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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31799 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2007 :  01:01:20  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I've moved the keep down, to center the logo, and in the process came up with a new approach -

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/T-shirt14.jpg



Well met

Lookin' good, Markustay, very good!

Indeed.

The movement of "The Library of Forgotten Realms lore" title has made all the difference.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1076 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2007 :  13:50:50  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It seems as we all agree on this design so if I don’t here any complains Ill call my frind, and give him the design.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/T-shirt14.jpg

The T-shirt will be black

Vic

Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master

Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.

Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571

Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047

Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1

Edited by - Victor_ograygor on 10 Sep 2007 13:51:56
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore

Germany
1720 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2007 :  15:53:00  Show Profile Send Ergdusch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor

It seems as we all agree on this design so if I don’t here any complains Ill call my frind, and give him the design.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/T-shirt14.jpg

The T-shirt will be black

Vic




*sign* (remember to make sure that all copyright and TM issues are covered)

You might want to start a poll to see how many of the scriebes gathered here are actually willing to buy one. It might help in getting an overview on the demand before ordering the shirts. You might want to give infos such as the price....... just an idea.


"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht."

Edited by - Ergdusch on 10 Sep 2007 16:00:32
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1076 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2007 :  17:49:13  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That was what I thought of but didn’t write it in the previous text.

Ill be back when I here from him

Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master

Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.

Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571

Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047

Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1076 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2007 :  18:07:08  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Message back from friend translated:

Dear Steve
Are you sure you want the Tower / Building on the front like that? Shouldn’t it be in the middle?

I am waiting fore an answer before I start making a free example fore you so you can show your finds how it looks like.

Yours
Brian

Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master

Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.

Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571

Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047

Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2007 :  18:25:54  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A smaller pic centered would be fine too, I'm sure a full-shirt pic like that is harder to do.

I should mention that I left off the '©' symbol on the front that last time, but it should be included.

I'm glad I could help, Victor.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Delzounblood
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
578 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2007 :  07:58:30  Show Profile Send Delzounblood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For me thats the T shirt

as for orders What price are we looking at??

cos I'll need 2 one for me and one for my son Little Delz in 18 month old size! give him some growing room!

Delz
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2007 :  18:19:36  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll take a sexy tank top, please.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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sparhawk42
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2007 :  21:24:08  Show Profile  Visit sparhawk42's Homepage Send sparhawk42 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like the look of the t-shirt as well and I'd buy one although I think a slightly smaller pic on the front might look a little better.

quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

I'll take a sexy tank top, please.



Yeah my wife likes the look but she would like it in a tank top version as well.

You never fail until you stop trying.

Edited by - sparhawk42 on 11 Sep 2007 21:24:55
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
Admin

United Kingdom
5701 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2007 :  23:26:20  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage Send Alaundo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

I'll take a sexy tank top, please.



Well met

Well being as thou art first to mention this, Rino, 'tis only fair that ye model it for us to see just how sexy it will look

Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct


An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2007 :  23:31:29  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo

quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

I'll take a sexy tank top, please.



Well met

Well being as thou art first to mention this, Rino, 'tis only fair that ye model it for us to see just how sexy it will look



Not a problem! Make me a shirt, and I'll do it. Trust me, it'll be sexy.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)

Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 11 Sep 2007 23:31:59
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe

USA
252 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2007 :  05:25:35  Show Profile  Visit Mkhaiwati's Homepage Send Mkhaiwati a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really like what ya'll came up with.

How much for the one with the furry hamster on the back. It is a classic!

"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."

"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36996 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2007 :  06:44:27  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mkhaiwati

How much for the one with the furry hamster on the back. It is a classic!



I knew it would be!

Now, to go work on my Giant Space Hamsters of Realmspace submission, on the off-chance WotC does want it...

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
Admin

United Kingdom
5701 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2007 :  09:03:34  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage Send Alaundo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

Not a problem! Make me a shirt, and I'll do it. Trust me, it'll be sexy.



Well met

Now there's an offer I can't refuse. Victor, send me one over on the double.

Now, where did I put those scissors

Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct


An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1076 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2007 :  09:18:17  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Takae it easy old man I donnt want you to get a heart attack

When I get a exampel you will be the first one to get it.

You will not see me much hrere on Candlekeep the next 3 days Ill be painting my apartment.

I Will contackt you (Alaundo)

Vic

Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master

Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.

Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571

Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047

Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1

Edited by - Victor_ograygor on 12 Sep 2007 09:18:53
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2007 :  16:29:10  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo

quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

I'll take a sexy tank top, please.



Well met

Well being as thou art first to mention this, Rino, 'tis only fair that ye model it for us to see just how sexy it will look



Not a problem! Make me a shirt, and I'll do it. Trust me, it'll be sexy.



I'd write something witty and slightly flirtatious here - but I always seem to end up being just lewd when I try that - so how about I'll just write, I trust you, and we all pretend it was what I was aiming for?

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2007 :  18:17:47  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was thinking the same thing, so I kept my idea about sending her a white one... in the rain... to myself.

Oooops...

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Now, to go work on my Giant Space Hamsters of Realmspace submission, on the off-chance WotC does want it...

Hey Wooly, wasn't there some sort of weird 'parade' going on, with all kinds of folks walking around the inside of the Crystal Sphere? I vaguely remember that from somewhere...

Anyhow, I was just picturing THOUSANDS of Space Hamsters, all running around the inside of the sphere, and.. you know...

They just get the whole thing rolling.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2007 :  18:41:06  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
*grins* I'm a model, you know what I mean, and I do my little turn on the catwalk...

Seriously, I would like a tank top, and I would model it.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1076 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2007 :  03:50:26  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi all here at Candlekeep

I sorry about my little unexpected break here at Candlekeep but life sometimes don’t allow time fore D&D.

I am continuing my threads and the work on the T – shirt when I have some more time

I will be back when I have some more time

If you have any questions please contact me through this e mail address : drakul@dbmail.dk

Vic

Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master

Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.

Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571

Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047

Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1

Edited by - Victor_ograygor on 06 Nov 2007 03:52:19
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3567 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2007 :  16:29:57  Show Profile Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

*grins* I'm a model, you know what I mean, and I do my little turn on the catwalk...

Seriously, I would like a tank top, and I would model it.



We will be glad to offer serious and appropriate feedback on such a gracious offer Rino.

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
Admin

United Kingdom
5701 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2007 :  20:06:43  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage Send Alaundo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

*grins* I'm a model, you know what I mean, and I do my little turn on the catwalk...

Seriously, I would like a tank top, and I would model it.



We will be glad to offer serious and appropriate feedback on such a gracious offer Rino.



Get in line, Red Walker, get in line!

Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct


An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore

Germany
1720 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2007 :  23:20:07  Show Profile Send Ergdusch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor

Hi all here at Candlekeep

I sorry about my little unexpected break here at Candlekeep but life sometimes don’t allow time fore D&D.

I am continuing my threads and the work on the T – shirt when I have some more time

I will be back when I have some more time

If you have any questions please contact me through this e mail address : drakul@dbmail.dk

Vic



Actually I was asking myself what became of this projekt as I would really like to see it come to a fruitful outcome (right expression?). Anyway, there is nothing so serious here that cannot be put on hold for a while, as far as I am concerned. If you have anything that I could help out with, Vic, feel free to contect me via pm.

Greets, Ergdusch

"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht."
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2007 :  02:00:17  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
*grin* I'll model the shirt once I get it.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1076 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2007 :  11:41:22  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
- News about the Candelkeep t-shirt: I got the first example of the t-shirt yesterday and tried it, but decided that the quality and the print were too bad. I sanded it back and my friend promised to make it better.

yes Rinonalyrna Fathomlin and I want to see the picture too

Mod edit: Again with the "r"...

Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master

Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.

Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571

Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047

Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 21 Dec 2007 12:31:20
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe

341 Posts

Posted - 21 Dec 2007 :  20:34:17  Show Profile  Visit Mazrim_Taim's Homepage Send Mazrim_Taim a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I never get to catch the unedited Victor posts. The mods at the Keep are too fast for me.

On to the shirt, I'm fascinated by it. I probably won't be able to make it to GenCon as I live halfway across the country ... but I'd love a Candlekeep shirt all the same.

And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore

Germany
1720 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2008 :  13:36:54  Show Profile Send Ergdusch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As the Canldekeep shirt thing is getting more eargent I was wondering about different solutions to have one unique and look-alike shirt availble to everybody at the lowest price. So therefore I thought about the following:

Maybe it would be easier to just make two art-graphics (front & back) and make those available at the candlekeep site as a download. That way everyone could use those graphics to order his shirt at online or local printshops.

This would most likely lower the shipping price and would spread the responsibily to each individual rather than making one person doing lots of work.

However, I am not very firm in graphic desing and such things. So I would like to have a feedback from some of you that might know.

Best regards, Ergdusch

"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht."
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2008 :  18:16:36  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I still would love a tank top.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3567 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2008 :  19:33:07  Show Profile Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch

As the Canldekeep shirt thing is getting more eargent I was wondering about different solutions to have one unique and look-alike shirt availble to everybody at the lowest price. So therefore I thought about the following:

Maybe it would be easier to just make two art-graphics (front & back) and make those available at the candlekeep site as a download. That way everyone could use those graphics to order his shirt at online or local printshops.

This would most likely lower the shipping price and would spread the responsibily to each individual rather than making one person doing lots of work.

However, I am not very firm in graphic desing and such things. So I would like to have a feedback from some of you that might know.

Best regards, Ergdusch




I know when I have looked in the past, it costs more than double when you look into customizing each shirt.
Anywhere from $13 to $17 for a nice shirt with candlekeep logo on back. When I did a mock up of one with logo on back, with my avatar and forum name on the front chest, it went up to $41! I might do that(50/50 chance), but would hate to commit everyone to such a price.
A shared candlekeep logo would be great then everyone would not have to go along with 1 shirt . A good idea would be to agree to a logo and then 1 or 2 colors of shirts so they are easily spoted from afar!

P.S. The higher the resolution for the logo the better, I was told a miniumum of 150dpi to make a decent sized print.

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Bakra
Senior Scribe

628 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2008 :  18:49:09  Show Profile Send Bakra a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I asked around, my buddies who have dones this before say 300 DPI is the best, but 150 will work at original size. One color is the cheapest but if printing on black will need to add a flash more than likely, the flash being white. (Have no idea what they mean by this) Some sites to do this sort of thing are Café Press, each person can just order their own shirt and you can set the price mark up, also allows you to very options of what to print on. There is no charge to the main person uploading the site. Another site superior to Café Press is bluecotton.com; they are more expensive but they can print bigger art and have much more options when it comes to shirts; however, they mention the site requires one person to set the order then must be distributed on their own.

Not sure if that helps anyone.

I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1076 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2008 :  05:11:23  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
New news concerning the Candle keep T-shirt.

I want to make sure that what I am doing is 100 % legal, so can anybody fin out if I can make the t-shit with logo and text.

I am ready to give start the (production) of the t-shirts.

I want a final example of the T-shirt so no mistakes are made and Alaundo please send my your address.

I will start making X of each size

Small 15
Medium 20
Large 20
X-large 20
XX large 10

I will see you’re responses to this post in a week from now.

Vic

Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master

Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.

Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571

Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047

Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1
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