and was waiting for Cyric and killed him first (probably with Mystra's help).
That still leaves the problem with the Dwarven Pantheon, but you could either use it or say the 'Cyric' event caused Ao to summon all the gods and lay down new rules concerning deicide. Afterword, you can have Ao bring back Cyric, or even re-instate Baal to take his place (nearly un-doing the last terrible divine RSE). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Sep 2007 17:07:06 |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 22:04:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
It actually makes no sense.
This happened during the fall of Netheril, yet the effects were not so wide-spread. Magic may have winked out for a short time, but mages weren't driven mad (AFAIK), and mostly just Netheril suffered. Why didn't the same thing happen as last time?
Why didn't Mystra just 're-boot'? Is Ao missing? All of the Pantheons are effected by this, not just the Faerûnian one. The havoc amongst the gods is just as deadly and all-consuming.
This is not the ToT... the ToT was mild compared to this.
My guess as to why no re-boot... Shar was involved in aiding Cyric in the destruction. Mystra was born of Shar... Shar reabsorbed some of Mystra? Would explain some mages going insane, since she was known for making shadow weave users who didn't worship her take penalties. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 00:32:55
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The problem I have with this coming disaster (well, I have many, but one of the foremost) is the same problem I had when the Heroes of Might and Magic games went from 3 to 4: you started with a large, interesting world that many people had spent many years creating and expanding, and other people had spent even more time adventuring in and changing the course of. And then, suddenly, the game's creators for whatever reason (lack of creativity, desire to destroy things for the heck of it, whatever) completely nuked the world in the open of Heroes 4. And suddenly, nothing you did before mattered. Who cares if you spent months saving the kingdom, when that kingdom gets blasted to ash a few months later?
I didn't have a problem with the ToT, because for all its upheavals, the effects were fairly small and bred interesting adventure, and didn't greatly affect on-going games (at least not in my experience). You had some gods change, some new magical effects show up, and a couple crazy months, but it didn't invalidate what came before. If anything, the kingdom you just saved needs you even more, and, barring Waterdeep, many of the maurading problems are something adventurers could handle or at least mitigate.
I'm trying to avoid hyperbole (though as a long-time Realms fan I think the situation warrants it), but I'm having trouble seeing this move of blasting huge holes in the existing Realms as anything but a betrayal of everyone who has ever put time into adventuring in the Realms and trying to make it a better place. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 00:47:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I'm trying to avoid hyperbole (though as a long-time Realms fan I think the situation warrants it), but I'm having trouble seeing this move of blasting huge holes in the existing Realms as anything but a betrayal of everyone who has ever put time into adventuring in the Realms and trying to make it a better place.
Problem is, not every person who worked on the Realms did a good job, lot of junk was added to the setting during 2e era by designers who we never heard about again.
Am I the only one here thinking that a cleaning was necessery to make the design of the setting more focused ?
However, I don't know yet if the design of the new Realms will have my interest (game or novel). |
Edited by - Skeptic on 20 Sep 2007 00:47:43 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 01:05:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Am I the only one here thinking that a cleaning was necessery to make the design of the setting more focused ?
Well, I'm at the point where I already mentally "delete" stuff I dislike or don't want for my Realms (that already includes more than a few novel trilogies), so no, personally I wasn't itching for a "cleaning". Only very rarely does WotC "renounce" older lore by ignoring it or saying it's not canon, so I consider it unrealistic to expect WotC to get rid of what I dislike (and therefore, I do it myself).
Even if the Realms DOES need a cleaning, though, that doesn't mean there is only one way to do it, and not everyone is going to like the particular way that WotC has chosen. Hell, even that presupposes that WotC actually intends to clean anything. Some people are considering these changes to be WotC's way of returning the setting to "how it's supposed to be", but that doesn't mean that's the case! The truth could very well be that WotC wants to change the setting, pure and simple. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 01:10:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Some people are considering these changes to be WotC's way of returning the setting to "how it's supposed to be", but that doesn't mean that's the case! The truth could very well be that WotC wants to change the setting, pure and simple.
Yup, that's the problem. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 20 Sep 2007 01:11:06 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 03:57:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
And for everyone that has been a proponent of hanging in there, I'm trying to, by finding things in the timeline that I do want to follow up on and that I would have happen even if I don't go down the 4th edition road
I'm glad to hear that simply because I really enjoy the lore you create. I look forward to seeing your take on some of these atrocities of lore.
In case anyone is still interested, my version of why things happened, and how to potentially avoid them:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9917 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 04:43:02
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Agreed, there was some really stupid stuff added. Council of Blades, for instance. Blatant German rip-offs in Netheril. RotA and everything that's come from it (oops, that's 3e, but close enough). But there's also been a lot of good stuff, and more importantly, there's even more that has been built up slowly over years or decades (ie: the elven Retreat, to Evermeet the novel, to the Return and Myth Drannor's refounding, or the manuevers between the Zhents and their neighbors, or Hellgate Keep, etc.). Too much of this continuity seems to be being thrown out or trod over. I liked the slow accumulation, that's what made the Realms different from most other settings I've seen. I don't like see it being casually discarded.
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Problem is, not every person who worked on the Realms did a good job, lot of junk was added to the setting during 2e era by designers who we never heard about again.
Am I the only one here thinking that a cleaning was necessery to make the design of the setting more focused ?
However, I don't know yet if the design of the new Realms will have my interest (game or novel).
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Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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darkhuntress
Acolyte
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 07:52:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Am I the only one here thinking that a cleaning was necessery to make the design of the setting more focused ?
Well, I'm at the point where I already mentally "delete" stuff I dislike or don't want for my Realms (that already includes more than a few novel trilogies), so no, personally I wasn't itching for a "cleaning". Only very rarely does WotC "renounce" older lore by ignoring it or saying it's not canon, so I consider it unrealistic to expect WotC to get rid of what I dislike (and therefore, I do it myself).
Amen, sister. It's the only way to run the 3/3.5-era Realms, IMHO. If this crap is true, the canonical Realms are dead to me.
Vhaeraun ain't dead in my Realms, I'll tell you that much (I'd have a couple of female PCs fall on their swords if that were the case, including mine  ). He joined up with Sis, thinking to double cross her, but she's slowly "corrupting" him to CN. Their respective followers are not happy, at all. It's making for some fuuuun politics in the campaign, I'll tell you that much. XD WotC can try to Joss me all they want, but GHotR is likely to be the last book I buy from them, ever. |
"Do not mistake our kindness for gullibility, nor our hesitance to draw blades for cowardice. Contrary to what the spider kissers would have you believe, Dark Ladies are not addle-brained, pacifist weaklings. We'd have all died a long time ago if that were the case." --Lady Kariza de'Camyras, High Priestess of the Temple of the Silver Crescent |
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Bruce Donohue
Learned Scribe
Canada
131 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 14:20:30
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I wonder, if this situation will be handled like others have been when WOTC asked their fan base on their official forum for the imput, but greatly limited the method and ways for the fan base to respond, plus tell us, sorry we don't care what suggestions you bring, we have a established one way and that is it.
Yes this news is very disturbing to people such as myself that have loved and supported the Realms for over decade (minimum). Where I have been a consumer in a plethora of ways, where my dollars' worth of support has had far more reaching implications than I am sorry to say it the little newbie that trods into the Realms for the first time. In my humble opinion WOTC forgot who the main staple of their audiance and dollar power reliability has been: us. The ones that they are giving the distinct impression in not so many words, that we are Dinos. I simply do not understand this logic and I would care for an explination.
If the line was not making money because of us "Dinos", then how could we see such influx of products being developped on the Realms? Why would it be considered the Flagstone of WOTC's gaming products.
If this is a gamble in a marketing strategy, I sincerely in my opinion think that the strategem employed was flawed. Not enough energy was truly considered in who is the real audiance and the true buying power that ensures the fisability and future of the line that is slated to changed. There is nothing wrong with change, but when it is done in a manner that is truly half-qualked, that is where I digress.
Much in this move as well as to rippling after-shocks the major changes that will incur, also have a few flaws in the design mechanisms in place. The rules that have been so called cannonized as to the destruction of this and of that beyond the scope of just Mystra but other Gods, doesn't hold ground. The fact that Mystra is a link to Toril for many of these Gods, and many of them operated in other worlds as well. Their destruction shouldn't be possible if only to explain that maybe this particular aspect of the God that is linked to this world is destroyed or their aspect to this world, that being Toril, is temporarily lost. Take the example in your own cannon when you had the Mulhorandi Gods situation. Their access to Toril was blocked but the essence of the God was not destroyed.
Sidenote of interest, does that mean we are going to see a greater influx or adaptation that brings about more psionics into the Realms? After all it relies on no overpower, no deity, but is limited only to the inner strength and individual capacity of the person? I think Richard, you mentioned that psionics had no corrolation with the Weave when that long past debate was originally brought up. |
Edited by - Bruce Donohue on 20 Sep 2007 14:33:23 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 16:19:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Aewrik
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/rumors/rumor7.htm was written several years ago, but I think it might have foretold the future, somewhat.
[/beige]
What's really sad is that yes, they probably sold less of a book because they started putting more crunch and less fluff... they didn't foresee the future where players and DMs had so much crunch that they had no need for another PrC or Feat. The fluff was easier for the writer to make (to a degree, I would think), so long as he wasn't plaigarizing previous work. Things like adding some "this is what's happening politically now" or "here's an adventure hook" fill a book and later you can publish that crunch in another book. To me, that's why 3rd edition is dying in 7 years as opposed to 2nd edition which lasted around 12. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 16:27:52
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<<How about Elminster himself taking up that vacant post! He, Sage of all Sages,
<<lover of Mystra would be the perfect future god of hte Realms
Actually, we lost Savras. Elminster would make a good god of diviners. He's gods-be-damned nosy, apt to butt in and tell adventurers what's going on, and he loves the realms. Perhaps he could even take on illusion as well from Cyric (the god of discovery and trickery... you take his revelations with a grain of salt <g>). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 16:33:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
In 1384 DR, Tyr kills Helm in a romantic misunderstanding over the heart of Tymora. Though nothing can be proved, the gods believe that Cyric is somehow involved in Helm's death.
This could be Cyric in disguise  Cyric kills Helm and blames it on Tyr, then there are no judge and no trail.
Or Cyric makes Tyr think Helm is Cyric or somesuch |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 16:51:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Even Overgods go on Holiday? 
I just thought of something, would the Shadoweave survive the destruction of the weave?
If thats so, then only Shadowcasters will keep their levels in 4e. 
As Ed has pointed out, the shadowweave depends on the weave, and so it will be destroyed, too. Link.
Actually, I looked it up in MoF - It specifically says that if Mystra were to die and the Weave cease to exist, the Shadoweave would be UNHARMED.
Magic of Faerun is dated about the interaction of the Weave and Shadow Weave because the new Shadowdale module says that to harm one harms the other and vice versa, which is different then what was printed in MoF.
Page 12, "The Rite of Unwinding is a Sharran ritual intended to suppress the Weave in an ever-expanding region, slowly creating a dead magic zone to suppress the Weave without actually destroying it (which would also cause the Shadow Weave in the area to collapse.)"
So, this basically says if one dies the other dies as well. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 16:54:37
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>>The heart of the matter was, as they saw it, removing the platform of Ao's divine
>>dominance and obtaining new [and greater] positions and powers for themselves.
In essence, "Damn, my boss sucks! Hey, lets you and me try to take his position, I've got an idea". Then BAM! The boss catches them, shows them they were fools because what they were trying wouldn't have gotten him fired anyway. Ao "fires" him. So, Myrkul never wants to go work for that Boss again, because it'd mean a lot of boot licking... so rather than do that, he's gone off for a lesser paid position that gives him more flexibility to enjoy life.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 17:03:52
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<<Now, on to Tyr + Tymora:
As a side note, I find it really interesting that the alu-fiend, Alizya or whatever, and Kaanyr Vhok, and Zasian (sp?)... a cleric of Cyric... are up there in Tyr's back yard right now trying to do some trickery.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Salgorn the Humble
Acolyte
1 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 18:23:02
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Greetings all,
I have read most of the above posts and there is a point that I would like to bring to light.
If we can, just for a moment, suspend the idea of realms continuity and discuss a few changes up coming in 4e.
Mages are going to be able to cast spell-like effects with greater frequency and/or recover those abilities at an increased rate. I base this idea on a statement in a review that says a mage who has used all of his spells is still at 80% viability or some such.
They are also promoting the idea of three ‘Power Sources’ that abilities are granted from; the arcane, the divine and the martial. So I expect there to be many more ‘flashy’ melee classes then there were in any previous edition, if Tome of Battle is an indication.
The last thing to consider is that Wizards has made this choice and that all future products are going to be in 4th Edition format.
Now to consider the realms and the great changes they are enacting. Many have said that the realms doesn’t need a new RSE (Realms Shattering Event? This is my first post so I am unfamiliar with the term) but I feel that it is the only way to bring the realms through this as unscathed as possible.
If the first realms products available in 4E suddenly had our favorite NPC’s having access to abilities they never had before there would be a greater break in continuity. It could be said that each could deal with it on their own in their own settings but 4E is what everything is written in from this point forward and such disparities would continue in product after product after novel to where I don’t think you could just pretend that ‘its all the same’ as it was in 3E. Also it gives future writers a place that they all can start from instead of each explaining it differently in there own works.
Therefore they needed to do something that explains in canon what happened. If they didn’t, only then would the realms truly not exist anymore as the 3E realms would look nothing like the 4e realms if there wasn’t some explanation for the transition.
Now the explanation may be heavy-hand writing but I know the talent and creativeness of those who love the realms and I have no doubt that they will be able to take whatever pile of Rothe droppings the designers throw on the table and make it into something realms worthy with a fresh perspective on it and maybe a little tweeking.
Humbly,
Salgorn
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 19:46:45
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True Salgorn, very true.
But then, they are making all these changes because of a meta-gaming concept -new rules. A new setting would have been more appropriate for that, IMHO.
Anyhow, I was just bouncing around ideas elsewhere and came up with this - The current cataclysm is said to be related to another cataclysm form earlier in history, so I started thinking about what would have been on this scale - Fall of Mystryl? Orcgate Wars? The Imaskar God wars?
Perhaps...
But the only thing I know of that made these types of vast and sweeping changes to the Realms was The Sundering!
I have often joked over at the WotC boards that there is a perfect world somewhere, one where the Sundering never occurred and history continued on down another path. So, what if that is the 'merger' they are talking about? What if the Weave collapsing somehow caused a 'time rift', and the two worlds were drawn back together? The Sundering was said to have "reached back through time", so obviously the effect was being maintained by magic, and therefor might have reverted when magic 'went away'.
Think about it - the Elves might be called something different, other races (Warforged) may have arisen, the map would look very different, in fact... just about everything would change if Toril reverted back to the way it would have been, or, fitting that 'spoiler' quote, if it merged with an alternate reality where the Sundering never occurred!
I don't like it, but they could changed absolutely any lore they wanted to retroactively using that.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Sep 2007 19:54:29 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 19:56:19
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>> Now the explanation may be heavy-hand writing but I know the talent and creativeness
>> of those who love the realms and I have no doubt that they will be able to take
>>whatever pile of Rothe droppings the designers throw on the table and make it into
>>something realms worthy with a fresh perspective on it and maybe a little tweeking.
First, let me say, I'm still in this state of denial and interest at the same time. But, the one thing I can say is that they didn't NEED to do all this god-slaying in order to get things done for 4e. Magic changes? Well, maybe the new Mystra decided she was going to change the rules after she's had 27 years to think things over and settle herself into her role. The killing of the dwarven deities? Clearly to me it's so that there's only 1 evil dwarven deity and not a bunch of dwarven warrior gods. The dwarves are very warlike, why can't they have multiple warrior gods? I mean, humans have Tempus, Garagos, Red Knight, and even some others like Torm, Malar, and Helm could be considered soldierly deities. But, then I'm suspecting many of these human deities will be gone as well (Helm for one). The thing I see is they are trying to simplify the realms, and in doing so they're taking away some of what many folk really liked. I for one am going to miss Kiaransalee, but I won't miss Vhaeraun. I know others are the exact opposite. Also, if they advance the timeline too far ahead, they can easily denounce any NPC's that have been built up over time that they didn't want to have to think about.
So, in the end, it has nothing at all to do with 4th edition. It has everything to do with they let things get out of control and don't know what's where anymore. Furthermore, their new mantra is to bring new players in, and they can't do that if the learning curve is too far ahead of these new players. Do I like it? Ask me later. From an outside clinical view, I can see where the elimination of certain deities makes sense (Mystra for example). From an inside view, its stings a little.... but I won't deny that I've said in the past before all this that it would make sense to have deities of the various forms of magic (psionics, the various schools, etc...) that manage the "weave" between them all (and maybe one has "greater" control over an aspect of the weave (such as necromancy or divination or psionics), but he should be unable to deny it from any).
Ok, leaving emo mode, I can't stress enough, 4e had best have some way to have warrior-wizards... and I don't want it to be a separate class and its own frigging spell list. I don't care if I end up giving up 3 spellcasting levels instead of 1 like with eldritch knight. I don't care if I can't cast as well because I'm not holding a staff. I better be able to swing a sword, wear armor somehow, and still be as much a wizard as the next guy.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Kheris
Seeker
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 21:05:23
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We're all still reeling from that last page of the History (at least, I am). Let's give it some time, and hope that a few supporting (and clarifying) Realmslore articles find their way to Dragon. I have little doubt that the weeks and months following this will fill in the yawning chasms of our curiosity.
To be fair, I was hoping for something a little less drastic, like Mystra subsuming the Shadow Weave, which would leak out of the 'True' weave, and be somewhat out of her control. That, to me at least, would explain the sudden upswing in the number of spells being cast. But, I'm more than willing to see what comes of this change.
sleyvas, I wholeheartedly support real Fighter/Mages as well 
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 21:14:12
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My copy of the GHoTR is still four days away...
Anyone care to clue me in as to what this last few years in the book are about? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Kheris
Seeker
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 21:23:41
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Highlight for spoilers...
Effectively, Tyr kills Helm in a duel triggered by a misunderstanding. The gods feel Cyric's involvement, but either can't prove it, or simply don't act.
Cyric, aided by Shar, kills Mystra. Dweomerheart dissolves immediately, killing Savras. Azuth and Velsharoon are shunted into the Astral, and are currently MIA. The Outer Planes begin dissolving (thanks again, Cyric!  ), with only the Greater deities able to keep their realms intact. This also triggers the Spellplague, driving to madness and/or killing "thousands" of wizards.
Only one of the evil Dwarf gods is left, and two of the good ones died in the fight, but I don't recall the names offhand, and my book is at home.
In the Drow pantheon, only Lloth, Eliestrae and the slime god (see above remain, the others having been killed by the ladies.
That should be most of it...
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edbonny
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 04:05:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Perhaps...
But the only thing I know of that made these types of vast and sweeping changes to the Realms was The Sundering!
I have often joked over at the WotC boards that there is a perfect world somewhere, one where the Sundering never occurred and history continued on down another path. So, what if that is the 'merger' they are talking about? What if the Weave collapsing somehow caused a 'time rift', and the two worlds were drawn back together? The Sundering was said to have "reached back through time", so obviously the effect was being maintained by magic, and therefor might have reverted when magic 'went away'.
You may be on the money with this one. I read somewhere today about the name "Abeir-Toril." The designer started with the fact that Abeir-Toril is almost always called Toril, never called Abeir (hinting that a split had taken place in the past), and that what was happening to the Realms now was going to be the return of Abeir-Toril. If I find the link, I'll paste it here tomorrow.
Here is the link over at enworld:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=207612 |
Edited by - edbonny on 21 Sep 2007 16:04:35 |
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Time of Troubles 2.0 - Your opinion?
