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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jun 2008 : 20:26:57
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Curious...
I thought those weird new locales were areas of Abeir that swapped places with Toril, but that would mean Abeir looked something like a Lavalamp world, with everything shifting and mutating all the time into new forms (wasn't there a section of Ravenloft like that?)*.
Now, if Abeir is a lot more stable then I am picturing it, that means that these 'bizarro' landscape features have come about because two different worlds are trying occupy the same space at the same time.
I'm not sure if I like that take better or worse then my first impression, plus several 'official types' have already stated that places have indeed been 'swapped out'. That would mean just the more fluid regions (like the Changing Lands themselves) are under this constant 'cosmic strain'.
*EDIT: Holy Catnip!!!
Something was nagging at the back of my mind after I made the above comment, and I had to check my RL material... I just realized that the natives of that region are called the Abber Nomads!!!
Coincidence?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Jun 2008 23:55:40 |
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 14:24:46
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Markustay, I don't know, but I kinda doubt that it's coincidence. If I remember, back near the end of Dragon's run as a real magazine was an article that was supposed to answer "all the mysteries of D&D". Of course, the article really didn't answer anything, but I got the impression that there was hints at certain settings starting to "gel" together. I know they said that this whole thing has been in the works for years. I wonder if the plan is to make Faerun a "dimensional dumping ground"?
Not releasing anything new for Ravenloft? That's ok, Strad's in Faerun now! Want to fight the Dragon Kings of Dark Sun? Well, keen, 'cause they're hear now too! Or at least there's portal somewhere over there that'll get you there.
I hope that's not the case, but it seems like a possibility. All this weirdness doesn't really have much rhyme or reason. |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 14:33:37
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quote:
Originally posted by ShepherdGunn
Markustay, I don't know, but I kinda doubt that it's coincidence. If I remember, back near the end of Dragon's run as a real magazine was an article that was supposed to answer "all the mysteries of D&D". Of course, the article really didn't answer anything, but I got the impression that there was hints at certain settings starting to "gel" together. I know they said that this whole thing has been in the works for years. I wonder if the plan is to make Faerun a "dimensional dumping ground"?
I don't think I buy into that. Haven't they said they will be releasing a new setting every year or. You may get Dark Sun and Ravenloft books yet |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2008 : 00:19:44
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Yes, but the various Realms of Ravenloft ALL came from elsewhere...
Which means The Nightmare Lands - a region of hellish, ever-changing landscapes and the home of the Abber Nomads, had to come from SOMEWHERE, and that name - it does not come from the Nighmare lands themselves - the nomads always called themselves that, from the time before the entered Ravenloft.
Also, the name "Shadow Elves" originally comes from the subterranean albino Elves of Mystara (AFAIK), but then was later applied to the Elves of the Shadowrift, who were called the "Shadowfey". The Shadar-Kai are also "Shadow Elves", and 3e's core version of them (living in the Plane of Shadow then). With the Shadar-kai living in 4e's Shadowfel now, I have a feeling that the 'land of Mists' will also be rolled into that new plane (along with the Shadow and Negative Planes).
So, given the Shadowfel's 'all-pervasive' nature in 4e (the perfect generic adventure setting), it stands to reason that RL is in fact 'closer' to FR then it used to be, and even with the old lore their were already numerous connections.
I had always thought that the Abber Nomads were originally displaced tribesmen from GH's Rovers of the Barrens, or the Wolf or Tiger nomads. However, Shaarans would work just as well, and with that name, they could very well be Abeir's 'Bizarro' version of the Shaaran tribesmen.
Just some pure conjecture I'm throwing out there, but I'm starting to see more and more of this 'homogenized' lore being spread through 4e. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Jun 2008 00:21:27 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2008 : 01:42:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Which means The Nightmare Lands - a region of hellish, ever-changing landscapes and the home of the Abber Nomads, had to come from SOMEWHERE, and that name - it does not come from the Nighmare lands themselves - the nomads always called themselves that, from the time before the entered Ravenloft.
Actually, as I recall, the Abber nomads are called such because they were initially based on the concept of the Native American peoples and the Australian Aboriginals. Some aspects of their Dreamwalking are very similar to the Aboriginal concept of the Dreamtime as well.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 07:50:13
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I'm kinda hoping that they come out with some Dark Sun books. The concern I have about that is the stated "5 Year Plan" where they want to release a new version of D&D every five years. (The article that they posted about this said that the 3.5 update actually set that plan back.)
I hope that's enough time for them to get out the books that would make this system more playable. |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 08:26:52
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Heh. I was also going to bring up the changes wrought by the "One More Day"/"Brand New Day" story-arcs for SPIDER-MAN. But that's likely to trigger an entire series of off-topic posts. So we'll leave it at that. 
DAMN YOU for mentioning that. *sniffles and cries in a corner about 2007* |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 17:42:58
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Going by what I've heard, I am SO glad I stopped reading comics toward the end of the 90's.
quote:
Originally posted by ShepherdGunn
I hope that's enough time for them to get out the books that would make this system more playable.
Enough time for them to rush out five possible settings and complete the rules before they release 5e?
You do realize they worked on 4e for almost three years before it was released, which means two years from now they would have to start committing most of their resources to their even newer edition, if they are to keep to their esteblished timetable.
So... don't expect anything too creative after 2010 - they'll be saving that for 5e, which will have to be underway by then. We may see some 5e adaptions to the 4e ruleset, such as The Book of Nine Swords was for 3e, but thats about it.
In other words, if you TRULY love a setting, such as Dark Sun, then you should be hoping they will leave it the hell alone and NOT update it.
Or do you want to see something akin to the Spellplague in Athas as well?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Jun 2008 17:46:36 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 18:54:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Or do you want to see something akin to the Spellplague in Athas as well?
I can see it now. They destroy the entire concept of the world being a Desert and make lush greenlands throughout, turning it into a standard regular world setting so they can sell the setting to non-Dark Sun fans as well... |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2008 : 20:58:23
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Actually, I was thinking that they would tie 'defiler' magic to the Shadowfel....
I think I just threw-up a little... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2008 : 02:40:01
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-All so WotC can sell their Core Rule Books. 
-REMEMBER: IT'S ONE CORE TO RULE THEM ALL.
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Arkhaedun
Senior Scribe
869 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2008 : 04:58:15
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| All right everyone, we are drifting far afield from discussing the 4th Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide. Let's get back on topic and please, lets discuss the FRCS, what is known about it, and what you would and wouldn't like in it. |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2008 : 16:34:03
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quote:
Originally posted by ShepherdGunn
I'm kinda hoping that they come out with some Dark Sun books. The concern I have about that is the stated "5 Year Plan" where they want to release a new version of D&D every five years.
What the heck?
Did WoTC just put control of the entire D&D game into the hands of Marketing? Sure sounds like it. |
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Arkhaedun
Senior Scribe
869 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2008 : 17:02:26
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| I'm not joking here. If this doesn't get back on topic, the topic will have to be locked. Considering what is being discussed in this topic, when it isn't drifting, that would be a shame. |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2008 : 20:56:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
Are the contents, the summary of the FRCG available ?
-Dont know. I will sit down with it a the local Barnes and Noble when it is released, and check it out. I just hope they dont cut out alot of what Ed wrote for it. Yet that would make some great Dragon articles for their site. I figure around release time we will get a steady dose of the 4E Realms on the wizards site. I know BRJ said in September that he was going to have an article up on the the wizards site.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2008 : 23:07:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-Dont know. I will sit down with it a the local Barnes and Noble when it is released, and check it out. I just hope they dont cut out alot of what Ed wrote for it. Yet that would make some great Dragon articles for their site. I figure around release time we will get a steady dose of the 4E Realms on the wizards site. I know BRJ said in September that he was going to have an article up on the the wizards site.
Well, considering that a major part of what Ed was writing about was Anchorome, and Anchorme is now cut fom the FRCG, I very much doubt a lot of what Ed wrote will make it into that Tome.
In all honesty, they hired him to write the 50,000 words when people started screaming to the high heavens all over the WotC site - it was done to placate the fanbase, nothing more. They originally had NO intention of allowing him to work on the book, and the announcement of his contribution came well after the Gencon announcment. They didn't actually want it, and they certainly didn't promise to include it - all they said was that Ed was contracted to write it.
Now if we all want to see the part that was the only thing making many of us consider buying it, we have to sign-up for their buggy DDi, which isn't even near completion, and probably never will be.
I like Ed's lore a lot, don't get me wrong, but I don't give in to terrorist demands, and I'm sure as hell not going to pay $120 a year to read it. It feels more like a "Mafia shake-down" then any sort of responsible business practice.
I was planning on buying the FRCG just because of Ed's contributions, and now I'm not, because the rest isn't worth reading (as far as I'm concerned).
Let the 4e newbs enjoy the 4gotten Realms, I already have the Realms I like. This new incarnation is NOT the Realms I fell in love with.
I'm skating the topic-line right now with this post, so I want to steer it a little bit more on track. We were promised an article about the gods a couple of months ago (#4 in the 'Countdown' series), but that plan was scrapped, and now we are being told no new info until Aug. I'm really getting tired of all the empty promises.
We might as well lock this thread until then.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 00:35:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
In all honesty, they hired him to write the 50,000 words when people started screaming to the high heavens all over the WotC site - it was done to placate the fanbase, nothing more. They originally had NO intention of allowing him to work on the book, and the announcement of his contribution came well after the Gencon announcment. They didn't actually want it, and they certainly didn't promise to include it - all they said was that Ed was contracted to write it.
Well, we don't actually know that for a fact, and it's probably best to refrain from ascribing motives to the people at WotC. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 01:04:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, considering that a major part of what Ed was writing about was Anchorome, and Anchorme is now cut fom the FRCG, I very much doubt a lot of what Ed wrote will make it into that Tome.
Are you serious? they're now cutting the Anchorome/Ed stuff? where did you hear that? |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 01:19:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, considering that a major part of what Ed was writing about was Anchorome, and Anchorme is now cut fom the FRCG, I very much doubt a lot of what Ed wrote will make it into that Tome.
Are you serious? they're now cutting the Anchorome/Ed stuff? where did you hear that?
assuming for a moment that is true, we all know it will show up somewhere in the not too distant future |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36989 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 03:14:13
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, considering that a major part of what Ed was writing about was Anchorome, and Anchorme is now cut fom the FRCG, I very much doubt a lot of what Ed wrote will make it into that Tome.
Are you serious? they're now cutting the Anchorome/Ed stuff? where did you hear that?
assuming for a moment that is true, we all know it will show up somewhere in the not too distant future
Yeah, just like the Phlan web enhancement we were promised years ago. Oh, wait...  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 23 Jun 2008 03:14:37 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 03:48:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, considering that a major part of what Ed was writing about was Anchorome, and Anchorme is now cut fom the FRCG, I very much doubt a lot of what Ed wrote will make it into that Tome.
Are you serious? they're now cutting the Anchorome/Ed stuff? where did you hear that?
-IIRC it was the Richard Baker Thread at WotC. He is like the only FR Designer that post on that thread. Well also BRJ, and a few others.
EDIT#1 http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15847578&postcount=3887
EDIT#2 http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15847578&postcount=3887
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 23 Jun 2008 05:24:19 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 06:03:21
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| Ed's 4E work on Anchorome is not being cut as it was never written. What *is* included in the FRCG is an entirely new continent written by Ed to replace Maztica. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 06:05:25
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-Kewl! 
18DELTA |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 14:47:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Ed's 4E work on Anchorome is not being cut as it was never written. What *is* included in the FRCG is an entirely new continent written by Ed to replace Maztica.
ahh. So Ed is not even writing stuff based on his Realms really |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 15:22:07
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| Why not? If he is writing, I think that he is the creator! |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36989 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 15:56:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
Why not? If he is writing, I think that he is the creator!
Yeah, but Ed's published stuff focused almost entirely on the Heartlands. The New World-esque version of Maztica was not his doing. And now he's doing a replacement for it, which is still not the Heartlands he focused on.
Hopefully, the new lore will be original, unpublished Ed material. I'd far rather see what Ed originally intended for this area, rather than the "fill in this blank area, and make sure you include all this kewl stuff!" material that I expect to see. No disrespect to Ed, of course, but the days of traffic cops that truly understand the setting, like Jeff Grubb, are long gone. If we still had people like that, I'd be excited just to see anything by Ed. I hate the fact that he's now trying to smooth over other people's messes. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2008 : 18:56:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Ed's 4E work on Anchorome is not being cut as it was never written. What *is* included in the FRCG is an entirely new continent written by Ed to replace Maztica.
Well, thats cool, I guess.
But I really wanted Anchorome... we already had a Maztica...
That means anyone staying with 3eFR will find NOTHING useful in the book. I was only going to buy it to use Ed's Anchorome in my 3e Realms.
Too bad. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jun 2008 21:23:51 |
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Topic |
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The New FRCS
