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The Grumpy Celt
Acolyte
46 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 18:14:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
[quote]Originally posted by Alisttair
It's all supposed to be part of what happened to the world as a result of the Spellplague, so it's not a retcon.
A, by now, old complaint….
In Podcast No. 22 three designers talk about the 4E Realms and a need to make it more accessible to new players. 3E Realms did have a considerable amount of back story, which could be a burden. However, simply advancing the time line a century would have been an effective way to deal with the issue. Draining the Inner Sea, destroying Mulhorandi, Unther and Halruaa, the Spellplague and similar changes feels random and unnecessary.
One of them comments on changing Thay to make it more like the Plateau of Ling, to get rid of cities, roads and so forth. My interpretation of Thay was always Communist Russia or Nazi Germany rather than Plateau of Ling. That way it could have cities, roads and so forth and still be an unpleasant place, so people not from there did not like it.
These days, Grayhawk appeals to me.
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"It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye."
-Vecna |
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danbuter
Seeker
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2008 : 02:32:38
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I always viewed Thay as a very corrupt, magically empowered Byzantine Empire.
And they drained the Inner Sea?! |
Nothing beats the gray box!
Dan |
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questing gm
Master of Realmslore
Malaysia
1745 Posts |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2008 : 16:39:59
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quote:
Originally posted by questing gm
If you fellow scribes want to keep track about the FRCG more than the Olympics, there's someone who is compiling the info posted over from Gleemax at ENWorld.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?p=4424966#post4424966
Just reading the bits about deities has filled me with fear and trembling.    |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2008 : 18:46:29
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quote:
Originally posted by questing gm
If you fellow scribes want to keep track about the FRCG more than the Olympics, there's someone who is compiling the info posted over from Gleemax at ENWorld.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?p=4424966#post4424966
Saw that already, but thank you for the link.
Not sure what you are getting at with the Olympics, but I see nothing wrong with being more interested in a different topic. Not being the biggest sports buff, I'm not that inclined to watch the Olympics (or TV in general, actually) in the best circumstances, and I have personal reasons for not desiring to watch the games going on right now (and I'm definitely not going to discuss that here). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 14 Aug 2008 18:46:55 |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2008 : 06:22:00
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| I haven't appreciated the excerpts before, but reading the list of changes makes my heart sink. It's not a new edition. It's crude graphitti. |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2008 : 06:38:36
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So I come back from my sabbatical with my 4edFRCS in hand only to find out everyone is getting their information from 2nd and 3rd hand sources?
Definately some changes as we all know. I'm just getting into it and have no opinion on it yet. |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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Sonny
Acolyte
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2008 : 12:10:29
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
So I come back from my sabbatical with my 4edFRCS in hand only to find out everyone is getting their information from 2nd and 3rd hand sources?
Definately some changes as we all know. I'm just getting into it and have no opinion on it yet.
Can you tell me what happened to Phlan and the Moonsea region? I would greatly appreciate it. Whenever you have time to do it of course.  |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2008 : 14:24:58
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
I haven't appreciated the excerpts before, but reading the list of changes makes my heart sink. It's not a new edition. It's crude graphitti.
As I said before, its a re-do of the Realms done by people who don't get the Realms |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2008 : 14:41:58
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| Judging by the new prominence of Baldur's Gate, they sure appreciated the computer game. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2008 : 14:59:35
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
Judging by the new prominence of Baldur's Gate, they sure appreciated the computer game.
It's a product tie-in. By focusing on Baldur's Gate, they can hope to catch more people that only played the computer games. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2008 : 16:55:11
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quote:
Can you tell me what happened to Phlan and the Moonsea region? I would greatly appreciate it. Whenever you have time to do it of course.
I will check back in later and see what I can find as they are not specifically in the index to do a quick rundown. |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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Sonny
Acolyte
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2008 : 19:28:17
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
quote:
Can you tell me what happened to Phlan and the Moonsea region? I would greatly appreciate it. Whenever you have time to do it of course.
I will check back in later and see what I can find as they are not specifically in the index to do a quick rundown.
Thank you very much! I really do appreciate you taking the time to help me out! |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2008 : 10:43:38
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by questing gm
If you fellow scribes want to keep track about the FRCG more than the Olympics, there's someone who is compiling the info posted over from Gleemax at ENWorld.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?p=4424966#post4424966
Just reading the bits about deities has filled me with fear and trembling.
Mask dead? Hoar serving Bane? Bane absorbing the goblin pantheon? I would scream, but I'm at a friend's house currently, so that wouldn't be prudent. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2008 : 11:36:34
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Mask dead? Hoar serving Bane? Bane absorbing the goblin pantheon? I would scream, but I'm at a friend's house currently, so that wouldn't be prudent.
You see, it is a bit like moving from Win98 on to WinXP, including a new HDD. You still know how the old stuff worked and how it looked, but to get real fun out of the new generation of PCs and games, you can "only" use the new PC. Sort of "take it or leave it" stuff.
Yes, a bit simplified , but ... well. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gćđ a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerűn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2008 : 23:32:06
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by questing gm
If you fellow scribes want to keep track about the FRCG more than the Olympics, there's someone who is compiling the info posted over from Gleemax at ENWorld.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?p=4424966#post4424966
Just reading the bits about deities has filled me with fear and trembling.
Mask dead? Hoar serving Bane? Bane absorbing the goblin pantheon? I would scream, but I'm at a friend's house currently, so that wouldn't be prudent.
That's not all -- they seem to have made Elminster into a half-senile old man who spends all his time camped out on Storm Silverhand's abandoned farm, grumbling about the "good old days".
I didn't think I'd be saying this, but what they did to El... I'd rather they'd given him a heroic death.
And the Seven Sisters are absolutely nowhere to be seen. |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 10:15:15
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I've got my copy now, and I'm glad I have.
The chapter on deities has so little information that I was left confused about what had gone on and who was now in charge of which portfolio and what Exarchs were meant to do and so on. I thought the idea was to get rid of overlapping portfolios (spheres) but both Sune and Sheela Peryroyl are listed as having power over Beauty.
I'm also disappointed at the lack of a more educational history. Just a paragraph would've been nice about what's happened in the last 100 years, but I'm hoping that sort of thing is in the History sections of each region.
I find it easier to read and find things than the 3E FRCS but I (after an admittedly brief look) I couldn't find a geographical location for Returned Abeir at all which seems odd. I mean I understand from chatter on here that it's replaced Maztica but does it say that anywhere in the book?
On the whole I'd say it's very nice but lacks detail in everything, which I guess is what WOTC wanted from it. |
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Colman
Acolyte
Ireland
33 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 15:49:54
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My paper copy just arrived, and it's fine - there's a few things I'll have to change (Neverwinter, Luskan, Waterdeep Guard and Watch merging, Waterdeep having no navy (!?!?!?), add back in double-super-top-secret Harpers) - but overall, it's fine in the context of pre-existing lore if you're not religiously attached to the 3e realms. I'm still pissed about the ToT and disliked a lot of stuff they did in 2e/3e (mostly for commercial reasons or they thought it was cool), so I'm not coming from the same point of view of lots of people here. 4e Realms feels more like the original Realms to me. (And I really don't care about the God Soap Opera)
On the other hand: the maps! They're grossly inaccurate and seem to fail to incorporate changes that are in the text. I'm not even talking about the design: Candlekeep is twenty miles inland, Harrowdale Town hasn't been renamed to New Velar on the map, other sloppy errors. I'm hoping MarkusTay or someone will take mercy on us and redo the entire map. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 17:16:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Colman
My paper copy just arrived, and it's fine - there's a few things I'll have to change (Neverwinter, Luskan, Waterdeep Guard and Watch merging, Waterdeep having no navy (!?!?!?), add back in double-super-top-secret Harpers) - but overall, it's fine in the context of pre-existing lore if you're not religiously attached to the 3e realms. I'm still pissed about the ToT and disliked a lot of stuff they did in 2e/3e (mostly for commercial reasons or they thought it was cool), so I'm not coming from the same point of view of lots of people here. 4e Realms feels more like the original Realms to me. (And I really don't care about the God Soap Opera)
On the other hand: the maps! They're grossly inaccurate and seem to fail to incorporate changes that are in the text. I'm not even talking about the design: Candlekeep is twenty miles inland, Harrowdale Town hasn't been renamed to New Velar on the map, other sloppy errors. I'm hoping MarkusTay or someone will take mercy on us and redo the entire map.
I have seen others say that it feels more like the earlier Realms. So I am curious, as I prefer the original Realms myself, if it feels like the old Realms, is there any reason to not just stay with them? I am not saying that this is what anyone should do (and I have no plan of moving forward myself), I am just wondering if there are things you see as an improvement over the 1ed. version and in that case, what are they? |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 17:48:54
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quote:
I have seen others say that it feels more like the earlier Realms...
That's an interesting point (and follow up question). The Realms I'm most familiar with was/were that laid out in the grey box and in the FR series of source books in early 2nd edition days. I pretty much skipped, oh, 1993 or so to 2008 in terms of the Realms and D&D in general, but I've lately picked up a lot of the 3E FR stuff at Half-Price. And yeah, the design, the amount of "crunch" (both in terms of quantity and "complexity" if I may use that term in a non-qualitative way), and the overall feelings of wide open strangeness, danger, and potential that I get from the new material reminds me more of the early stuff that the 3E stuff. |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 18:11:02
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As to Jorkens point - if you are using the 4e rules, then you should, admittedly, use the new Realms. Converting the 1e/2e Campaign Guides would be a huge chore, so for new players, the new guide is an obvious choice. Those people can't miss what they never new about.
If you are using the 3e Realms, then I see the opposite as the logical choice - why use the 4e rules when its just easier sticking with the 3e ones? The reverse becomes true, and converting all the 1e/2e/3e stuff becomes a nightmare.
I'd say use the edition of FR that goes with the rules edition you are planning on using, plain and simple.
quote:
Originally posted by Colman
I'm hoping MarkusTay or someone will take mercy on us and redo the entire map.
If you guys only new how many PMs I've been getting on several sites... 
Its not my place to fix 4e, but I plan on helping out out of love for the setting. As soon as I get my hands on the 4e Map, expect regional maps from me using the old terrain textures at a rate of about one a week.
I'm heavily into 'map mode' right now, trying to finish up all the 1e/2e/3e amalgams that I never got around to. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Aug 2008 18:11:54 |
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Colman
Acolyte
Ireland
33 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 19:07:27
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| Well, I'd rather use 4e as a system, and there is a lot of cool stuff in between that's usable too. So I may as well use the new realms - I skipped 1995 or so until now as well, and I too have just bought a whole pile of 1e, 2e and 3e stuff (though less of the 3e - it's expensive). |
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Colman
Acolyte
Ireland
33 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 19:08:24
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| Markus: nominate a favourite charity and you can raise some money for them. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 20:01:26
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Considering I'm unemployed, I AM a friggin' charity case. 
But seriously, if people want to know my prefernces, then it would be to the Make a Wish Foundation.
Thats one of the reasons I cancelled going to Gencon this year, but thats another story.
On Topic:
I'm begging for them to put up the campaign map on the WotC site, like they did with the last edition. Please, anyone who wants to do me any kind of favor, post in the "Ask the Designers" thread that you would like to see this as well. As of right now, I may have to purchase the FRCG just to get a map I would rather not even look at. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Aug 2008 07:02:56 |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2008 : 23:32:36
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| Saw this on ENWorld, Markus. Might not be high-res enough for your purposes, but just in case... |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 00:07:16
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Hello, all.
Re. the fate of Elminster as reported in the FRCS:
Ed says there's a great deal of difference between what most folk think Elminster is up to (i.e. what's in the FRCS) and what's really happened/happening to him (for that, you'll have to wait for Ed's first post-Knights of Myth Drannor novel).
Suffice it to say: he's not quite the "put out to pasture" old wreck you might think he's been presented as. 
love,
THO |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 00:13:08
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hello, all.
Re. the fate of Elminster as reported in the FRCS:
Ed says there's a great deal of difference between what most folk think Elminster is up to (i.e. what's in the FRCS) and what's really happened/happening to him (for that, you'll have to wait for Ed's first post-Knights of Myth Drannor novel).
Suffice it to say: he's not quite the "put out to pasture" old wreck you might think he's been presented as.
love,
THO
-That is awesome.
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3254 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 04:16:47
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hello, all.
Re. the fate of Elminster as reported in the FRCS:
Ed says there's a great deal of difference between what most folk think Elminster is up to (i.e. what's in the FRCS) and what's really happened/happening to him (for that, you'll have to wait for Ed's first post-Knights of Myth Drannor novel).
Suffice it to say: he's not quite the "put out to pasture" old wreck you might think he's been presented as.
love,
THO
I think I might cry tears of joy now.
And I think I hear wailing coming from the 4E Fanboyz on the WotC boys. I seem to recall posts that they thought El should have been killed outright... |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 04:30:46
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-I like the 4E Realms. I never wanted EL Dead.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Topic |
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The New FRCS
