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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 11:08:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Well met
I'm unable to access the site this morning (firewall block rather than an issue with WotC servers, you'll be pleased to hear  )... could anyone please confirm if the 3.5 D&D and FR material is still available or if this has been archived off.
I still keep gettin the 'We are experiencing Technical Difficulties' thing. Whatever they are doin, they must be redoin everything. I wouldn't be surprised to find a completely new design and set-up.
I haven't been able to access it even once today so far. |
News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document
D20 Modern System Reference Document
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Theophilus
Learned Scribe
Australia
143 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 11:30:31
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Well, after having come back to D&D after a 13+ year break I'm only just getting used to the 3.5 ed rules so I hope the 4th ed. is not too different. I also hope that they aren't doing it purely to make some money out of the fans. (It seems to be a statement of heterodoxy here but I still prefer the 2nd ed rules.)
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 12:03:08
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
9 months and counting, but I want to be first in line for the Candlekeep role-playing group we can get together. I want to see Alaundo and a few authors joining in. Talk about your selling points for the site!
See you in May 2008 for an 4dventure.
Well met
Now there's a thought 
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Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 12:04:50
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Well met
Thanks all for trying to get on and let me know. Hmmm, I can imagine the load on the WotC server has been quite heavy. I'd best not whine about it after the recent server problems we had here at Candlekeep, however  Still, a big corporation like WotC can afford to splash out on big meaty web servers  |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 12:17:35
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I'm glad they're going to 4th Edition because that gives me a quit date. Or does it? D&D can be addictive and I know some part of me is curious to know what they'll do.
Will they do away with the thousands of feats that 3rd Edition spawned? I hope so, since to my thinking each new feat is another rule. Will they make Blackguard a character class? I hope so, since it and some of the other prestige classes, e.g. shadow-dancer in 3rd Edn DMG looked as though they'll be good as straight-forward classes.
Will they include an option where Non-player character classes can be traded? I think that commoner as an NPC class should have the ability to exchange classes after enough experience has been gained?
The problem with these questions is they're just the thoughts of one person. We all have things we'd like to change and yet at the same time none of us like throwing our money away needlessly. I can't help feeling that 4th Edn will be a con job just like v3.5 was.
Edit: Maybe they'll finally do away with alignment! That would halve the number of table-top and forum discussions right there! |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 17 Aug 2007 12:20:42 |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 13:28:43
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| I knew something diabolical was up when i tried to log on to WotC the other day. I knew it was going to cost me more money! Why can I not choose cheap hobbies like rock collecting? You go out for a walk, find a rock you like, take it home, simple as that. No money spent... That's not for me, I spend money for 3.5 rulebooks just so two years later I can do it all over again... I imagine the new players handbook will be forty dollars... Sorry, had to get it off my chest. I will not say anything else until more info comes out... |
ShadowJack |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 13:33:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Edit: Maybe they'll finally do away with alignment! That would halve the number of table-top and forum discussions right there!
I still maintain that there's nothing wrong with the existing alignment system -- it's simply not something most people perceive correctly. I don't know if it's because they refuse to read the alignment descriptions (which I think are more than clear) or if it's because they simply can't wrap their minds around such things as chaotic evil not equalling murderous psychopath.
The thing that irks me the most about 4E is that now we're going to have to get more reprinted sourcebooks that are partial rehashes, while we're still waiting on updates from 1E and 2E stuff. That's why I wish we could get a return to books that are pure lore... Leave the rules for other books, so that new rulesets don't demand reprints of everything. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 13:37:35
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
That's not for me, I spend money for 3.5 rulebooks just so two years later I can do it all over again...
That's the biggest flaw I see with this plan to release a new ruleset so soon after the release of a prior ruleset... I just lost all my stuff; this new ruleset means I'm not even going to bother with re-acquiring any of the Core stuff. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 13:45:20
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Stinky wizard's home page! No excess since this morning. Seems that too many people are interested in this "4adventure thing".
*Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr*
Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 14:08:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Well met
I'm unable to access the site this morning (firewall block rather than an issue with WotC servers, you'll be pleased to hear )... could anyone please confirm if the 3.5 D&D and FR material is still available or if this has been archived off.
When I was in the site hours ago my bookmark worked. At least that material was not archived. I certainly can not speak for other material as I was only had limited time to read anything.
There is good reason to hope no material was moved, deleted or archived |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 17 Aug 2007 14:12:26 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 14:36:14
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I had some time to dwell on the 4th edition thingy while at work...
Fact 1: a company needs to make a living/earn money to exist
Fact 2: when the market has leveled out you have to tap into a new customer base to expand
Fact 3: thank goodness the RPG-industry is not like the car industry, otherwise we would get a new edition every 18 months or so
Yes, it is annoying, but if wizards didn't sell any books at all they'd declare D&D outdated and take the whole game to the pasture to be shot. So they wanna tap into new resources, fine with me, as long as my screw A (namely a book from a previous edition) still works with the new model and vice versa, I might eventually give it a shot. Hell, I waited 6 years to actually play 3.X, and believe me, I was one of the first people to own the new PHB in 2000.
In a way it is like buying a car, most people drive it until they see the need for a sleeker model. I did, at a point where I had far too many discussions and rules-questions on the gaming table, and far too much headache after a game to enjoy DMing it.
Maybe, I start buying 4.x just a couple of years before 5th edition is released, BUT WOTC should start making things backward compatible, so that we can still use the stuff we bought for 3.x is STILL USABLE in forthcoming editions.
To work with the car metaphor a little longer, here in Germany there is a rule(or some such thing) that spare parts for a certain model have to be available for X number of years after the model has gone out of productions... maybe they could learn something from that (in a way)... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 14:47:31
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Ok, here's what I found out by going to the ::shudder:: Gleemax part of the WotC site. (And, man, did I have to dig through blogs to find this stuff out.)
First, the reason the D&D site's down it two-fold. First, it's the amount of people that aren't at GenCon trying to figure out what's up with 4e. Second... they moved all their D&D stuff to it's own server. I sure hope they migrated a bunch of the FR stuff over there, too. Apparently the new site's going to have character generator and virtual gaming tables, and oodles and oodles of techno-gadgets to bring table top games into the 21st century (read... more like a brainless video game for the Hasbro crowd I'm fearing).
Also, the new 4e is going to be more digitally based, as well, it seems. I don't think I'd mind that, really. I just don't want to lose all my gaming materials if my hard drive decides to crash. And I'm going to have to print out pages to do my thinking while I'm sitting... at the DM thinkin' spot. Ahem. 
The comment was made about a change of weapon set up. I kinda like the idea of a little alteration on the weapon rules. I think they were starting to lean towards that a bit, but I think if a character is proficient with swords, they shouldn't need to spend the a feat to use a kopesh. And... whips should be a given to all female characters! 
Another concern... there's been no mention of OGL. If the OGL goes bye-bye what's going to happen to all those gaming companies that have brought us some innovative ideas and products, but are resting on the OGL? I hope they're smart enough to adapt and change... but I fear that too many of them may throw their hands up. I currently play test for one of the small up and coming companies. I know the owner/writer is very concerned since most of his sales are from the d20 OGL crowd.
Finally, we have to remember that Hasbro bought WotC all those years ago not for D&D but for Pokemon, and then lost the rights. Personally, I am hoping that WotC can, at sometime in the future, split from Hasbro, so they can become a Gaming Company again. They bought TSR, I was told, not because of some grab for gaming, but to keep D&D alive. I hope that old spirit is still sleeping somewhere in the bowels of WotC, and that it may yet stir. Of course... they did create Magic.  |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 15:05:32
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Big?
Yes, twice as big as the average TSR book.quote:
Other companies, smaller companies at that have put out more material in more time.
Yes, Wizards' main goal isn't to maximize page count.quote:
. . . they have a bottom line and they must make money on every product or else the bean counters come firing.
Which makes your conjecture about Realms sourcebooks being unprofitable senseless.quote:
Originally posted by Theophilus
I also hope that they aren't doing it purely to make some money out of the fans.
Well, cycling editions is part of the standard RPG business model, but with Jonathan Tweet and Monte Cook gone, I'm sure the current staff designers honestly see things that 'need fixing' (= don't match their preferences).quote:
(It seems to be a statement of heterodoxy here but I still prefer the 2nd ed rules.)
Many of us do.quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The thing that irks me the most about 4E is that now we're going to have to get more reprinted sourcebooks that are partial rehashes, while we're still waiting on updates from 1E and 2E stuff.
Not necessarily for the Realms; the FR and FOR series went right through the 1E/2E shift, the exceptions being welcome expanded treatments like City of Splendors. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 17:10:36
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For what its worth, here is the link to the 4E Forgotten Realms discussion thread at (I hate using this term) Gleemax:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13446690&posted=1
If you feel so inclined, you may want to make your opinion heard, if only so you know that you've said your peace. It amazes me that some of the first posters are people that aren't fans of the Realms either trying to modify a setting they already don't like or calling for is dissolution. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 17:22:36
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And the Wizards boards has gotten its first 5 ed thread  . |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 17:40:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I still maintain that there's nothing wrong with the existing alignment system -- it's simply not something most people perceive correctly. I don't know if it's because they refuse to read the alignment descriptions (which I think are more than clear) or if it's because they simply can't wrap their minds around such things as chaotic evil not equalling murderous psychopath.
I do see your point.
And I do know that in the PHB it says something like alignment is a guideline more than straitjacket.
But then I see NPCs like Greyanna Dhuunir (spelt wrong I'm sure, sorry) from the recent Shadowvale adventure and I wonder why a drow, of all possible races, should need Protection from Good. 'Protection from Drow' would be better since those are the creatures a drow would most fear and at the least influence their daily spell preparation. I don't mean to be facetious with that example but I think when a spell can detect a person's general disposition and physically interact with them then alignment becomes in the eyes of many indelible.
If as you say, the system is understandable but it's a thing most people don't get then the system perhaps should change to accommodate the majority.
I know alignment is a contentious issue and I fear I haven't made the point that I wish to make very well. Maybe we need alignment and aura. Powerful demons and suchlike would have evil auras and as such Protection from Good spells work against them but not affect a normal orc with an evil alignment. After all, if you're brought up in an evil culture and you have never known any other way to behave, is it really your fault that you're evil? Surely, a truly evil person makes a commitment to an evil deity or cause; and in doing so confers upon themselves an evil aura. In my eyes, being an orc and worshipping Gruumsh does not make the orc evil because orcs tend to worship orc deities and many orcs are not exposed to any other pantheons so therefore do not have a choice.
My final comment on the issue is I like the Arcanis approach, which places deities above alignment and they say that Cure spells tend to be thought of as good spells but curing a murderer who you know will kill again is an evil act.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The thing that irks me the most about 4E is that now we're going to have to get more reprinted sourcebooks that are partial rehashes, while we're still waiting on updates from 1E and 2E stuff. That's why I wish we could get a return to books that are pure lore... Leave the rules for other books, so that new rulesets don't demand reprints of everything.
I've been thinking about that myself. I think ever since I saw that the Lichdrow Dyrr had changed from a wizard to a sorcerer I began developing a dislike for the newest editions. Sorcerers have never made sense in a drow setting anyway. The retro-fitting really does jar when you've followed a setting through various editions.
I think you're very right, books on pure lore would be welcome. Maybe once a year we can get updates on all the significant events that have happened in the Realms. There are six hundred and sixty six layers of the Abyss how many times does 66th one need a source-book.
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
In a way it (4th Edition) is like buying a car, most people drive it until they see the need for a sleeker model.
I don't agree with you there, Mace. When D&D changes edition it's like going from a horse-drawn carriage to a car. A lot changes. I think for many the choice can be presented as 'upgrade or "die"'. When I use the term, "die" I mean that suddenly players feel that they're out-of-date; they know there is no more support. There are a lot of people out there who can still get support from mechanics and spare part shops for their old bangers. Is anybody issuing 2nd Edn sourcebooks any more? Could anyone actually do that without contravening copyright anyway?
Maybe, WotC could think about different systems for different settings. 4th Edn for Ebberon, 2nd Edn for the Realms and 3rd Edn for Greyhawk, for example.
Ah well, I'm not sure why I'm writing about the whole thing, it's not as if I can affect what WotC chooses to do. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 17 Aug 2007 17:49:07 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 17:56:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
If as you say, the system is understandable but it's a thing most people don't get then the system perhaps should change to accommodate the majority.
But we have no evidence that that's so.quote:
I think for many the choice can be presented as 'upgrade or "die"'. When I use the term, "die" I mean that suddenly players feel that they're out-of-date; they know there is no more support.
There's a practical element to that, but a very large part is the powerful irrational consumerist conditioning that (a) a ruleset or setting must have continuous new material or it's 'dead', (b) that you're, as you say, out of date if you're not using the latest, and (c) the most recent rules are naturally the best, the most advanced or 'evolved'. An analogy is made to software version numbers, which is a deception because unlike with RPG rules, the improvement in hardware does allow successive versions to be more powerful.quote:
Is anybody issuing 2nd Edn sourcebooks any more? Could anyone actually do that without contravening copyright anyway?
Several small RPG presses publish 1E-compatible books, whereas admiration of 2E is tied more to settings than rules. |
Edited by - Faraer on 17 Aug 2007 17:57:01 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 18:00:55
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While a person might want a new improve car, they decide when to get it.
An Edition change is more about WotC wanting a new car and hoping other people will pay for it.
Some people will be eager for the new mayerial, hoping it fixes things they believe is broke in 3.X, others might buy some 4th material and convert that back to what version they believe is best. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 18:15:32
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I wonder if Gleemax will support 3.5.....
Will you only be able to place monsters within the gameboard that you have access to from the monster manuals you own?
The dungeon tiles that are offered, are they only offered if you purchased the Dungeon Tile product from WoTC?
I'm REALLY interested in the website that is coming with 4th edition, even though neither of my gaming groups will use it..... the one that is internet savvy don't play DnD, and the other that does play DnD, not all have computers. =( |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 18:30:20
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
For what its worth, here is the link to the 4E Forgotten Realms discussion thread at (I hate using this term) Gleemax:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13446690&posted=1
If you feel so inclined, you may want to make your opinion heard,
Thanks for the link, KnightErrant. I liked what you said in your posts by the way.
Hmm, it's been some time since I last visited the Wizards forums I think:
quote:
Welcome, kiaransalyn.
You last visited: 07-12-05 at 03:14 PM
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Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 18:40:27
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
For what its worth, here is the link to the 4E Forgotten Realms discussion thread at (I hate using this term) Gleemax:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13446690&posted=1
If you feel so inclined, you may want to make your opinion heard, if only so you know that you've said your peace. It amazes me that some of the first posters are people that aren't fans of the Realms either trying to modify a setting they already don't like or calling for is dissolution.
I want to go there and comment, but I can't... Gleemax is WotC, so my refusal to participate on their forums is extended to there. I won't go back until my wrongful banning is rescinded. And that'll happen about the same time Bane hangs up the evil gig and joins the Girl Scouts. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 18:58:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
For those that don't already know, the site is back up. And I was right, the setup and everything is different.
Yup it is up and aparently not FireFox compatible as to display. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 18:59:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And that'll happen about the same time Bane hangs up the evil gig and joins the Girl Scouts.
Strangely enough, that's in the cards for the 4E FRCS. Bane happens to enjoy Tagalongs and Do Se Does and wanted to get directly at the source. Of course, as Mask tells it, the real reason isn't the cookies. It's that Bane likes to wear a green skirt and beret.
I'm just reporting what I've heard.
Anyway, try to remember your old password. |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 19:04:46
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
I knew something diabolical was up when i tried to log on to WotC the other day. I knew it was going to cost me more money! Why can I not choose cheap hobbies like rock collecting? You go out for a walk, find a rock you like, take it home, simple as that. No money spent... That's not for me, I spend money for 3.5 rulebooks just so two years later I can do it all over again... I imagine the new players handbook will be forty dollars... Sorry, had to get it off my chest. I will not say anything else until more info comes out...
Becareful where you do that rock collecting at.
Someplaces have serious fines for that, as it is "defacing" nature. |
News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document
D20 Modern System Reference Document
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 19:09:38
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And that'll happen about the same time Bane hangs up the evil gig and joins the Girl Scouts.
Strangely enough, that's in the cards for the 4E FRCS. Bane happens to enjoy Tagalongs and Do Se Does and wanted to get directly at the source. Of course, as Mask tells it, the real reason isn't the cookies. It's that Bane likes to wear a green skirt and beret.
I'm just reporting what I've heard.
Anyway, try to remember your old password.
lol
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News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document
D20 Modern System Reference Document
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 19:11:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
You know, I remember the email I used and the password and yet, I can only sign in as a Guest. Whats up with that??
The system is not taking members right now from indications.
After I entered my email then went to password by email turned back to guest. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 19:18:55
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| Do not ask me, I am not webmaster. *shrugs* |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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D&D 4e Discussion Scroll
