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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 19:30:14
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The following is apparently not a joke.quote:
Here’s a highly probable conversation lifted from the future, one year from today, as two players who’ve just met at a convention discuss their PC choices for their upcoming D&D game.
“I’m playing a 3rd-level human fighter named Graelar.”
“Cool. Is he weapon and shield or two-hander?”
“He’s sword and board, man.”
“Longsword?”
“Yeah. I thought about going high Con and using a hammer, but I wanted to start with the chance to make a couple of attacks, so I’m using rain of blows as my good weapon attack, and I went with high Wis so that I can switch to the better oppy powers later.”
“My elf fighter uses a spear. I like the speed and the option to go past AC. But you’ve got the fighter covered. I’ll play a halfling rogue.”
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36874 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 19:35:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
The following is apparently not a joke.quote:
Here’s a highly probable conversation lifted from the future, one year from today, as two players who’ve just met at a convention discuss their PC choices for their upcoming D&D game.
“I’m playing a 3rd-level human fighter named Graelar.”
“Cool. Is he weapon and shield or two-hander?”
“He’s sword and board, man.”
“Longsword?”
“Yeah. I thought about going high Con and using a hammer, but I wanted to start with the chance to make a couple of attacks, so I’m using rain of blows as my good weapon attack, and I went with high Wis so that I can switch to the better oppy powers later.”
“My elf fighter uses a spear. I like the speed and the option to go past AC. But you’ve got the fighter covered. I’ll play a halfling rogue.”
Are we discussing World of Warcraft or D&D?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 19:45:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
The following is apparently not a joke.quote:
Here’s a highly probable conversation lifted from the future, one year from today, as two players who’ve just met at a convention discuss their PC choices for their upcoming D&D game.
“I’m playing a 3rd-level human fighter named Graelar.”
“Cool. Is he weapon and shield or two-hander?”
“He’s sword and board, man.”
“Longsword?”
“Yeah. I thought about going high Con and using a hammer, but I wanted to start with the chance to make a couple of attacks, so I’m using rain of blows as my good weapon attack, and I went with high Wis so that I can switch to the better oppy powers later.”
“My elf fighter uses a spear. I like the speed and the option to go past AC. But you’ve got the fighter covered. I’ll play a halfling rogue.”
Are we discussing World of Warcraft or D&D?
how is that supposed to make combat faster/similiar? |
News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document
D20 Modern System Reference Document
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 20:05:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
The following is apparently not a joke.quote:
Here’s a highly probable conversation lifted from the future, one year from today, as two players who’ve just met at a convention discuss their PC choices for their upcoming D&D game.
“I’m playing a 3rd-level human fighter named Graelar.”
“Cool. Is he weapon and shield or two-hander?”
“He’s sword and board, man.”
“Longsword?”
“Yeah. I thought about going high Con and using a hammer, but I wanted to start with the chance to make a couple of attacks, so I’m using rain of blows as my good weapon attack, and I went with high Wis so that I can switch to the better oppy powers later.”
“My elf fighter uses a spear. I like the speed and the option to go past AC. But you’ve got the fighter covered. I’ll play a halfling rogue.”
I see no problem about that and what D&D is supposed to be*. It's only offering more usable figthing styles.
Nothing prevent you to add on top of it any amount of "roleplay" you want.
IMHO, from what we already know, D&D 4E seems to be a better D&D than 3.5 was. However, it may not be a better RPG for the Forgotten Realms setting to shine the way many scribes here seems to like it.
*If you want a game that is about making difficult morale dilemna, don't look for D&D 4E, look at Indie RPGs. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 17 Aug 2007 20:26:19 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 20:18:42
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| Lucky for us Ed Greenwood didn't follow that advice. |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 20:19:47
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| ... well ... off the bat i would say that it's nice that they do something with the weapons so they aren't that much dry numbers with no big diffence other than if it is a d6 or d8 :p ... off cause there's kinda damage (b,s and p) but thats rarely (read never) an issue unless they got damage reduction ageinst that kinda damage |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 20:20:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Lucky for us Ed Greenwood didn't follow that advice.
Could you elaborate on this ? |
Edited by - Skeptic on 17 Aug 2007 20:26:55 |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 20:29:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Sian
... well ... off the bat i would say that it's nice that they do something with the weapons so they aren't that much dry numbers with no big diffence other than if it is a d6 or d8 :p ... off cause there's kinda damage (b,s and p) but thats rarely (read never) an issue unless they got damage reduction ageinst that kinda damage
1E did have rules for making weapons different. Things like Speed Factor, just very few DMs used them. |
News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document
D20 Modern System Reference Document
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 20:30:20
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| The Realms has benefited from its association with D&D, and D&D has benefited from Ed and other creative people who don't confuse characters with boardgame playing pieces and treat players as idiots, such as almost everyone who's written for it. Human concerns aren't marginal. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 20:46:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
The Realms has benefited from its association with D&D, and D&D has benefited from Ed.
Ok I can buy that.
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
and other creative people who don't confuse characters with boardgame playing pieces
Can you expand on that part ?
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
and treat players as idiots, such as almost everyone who's written for it. Human concerns aren't marginal.
Here I'm not understanding at all. |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5696 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 21:17:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
I'm glad they're going to 4th Edition because that gives me a quit date.
Well met
Aye, i'm not sure my bookcases can cope with another edition of such an extensive RPG system either Version numbering will always enforce progression and so long as WotC are still around, there WILL be a 5th ed, and a 6th and so on. Without this, the question will be raised of "just how old is this edition of D&D?". I believe that WotC are thinking like the big corporations (as per software producers, if you wish to apply this trend analysis to anything), where a system must be continually updated to new editions regardless, lest it is deemed "out of date", despite it working perfectly and doing a great job.
So with this foresight, I envisage we'll be here in a number of years now, where the 4th ed. fans are now disgruntled that they have to start all over again with a new 5th ed. PHBDMG etc.
Anyway, enough of my ramblings, but like Kiaransalyn - I DO see this as a cut off date for me and will be quite happy with that based on what i've accumulated thus far  |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 21:26:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
The following is apparently not a joke.quote:
Here’s a highly probable conversation lifted from the future, one year from today, as two players who’ve just met at a convention discuss their PC choices for their upcoming D&D game.
“I’m playing a 3rd-level human fighter named Graelar.”
“Cool. Is he weapon and shield or two-hander?”
“He’s sword and board, man.”
“Longsword?”
“Yeah. I thought about going high Con and using a hammer, but I wanted to start with the chance to make a couple of attacks, so I’m using rain of blows as my good weapon attack, and I went with high Wis so that I can switch to the better oppy powers later.”
“My elf fighter uses a spear. I like the speed and the option to go past AC. But you’ve got the fighter covered. I’ll play a halfling rogue.”
Now this makes my head hurt. I sincerely hope I never end up having to use this system. But each to his own, that's what most people are saying about 2ed. I am still worried for the Realms though. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4692 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 21:30:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Anyway, enough of my ramblings, but like Kiaransalyn - I DO see this as a cut off date for me and will be quite happy with that based on what i've accumulated thus far
Over at the new forum that should not be mentioned, at least one claims quote:
If anything, Wizards has made it easier for those with no intention of playing 4th Edition to persue their 3rd edition collections. Out of print books very often see reductions in price (a phenomenon that never ceases to confuse me) especially when new editions are released.
This of course is offered as an opinion, not a statement of fact.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4692 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 22:33:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
New details : http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=204357&page=1
Just a word : Wow !
*shudders*
No conversion posible, build new characters.
Encounter based, what does that mean? If one does not do expected task all die? 4 against 4 at same level, 50 percent chance of party winning, if all of party does what they are expected to do.
I perhaps wait for official text, that WotC appears to keep well hidden, before commenting more so. I am not loading vids of my box. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36874 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 23:01:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
New details : http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=204357&page=1
Just a word : Wow !
Great -- D&D is becoming WoW. If I want to play WoW, I'll play WoW. I won't play WoW if I want D&D, though. 
One line in particular enrages me:
quote:
We are still investigating, digital issues will be usable without being connected. Books – You will need to be logged in to use them. Still working out how to make this work for you and for us.
Excuse me? I pay for something, but then I can't use it when and where I want unless I'm tethered to a computer? Oh, piss all over that. I'm beginning to rethink my earlier stance... I don't play D&D to be tethered to my computer. If I can't use material without an internet connection, then I won't buy that material. I may just stick with 3.5 and tell them where to put their 4E stuff.
It's not about being resistant to change. It's about being resistant to having arbitrary limits placed on things I pay for. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4692 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 23:06:21
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Pay? I saw they want 9.95 USD a month to become an Insider. Not sure if they will take other funds yet from other places. I am having a very hard time finding any text concerning official abboucement, and I am not a YouTube type of person.
The report indicates the PHB and DMG is almost complete, so ranting not likely going to do any good.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 23:08:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Great -- D&D is becoming WoW. If I want to play WoW, I'll play WoW. I won't play WoW if I want D&D, though.
One line in particular enrages me ...
Excuse me? I pay for something, but then I can't use it when and where I want unless I'm tethered to a computer? Oh, piss all over that. I'm beginning to rethink my earlier stance... I don't play D&D to be tethered to my computer. If I can't use material without an internet connection, then I won't buy that material. I may just stick with 3.5 and tell them where to put their 4E stuff.
It's not about being resistant to change. It's about being resistant to having arbitrary limits placed on things I pay for.
I never meant Wow as in World of Warcraft*, I meant IMHO, 4e is the best thing that could happen to D&D (of course it's not the perfect RPG in my eyes, but D&D will never be it).
You will not need a computer to use the physical books you have purchased.
*Again IMHO, the MMORPGs haven't created much gaming concepts, many funny names yeah, but not many concepts. The party members in D&D always got a role to play, it's not because D&D designers use the now popular "tank", "healer", "nuker" terms that it's something new in D&D. Even Ed said it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwRxXbcruUg
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Edited by - Skeptic on 18 Aug 2007 00:09:58 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36874 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 23:46:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Great -- D&D is becoming WoW. If I want to play WoW, I'll play WoW. I won't play WoW if I want D&D, though.
One line in particular enrages me ...
Excuse me? I pay for something, but then I can't use it when and where I want unless I'm tethered to a computer? Oh, piss all over that. I'm beginning to rethink my earlier stance... I don't play D&D to be tethered to my computer. If I can't use material without an internet connection, then I won't buy that material. I may just stick with 3.5 and tell them where to put their 4E stuff.
It's not about being resistant to change. It's about being resistant to having arbitrary limits placed on things I pay for.
I never meant Wow as in World of Warcraft*, I meant IMHO, 4e is the best thing that could happen to D&D (of course it's not the perfect RPG in my eyes, but D&D will never be it).
You will not need a computer to use the physical books you have purchased.
*Again IMHO, the MMORPGs haven't created much gaming concepts, many funny names yeah, but not many concepts. The party members in D&D always got a role to play, it's not because D&D designers use the now popular "tank", "healer", "nuker" terms that it's something new in D&D.
I didn't think you were referring to WoW at all -- but reading thru the stuff on that link, I was thinking they were trying to turn D&D into WoW -- and I don't want that.
And yeah, physical books are one thing -- but they specifically state you have to be logged in to use them. So that means online content won't be available offline -- and if I have to pay to access it, I want it available at any time after I've paid for it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 23:57:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I didn't think you were referring to WoW at all -- but reading thru the stuff on that link, I was thinking they were trying to turn D&D into WoW -- and I don't want that.
What exactly bother you? I want to understand because I loved every bit of that text. (Again, that doesn't mean D&D4E is my ideal RPG, just a better D&D)
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And yeah, physical books are one thing -- but they specifically state you have to be logged in to use them. So that means online content won't be available offline -- and if I have to pay to access it, I want it available at any time after I've paid for it.
I think online content will be partialy available offline, but the details seem not fixed yet. And it's a policy that is easy to change if people ask for it. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 17 Aug 2007 23:58:31 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 00:48:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
The following is apparently not a joke.quote:
Here’s a highly probable conversation lifted from the future, one year from today, as two players who’ve just met at a convention discuss their PC choices for their upcoming D&D game.
“I’m playing a 3rd-level human fighter named Graelar.”
“Cool. Is he weapon and shield or two-hander?”
“He’s sword and board, man.”
“Longsword?”
“Yeah. I thought about going high Con and using a hammer, but I wanted to start with the chance to make a couple of attacks, so I’m using rain of blows as my good weapon attack, and I went with high Wis so that I can switch to the better oppy powers later.”
“My elf fighter uses a spear. I like the speed and the option to go past AC. But you’ve got the fighter covered. I’ll play a halfling rogue.”
What language are they speaking? And how old are they?
"Oppy powers", LOL! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 18 Aug 2007 00:49:23 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 00:54:27
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Yay, the wotc site is working.
Saw the 4E Teaser Trailer. Looks like they were "putting down" previous versions of the game to try to make 4E look better.
I had to stop watching it. The fake French accent was hurting my ears. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 00:59:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I had to stop watching it. The fake French accent was hurting my ears.
The grapple joke was fine, but I didn't understand the fake French accent either. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 18 Aug 2007 01:00:26 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 01:03:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
You know, I remember the email I used and the password and yet, I can only sign in as a Guest. Whats up with that??
The system is not taking members right now from indications.
After I entered my email then went to password by email turned back to guest.
After a cursory read-through of that webpage, they aren't going to start making people pay for content until the spring. The point is to let people see what they will be paying for. So, everyone is a "guest" right now. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 01:10:22
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Oh, by the way, I'd love to join in an "4venture" with you all, myself, assuming I can make the time. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 18 Aug 2007 01:10:38 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 01:21:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
(c) the most recent rules are naturally the best, the most advanced or 'evolved'. An analogy is made to software version numbers, which is a deception because unlike with RPG rules, the improvement in hardware does allow successive versions to be more powerful.
Having watched the little YouTube presentations, I definitely got that "vibe". I always try to keep in mind that these are products that WotC is trying to sell. I try to be both skeptical and positive at the same time. I'm very interested in seeing what will be coming in the next few months, but at the same time I wasn't entirely "sold" on the claimed improvements of 4th Edition, such as:
quote:
More options, not restrictions. Everyone will be a constructive, useful member of the party, no accidental lame characters.
What's an "accidental lame character"? Where there any classes that were truly not constructive or useful before? Isn't it at least partly about what the player brings to the table (and of course, roleplaying)? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4692 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2007 : 01:26:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
The system is not taking members right now from indications.
After I entered my email then went to password by email turned back to guest.
After a cursory read-through of that webpage, they aren't going to start making people pay for content until the spring. The point is to let people see what they will be paying for. So, everyone is a "guest" right now.
Well it would be nice if they let me see content as a guest, however I do have java disabled and that might be a reason I can not see content.
I still not impressed with webmaster or IT team for what I can see. Blame them more for what I can not see and should be able to. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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D&D 4e Discussion Scroll
