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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 04:21:42
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Okay, I'm going to start one of these, Knight (darn you for getting me started on this!)... And it's an unusual devotee, seeing as wizards are some of the most powerful characters at moderate to high levels.
Wizards gain much power, but some of their abilities aren't always used by players (scribe scroll and summon familiar). While I think these are integral for some themes, others do not. I think that something must be done to fix this. One thought is that you may choose to have an Item Familiar (can't remember which issue of dragon), or no familiar and other benefits.
So, a first level wizard is left with 2 feat choices, essentially. The first one should be a feat, whether it be a metamagic, or item creation. Speaking of feats choices, many feats are around, such as Black Lore of Moil, that allow a character to "spontaneously cast" a select number of spells. I suggest that some of these feats are added to the list.
A familiar grants a "benefit" at the following levels: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19.
So, choose one of the following abilities off the list, no ability may be chosen more than once (I'm shooting for 7 abilities per category here, mainly because I want there to be variation among wizards, no ability should be overtly gamebreaking, although the Enduring Wizardry comes close...):
A Abilities:
Low-Light Vision (ex): This functions like the low-light vision, and doubles the length of low-light vision for characters who naturally have low-light vision.
Detecting Sight (su): This ability, usable 1 time per day +1 per point of intelligence or wisdom bonus, functions exactly like detect magic.
Enduring Wizardry (su): The character is considered to have the evasion ability for any spell he/she currently has memorized, this does not stack with any other evasion ability. (I see wizards as MORE able to avoid spell effects because they have knowledge of the spell coming at them, but if they don't have it memorized, they should not get a bonus ~d).
Domain Caster (as per Unearthed Arcana).
Summon Familiar as per the standard. I don't think the familiar is teribly gamebreaking, even adding its abilities to the list of abilities.
Smattering: A wizard may gain Speak Language as a class skill (It should be there anyways!! ~d)
Dexteritous: A wizard may gain the Sleight of Hand class skill (Sorry, but this is a tribute to a certain DL Wizard).
Other Special Abilities:
+1 Intelligence. I know, this seems a bit overpowere, but it may only be chosen once. This is a guaranteed hit with any player, especially since it means that they don't have to spend so much effort on the ability scores to make the character worthwhile, and it happens so late in the game that many characters won't see this ability.
Arcane Attacker (ex): The Wizard with this ability can replace his base attack bonus with his wizard class level for any spell requiring an attack roll (either ranged touch or otherwise).
Arcane Dodger (sp): Once per day, a wizard may sacrifice a spell of up to 3rd level to gain a +2 dodge bonus to armor class for one round per level.
Arcane Breakthrough (sp): Once per day per point of intelligence bonus (minimum 1), the wizard may increase the save DC of any single prepared spell by an amount equal to 1 per three levels in wizard (maximum +6 at 18th level). This bonus does not stack with heighten spell. (This ability might be a LOT too powerful, I'm love a 3/6/9/12/15/18 ability that scales here, so any suggestions welcome, my thoughts are a bonus to Concentration checks, a bonus to Decipher Scritp checks, a bonus to Spellcraft checks, or a bonus to Knowledge skills dealing with magic)
At levels 4 and 14 the wizard gains a bonus reserve feat (I like feats). This shouldn't break the class at all, and even if the character devoted ALL his feats to reserve feats, the character would have an endless supply of minor magical effects that make them more viable in the long term.
So, the class breaks down about like this:
1. Feat, A ability
2. Arcane Attacker
3. A ability, Arcane Breakthrough (+1)
4. Bonus Reserve Feat
5. Feat, A Ability
6. Arcane Breakthrough (+2)
7. A Ability
8. Arcane Dodger
9. A ability, Arcane Breakthrough (+3)
10. Feat
11. A Ability
12. Arcane Breakthrough (+4)
13. A ability
14. Bonus Reserve Feat
15. Feat, A Ability, Arcane Breakthrough (+5)
16. +1 Intelligence
17. A Ability
18. Arcane Breakthrough (+6)
19. A Ability
20. Feat
There, no dead levels. I'm especially fond of this type of caster, but I realize that it might be a wee bit too powerful, but I did nothing to the spellcasters spells. I might suggest that the wizard's progression gets slowed down a little bit, perhaps even taking a hint from spycraft and saying a level 1 wizard may only cast 0-level spells, and progress to first level spells at second level. Then just follow the normal progression. This makes fewer high level spells to balance the class at higher levels. So, YMMV, but it is a starting point for the discussion of a "no dead levels" wizard.
/d
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"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 04:36:09
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| Heh, I'll have to pick this one apart a bit more, since I stopped short of pondering the wizard just yet. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2007 : 17:47:28
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I'm just going to throw some things out there that come to mind, just to warm my mind up . I don't typically use familiars, BUT with the rules as currently setup and some of the prestige class possibilities (5 levels of abjurant champion d10, spellsword for a few levels d8, eldritch knight d6)... they can get some really good hit points going. I'd never use one as a light tank, but I can see where some might with the right enhancements.
I agree that there should be choices instead of definitely having scribe scroll and a familiar. For instance, I can see a mage who instead learns eschew materials and sudden still spell and/or sudden silent spell. Thus, the low level mage could use his charm person without drawing attention, or an illusion could be created, etc... I could also see brew potion as a possibility.
The DC raising thing, definitely needs to be cut. In addition spell focus would seem a great option for specialists, and perhaps it works better for specialists since they give up so much (a +2 instead of +1, then a +3 instead of +2 for greater spell focus).
Other options would be actually making counterspells viable. Perhaps reactive and improved counterspell are options. If someone traverses this path, perhaps it opens up for some kind of dispel magic ability. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2007 : 05:57:32
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Been working on a wizard that I'd be happy with. I think I came up with something worth putting on the thread.
The Wizard (level abilities, ignoring all other factors at the moment)
1. Scribe Scroll. Familiar or Feat
2. Devotion
3. (Gains level 2 spells)
4. Bonus Feat
5. (Gains level 3 spells)
6. Arcane Targetteer
7. (Gains level 4 spells)
8. Bonus Feat
9. (Gains level 5 spells)
10. Devotion
11. (Gains level 6 spells)
12. Bonus Feat
13. (Gains level 7 spells)
14. Boon of Intellect
15 (Gains level 8 spells)
16. Bonus Feat
17 (Gains level 9 spells)
18. Devotion
19. Arcane Breakthrough
20. Bonus Feat
Okay the summary of abilities:
The level one Familiar or Feat. Honestly, I think that a feat is a weaker choice, but I don't want to pin someone into something they'll hate. SO, the better option is the choice to me.
Bonus feats include: Item Creation, Reserve, and Metamagic.
Devotion: Choices, Choices, and more Choices. There are 6 abilities, and more could feasably be added if you wanted to. Each of these may only be chosen ONCE:
Low-Light Vision (ex): This functions like the low-light vision, and doubles the length of low-light vision for characters who naturally have low-light vision.
Detecting Sight (su): This ability, usable 1 time per day +1 per point of intelligence or wisdom bonus, functions exactly like detect magic.
Enduring Wizardry (su): The character is considered to have the evasion ability for any spell he/she currently has memorized, this does not stack with any other evasion ability. (I see wizards as MORE able to avoid spell effects because they have knowledge of the spell coming at them, but if they don't have it memorized, they should not get a bonus ~d).
Domain Caster (as per Unearthed Arcana)
Smatterings: A wizard may gain Speak Language as a class skill (It should be there anyways!! ~d)
Dexteritous: A wizard may gain the Sleight of Hand class skill
Boon of Intellect: A simple +1 Intelligence.
Arcane Breakthrough: Once per week ability (deciding here)
Choice A: Can cast in dead magic/wild magic zones without a chance of failure
Choice B: Can cast a spell that normally allows a saving throw without one
Choice C: Can cast a spell and ignore SR completely.
Enjoy, and please input on the Arcane Breakthrough.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2007 : 17:07:57
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| Wizards weren't powerful enough already? |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2007 : 17:35:28
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| if you start optimizing it then Wizards is in fact one of the weaker classes since there is a cap on how much damage a specific spell can do |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2007 : 07:27:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
Wizards weren't powerful enough already?
No. Not until, oh...9th level, maybe, when you finally get 5th-level spells and a decent spread of spell slots to work with. ESPECIALLY if your DM uses RAW Vancian casting, making every morning in-game an agony of trying to determine what the future may hold. Oops--I've cast only two spells so far today, and I now have no more memorized that are even vaguely useful in this particular encounter! My AC is pure Dex, I have no more hp than the weakest among the enemies we face, and I can't hit an enemy with a weapon to save my life! Cowardice becomes the better part of valor, and I can only wish I had expeditious retreat prepped. Sorry, friends Fighter, Rogue, and Monk--I'm of absolutely no more use to you right now, possibly not until I can sleep and study again. Just call me Deadweight. Deadweight that can change the color of your shirt for an hour.
/rant
Sorry, it's a peeve of mine  I know and agree that the class is great at higher levels, I just wish it had a better curve so as to be a little less rear-loaded. |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
Edited by - Laerrigan on 27 Nov 2007 07:30:54 |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 06:55:06
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Okay, a couple more thoughts... Yes, I know, Wizards are already powerful enough, I'm actually just fixing the two problems I see with them, I really think they are fine as far as an overall class goes, this is just an experiment.
Anyhoo, here's another thought
Standard spell progression, which leaves even levels open.
Level 1: Scribe Scroll, Bonus feat (as standard) or a familiar (but not both).
Level 2 gains a devotion as above.
Level 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 gains a bonus feat (metamagic, item creation, or reserve). That's only 1 feat more than usual, or two if they take the level 1 feat. I'm not too concerned about 2 feats, honestly (it's much fewer than a fighter, for instance).
Level 6, I love the arcane targetteer ability, and it could feasably be moved into a devotion slot, but I'm happy leaving it at level 6.
Level 14 the Intelligence boost makes me happy, and I'll leave it.
That lowers the number of feats by one, and gives wizards a chance to differentiate themselves, which makes me happy. Actually, I think this one is probably the most playable within a group, and doesn't look terribly broken in the advent of such fare as Warmages, Warlocks, and other 3.5 things.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 21:49:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
Wizards gain much power, but some of their abilities aren't always used by players (scribe scroll and summon familiar). While I think these are integral for some themes, others do not. I think that something must be done to fix this. One thought is that you may choose to have an Item Familiar (can't remember which issue of dragon), or no familiar and other benefits.
Scribe scroll isn't used because like the entire 3E item creation system, it wasn't worth it. You couldn't scribe scrolls and make a profit off them, so why scribe them. Maybe because having given spell all the time isn't handy?
Another problem is how most people Roleplay, they don't or do it badly and don't tell the DM what they do during their downtime, or think about what they would do during their downtime... I have and have on more then one occasion been happy that I scribed scrolls. :)
As for item familiars.. I think you meant staffs. This happens to be one of my favorite Dragon articles and I wish Pazio had done more awesome character options like this. Further I wish this had been reprinted in one of the regular wizards books (or the Dragon compendium!) With that said, it's Dragon 338, Staffs of the Magi you're looking for. ;)
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"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 01 Feb 2008 21:51:45 |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2008 : 02:30:31
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
...
As for item familiars.. I think you meant staffs. This happens to be one of my favorite Dragon articles and I wish Pazio had done more awesome character options like this. Further I wish this had been reprinted in one of the regular wizards books (or the Dragon compendium!) With that said, it's Dragon 338, Staffs of the Magi you're looking for. ;)
Many thanks Sir Urza, that makes my search slightly shorter (now to find Dragon 338...)
I agree about the item creation & profit not really working versus players not telling their DM what x character does in their downtime (oddly, I've gone at length with a ceratain druid of mine's downtime).
I really think a staff familiar works, which would always be a viable option in my campaigns. It follows some themes that fit for wizards always having "that blasted walkin' stick" with them. I also want to be able to flex out of that, if need be. Some wizards see any sort of familiar as a crutch, while others are so long-lived that it doesn't make sense to have a 1-9 year lifespan familiar when you live 400 years at least.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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3.5 Workshop: Wizards
