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Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe

Saw this on ENWorld, Markus. Might not be high-res enough for your purposes, but just in case...

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Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
Not exactly what you're talking about, I don't think, but this reviewer does something close.

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Originally posted by Markustay

Just looking over this mess, wondering wheere to start...

Var the Drowned?

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Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

I noticed that he was comparing page counts on this review, but was he also comparing the font size of the books?

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Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

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Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

I noticed that he was comparing page counts on this review, but was he also comparing the font size of the books?

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That question popped into my mind, as well. However, he qualified his statement in the comment section, saying that he considers the 4E FRCG superior in terms of giving him stuff (like plot hooks) that he can use right away.

I agree with you that simply going by page count is a poor way to evaluate the amount of information in each book, though.

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Pagecount versus the amount of info presented: Type size and layout play a role, though — this book uses a larger typeface and more whitespace than the 3rd Edition FRCS. That makes it easier to read (I found the 3e core book’s type to be slightly too small), but also means there’s less information on any given page. Word for word, I think the 3e version covers more ground in fewer pages; if it had been produced with the same type and layout as the 4e FRCG, I think the 3e FRCS would actually have more pages of setting material.

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Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

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Originally posted by Markustay

Just looking over this mess, wondering wheere to start...

Var the Drowned?

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I'm looking over the map too, and a lot of places are "drowned", it seems.

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Originally posted by Na-Gang . . . if the Sea of Fallen Stars has been somewhat drained and therefore the water levels have FALLEN, how come they've RISEN enough to drown Laothkund in what was the Wizard's Reach, and Messemprar in what used to be Mulhorand?

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Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

Another thing--we've been told that the Sea of Fallen Stars is much smaller than it used to be (having been drained) and that now a lot of formerly coastal cities are landlocked. My question is, which ones? I looked at the map, and cities that were coastal in 3E are still coastal.

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Originally posted by Na-Gang

Off the top of my head - I remember reading that Alaghon in Turmish is now no longer a coastal city.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Uh, folks, he did mention font size and such.

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Pagecount versus the amount of info presented: Type size and layout play a role, though — this book uses a larger typeface and more whitespace than the 3rd Edition FRCS. That makes it easier to read (I found the 3e core book’s type to be slightly too small), but also means there’s less information on any given page. Word for word, I think the 3e version covers more ground in fewer pages; if it had been produced with the same type and layout as the 4e FRCG, I think the 3e FRCS would actually have more pages of setting material.

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Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin

Another thing--we've been told that the Sea of Fallen Stars is much smaller than it used to be (having been drained) and that now a lot of formerly coastal cities are landlocked. My question is, which ones? I looked at the map, and cities that were coastal in 3E are still coastal.

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Originally posted by Brian R. James
Ilipur and Pros along the southern coast of the Dragonmere are now landlocked as well. Along with Alaghon, I'd say the shallow southern coastline suffered the most from the lowering of the Inner Sea.

Then again, I remember reading that Impiltur was struck hard too. I don't have the book in front of me atm to check.

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Rating: 3 out of 5 stars (from Shane O'Connor)

Review
The Forgotten Realms have long since risen to become the campaign world that most people think of when they talk about Dungeons & Dragons. Having long since supplanted Greyhawk, and still more familiar than Eberron, the Realms are the most familiar, and successful, of the established D&D campaigns. This book, the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, serves to bring the setting up to the Fourth Edition of the game.

Those familiar with the setting from its previous incarnations will immediately notice that this book is referred to as a campaign “guide” rather than a campaign “setting.” While that’s a minor change, I feel that it nicely encapsulates the feeling that this book gives off – this is more like a gazetteer that gives you an overview of the setting, rather than a whole-hearted setting for a game world. Now, in all honesty, that’s somewhat inevitable, being that the book is only three hundred pages long and has a huge amount of ground to cover, but it still comes off as somewhat unsatisfying, especially given that this is one of only three FR-specific books that WotC is making in 4E (and of the other two, one is an adventure).

Added to this is the fact that the book needs to simultaneously introduce the world to new players, while at the same time covering the one hundred year time-skip made since the previous edition for the established players. The favor is clearly given towards the former, as there are a lot of mysteries and details about what’s changed that aren’t touched on here. Again, I can appreciate that the book simply had too much to do – it would have felt short at twice the length – but it still feels frustrating. The Realms are known for the rich amount of detail they give us on such a wide variety of topics that being given so little on those topics here is almost maddening. Tell us more than just two or three paragraphs on Elminster’s current status; how was Cyric able to get the drop on Mystra and kill her? There’s so much more than what’s given here.

The book still tries, of course. Quite literally half of it is spent covering the various nations and lands of the world, giving them brief descriptions (from one to six pages) and trying its best to describe both the history, current sketch, and more. And of course, there are (too small) sections devoted to things such as the various planes of existence, the gods, eminent organizations, and more. In fact, the book is quite a bit more fluff than crunch, as it only gives a few new monsters, some basic overviews of magical features (such as the spellplague), and an entire chapter on a city called Loudwater – another nod to new players, as its clearly meant to be a starting location.

Overall, I wanted to like the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide more than I did. Ultimately, though, the book is like a single employee manning the Starbucks during the noon rush – it just had too much on its plate to do. Clearly, it’s trying to pack an entire product line’s worth of information and playability between its covers, and its just not up to the task. Ultimately, everything is covered only sparsely, and what’s left out is unlikely to be seen again until the next edition (notwithstanding updates given out as part of WotC’s DDI). In fact, were it not for the fact that the timeline has advanced so drastically and changed so much, the book likely wouldn’t be very necessary to running a 4E Forgotten Realms game at all.

The Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide is ultimately very honest in what it is – a guide and not a setting – and that’s the saddest part about the book.

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Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight

Thanks for this quote Wooly. I feel for those who bought that book...

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight

Thanks for this quote Wooly. I feel for those who bought that book...

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Well, I got it, but I got it on the cheap, from eBay.

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Originally posted by Markustay

C'mon... its not THAT bad.

Granted, I hate 95% of the changes, but for what it is - an introduction to the Realms for new 4e players - it is adequate.

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Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

I know that we don't see sales numbers, but I have it from a source that the FRCG did pretty well. But the real interesting thing is the reviews. If you go to Amazon and look up the Campaign guide, out of 61 people, the book gets 2˝ stars (over a third of the people gave it only 1 star), while the 3E FRCS receives 4˝ stars from 70 people (with over 50 people giving it 5 stars).

I'm not saying that Amazon reviews are by any means the best method for determining a book's value, but it is one method.

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Originally posted by Markustay

I paid $15 (I think) for the pdf of the Golarion Gazeteer, and it was a great way for me to familiarize myself with that world.

Now, takeing that into perspective, the FRCG should be able to familiarize 4e players with the Realms, if they new NOTHING about it before.

So, its just an over-priced Gazeteer, IMHO, but it does what it is supposed to.

We have to remember, the game isn't the same as what it was, and although this book would never cut it to run a 3e game, it works for the 4e mindset.

We have to stop expecting it to be for us - it's not, and those days are now long gone. The 'less-is-more' mentality has taken over the RPG industry (primarily thanks to computer games), and the book does indeed accomplish exactly what it is supposed to.

Comparing it to the FRCG is like apples and oranges.

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Originally posted by Brian R. James

Hours since the "Secrets of the Forgotten Realms" seminar and no spoilers yet eh? Ok I'll go first. The 4E Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting will be set in the Year of Blue Fire, 1385 DR (or about 10 years after the conclusion of most 3.5 Realms supplements).

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Originally posted by MerrikCale

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Originally posted by Brian R. James

Hours since the "Secrets of the Forgotten Realms" seminar and no spoilers yet eh? Ok I'll go first. The 4E Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting will be set in the Year of Blue Fire, 1385 DR (or about 10 years after the conclusion of most 3.5 Realms supplements).

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By the way, Brian, I believe you were incorrect on this one

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Originally posted by MerrikCale

No its not. Its 2 campaign settings one is decent and one is awful. I don't know why you would think its not comparable. One is fairly well written, the other is not.

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Originally posted by Markustay
[brAnd yes, I do understand that this is a setting and we aren't discussing rules, but it amounts to the same thing. You can't read a Volkswagon Owner's Manual and expect to find out how to change the wiper fluid in your Pontiac.

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