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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Oct 2007 : 21:52:51
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Ok and it's me that get pointed to get back on topic... yeah.. |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 10:27:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Ok and it's me that get pointed to get back on topic... yeah..
Don't you wanna be COOL and ROCK?!?    |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2007 : 10:51:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Ok and it's me that get pointed to get back on topic... yeah..
Don't you wanna be COOL and ROCK?!?
Thanks a lot, now I got Twisted Sister in my head. Now I got to make that record player sweat to clean that out. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2007 : 02:56:30
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Call me crazy... 4e previews (the first confessions of a full time wizard & Design & Development from this week).
Okay, the confessions article makes me kinda sad. It really wasn't about D&D. It was the emotional scars of life (with which I'm very well aware).
So, Life lesson #1: Things change.
Sure do. We all kinda figured that one out, but whether the change is good or not (4e) remains to be seen (the closest to 4e mechanics I've seen is the article on the Monsters: Dragons).
Life Lesson #2: Build a bridge & get over it.
This is textbook on how to anger people. No matter what the context, these words specifically strike a chord with me, as I'm constantly building bridges to get over (I love that part of being offended lots  ).
Life Lesson #3: Look your best on the outside, and you will protect your inside.
No. I just can't go here. It's a lesson on reality politics, not gaming.
Then we get to an actual thought about DM vs Player mentality (one I don't carry). "Your Character is going to die." A lesson in player antagonizing that I learned many years ago NOT to do, especially for my small group of friends.
sorry, all negative feedback there.
Now, on to the Design & Development:
The Warlock & the Tiefling. I'm glad they're in the Player's Handbook. It appears that they are combining some of the Hexblade & Warlock's abilities together to build a better warlock (which means that the Hex is gone). I do like the name they put on experienced/accomplished warlocks' gained ability: Boon of Souls. That just looks interesting (perhaps even good).
The only thing that hits me as wrong in the whole article is that "Our understanding of the party roles indicates that the sorcerer and the wizard might very well be standing on each other's toes and pointy hats." Indications one or the other is going away? I don't know, but we shall see over time.
There, positive (okay, neutral ) feedback from a 4e non-advocate.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
Edited by - Darkmeer on 14 Oct 2007 02:57:09 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2007 : 03:04:44
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Yeah, I said this on the Paizo boards as well, but I did kind of like the preview of the Warlock. Heck, this is what I've been saying about telling us what is good about 4th edition instead of how bad 3.5 is. The warlock sounds interesting, and I agree that even the "official" warlock that we have seen running around the Realms, in Erik's book, still fits into what they are doing fairly well, I would think.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4692 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2007 : 03:10:04
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Well Warlock Tiefling in the Realms is an insult to me for many reasons, espcially with rumor of a former core race disappearing (we know with good certaincy some core classes are gone until PHB2 or 3 or 4 etc.). The elves have been changed and the other new core class Warlord appears to be in.
The Warlord bothers me a little less then the warlock, however the gender bisas I do not like at all.
As for actual design for 4th I have not seen much recently except for a list of edition combatiblity. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Ranak
Learned Scribe
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2007 : 02:46:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Well Warlock Tiefling in the Realms is an insult to me for many reasons, especially with rumor of a former core race disappearing (we know with good certainty some core classes are gone until PHB2 or 3 or 4 etc.). The elves have been changed and the other new core class Warlord appears to be in.
The Warlord bothers me a little less then the warlock, however the gender biases I do not like at all.
As for actual design for 4th I have not seen much recently except for a list of edition compatibility.
Why would a Warlock be insulting, particularly since one was a main character in a recent Realms novel (Depths of Madness)? Also, a lot of characters, such as Pristoleph, are already tieflings. They have been a core race for the realms since the 3rd Edition Realms Forgotten Realms source book... not even mentioning the Fey'ri which appeared in Races of Faerun. This is hardly a big change. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2007 : 03:01:27
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Honestly, what races are or are not included in the Player's Handbook I don't bug me that much anymore, since its been made clear that its not a declaration of "core" to be in that book, that its just what they decided to roll out first, this year. Its not so much that they aren't going to have gnomes, its that they don't want to have gnome as a "launch" race, rather than as a "core" race.
Now, you can argue spreading out the traditional races, classes, and monsters of D&D out over several years of releases isn't a good idea, or is an artificial way of getting people to buy more "core" books than they normally would, but that's a different discussion that if the race exists or not.
For example, Rich seemed to have implied that drow and genasi might be included in the FRCG, even though they aren't Player's Handbook I races. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4692 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2007 : 04:16:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Ranak
Why would a Warlock be insulting,
It would violate the code of Conduct to reply to this question. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2007 : 05:13:39
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I very much think that the Warlock is much more interesting than the Sorcerer as far as a staple class...not that the latter should be eliminated, just that I like the Warlock more.
I've even thought that Warlock's should be able to have Good patrons as well...perhaps Solars or other powerful good aligned beings that could make pacts with people.
Long ago, when comics were only costing me a dime, I came across this one (perhaps Strange Tales or some such...don't have it any longer) where a man sold his soul for the chance to have something (I think it was the love of a woman). Anyway, at the end of the short story, the fella thinks he is going to be taken to hell...but the guy that comes back to claim him is actually an angel.
Too many people are locked into Christianity's model of only selling your soul to a lower planar power...in a fantasy game where such mores don't apply...why not have it both ways? How about the Ogre that makes a deal to become chief of his tribe...but has to move them away from attacking villages and only hunting to survive? There are lots of ways this could play out in different areas. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2007 : 05:21:18
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Sigh. Outside of the basics idea of "warlord" being the class name, I just thought of something (and I don't recall seeing it).
The Warlord class is the Marshal from the Miniatures handbook (speculation, no sources here). A marvelous "commander" type of character and a relatively good no-magic version of the bard. Mind you, this is only an opinion, and as such you may disagree about the class being good or not. So, if that is the case, and they add the bard later as a Prestige or base class, I wouldn't be terribly upset. It would, however, make the FRCG a bit more difficult to write (lotsa bards in realmslore, as we all know).
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Ranak
Learned Scribe
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2007 : 06:33:28
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Finally some exciting news about the Pantheon. Although they are culling some deities and making them servants of greater gods, I am really looking forward to the new additions. Chris Perkins verifies, the Realms are getting some new gods in 4E! I am really hoping for a decently menacing replacement for Cyric, who never really quite worked for me (he was the worst result of the ToT).
"The 4E FR setting will have a smaller pantheon. In general, there will be less overlap in the gods' portfolios. Consequently, some 3E deities have been 'demoted,' effectively becoming agents or emissaries of more powerful gods. A handful of deities have been killed off. There are also a few new deities to fill holes."
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14049296&postcount=16 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2007 : 06:40:47
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| Yeah, we've posted that in the FR thread for 4e. :) I'd check there for FR material 1st since this was more of a generic thread for 4e. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2007 : 06:41:03
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I must admit that it seems a little ridiculous to me that they, in more or less the same sentence, plan to "cull" the gods to reduce the pantheon and also the promote new gods. Oh, well.
I do feel an intense wish to explode in rage and frothing rantings, but what's the use. |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 00:23:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Ranak
Finally some exciting news about the Pantheon. Although they are culling some deities and making them servants of greater gods, I am really looking forward to the new additions. Chris Perkins verifies, the Realms are getting some new gods in 4E! I am really hoping for a decently menacing replacement for Cyric, who never really quite worked for me (he was the worst result of the ToT).
I am actually a bit worried about this, because I fear that these new deities will be from the core rules (RW deities, I'd assume, such as Odin, Zeus and Thor). |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Ranak
Learned Scribe
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 05:46:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by Ranak
Finally some exciting news about the Pantheon. Although they are culling some deities and making them servants of greater gods, I am really looking forward to the new additions. Chris Perkins verifies, the Realms are getting some new gods in 4E! I am really hoping for a decently menacing replacement for Cyric, who never really quite worked for me (he was the worst result of the ToT).
I am actually a bit worried about this, because I fear that these new deities will be from the core rules (RW deities, I'd assume, such as Odin, Zeus and Thor).
If they do something so foolish as to shoehorn Thor into the Realms, they will lose my support. I am looking forward to 4E for the most part, but that would be too much of a stretch. Since the loss of Myrkul and Bhaal, the realms have been lacking a truly frightening evil deity. I like Shar and Bane, but would like to see someone new to pit the players against. Gargauth has untapped potential I think.
I do hope that they drop the rules for divine rank, and stop attempting to quantify the powers of gods. It is reasonable to stat out aspects and avatars, but the gods themselves should be left to the imagination of the DM. That is one change I would like to see in 4ed. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 05:58:53
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I agree with Ranak...I think a truly scary evil god needs to come to the fore in the Forgotten Realms. Myrkul was a nice "scary" god...but with Cyric being imprisoned, maybe they can come up with some sort of Cthullu-ish evil god!
Someone perhaps spawned of the disaster of 1385 that all the gods fear...Bane included. That is something I would like to see. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Brenigin
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
117 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 08:31:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I am actually a bit worried about this, because I fear that these new deities will be from the core rules (RW deities, I'd assume, such as Odin, Zeus and Thor).
Next they'll bring in RW deities like Tyr, Osiris, Mielikki, Set, Oghma...
Oh, hang on... |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 15:10:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenigin
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I am actually a bit worried about this, because I fear that these new deities will be from the core rules (RW deities, I'd assume, such as Odin, Zeus and Thor).
Next they'll bring in RW deities like Tyr, Osiris, Mielikki, Set, Oghma...
Oh, hang on...
LOL...
Yeah, real world gods have always been in the Forgotten Realms; so I'm unsure why folks would hate it if others came in. I don't think I could go for whole pantheons with Zeus and his siblings in tow; but certain individuals wouldn't be out of character for the world. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 15:47:20
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| For some real 4E news, WOTC has revised their release of the MM, DMG, PHB. All three are now coming out in June instead of May, June, and July. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 17:57:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
For some real 4E news, WOTC has revised their release of the MM, DMG, PHB. All three are now coming out in June instead of May, June, and July.
That makes more sense than releasing the PHB in June then making everyone wait two months for the other books to come out so they can actually use them.
Indeed. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 18:09:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
For some real 4E news, WOTC has revised their release of the MM, DMG, PHB. All three are now coming out in June instead of May, June, and July.
Just wondering, do you have a link to that announcement? I visit the main D&D daily (except for on weekends) and I have not seen anything about it there. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 18:20:34
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
For some real 4E news, WOTC has revised their release of the MM, DMG, PHB. All three are now coming out in June instead of May, June, and July.
Just wondering, do you have a link to that announcement? I visit the main D&D daily (except for on weekends) and I have not seen anything about it there.
Sorry:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=209661
As WOTC said, they haven't made a official announcement on their web page yet. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4692 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 18:54:45
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| Well it clearly is strange that some anouncements are made at EN instead of own site. *shrugs* |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 17 Oct 2007 01:58:00 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2007 : 23:25:48
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quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
Someone perhaps spawned of the disaster of 1385 that all the gods fear...Bane included. That is something I would like to see.
Then those gods are no longer seen as real powers, and when people get used to the new evil, next time it has to be trumped in turn -- just like the RSEs, this is an unsupportable, insufferable, escalating sensationalistic slippery spiralling slope. Focus on human perspectives rather than global and divine ones, do justice to what you have, treat it as real rather than sacrificing it to other purposes, and you're much better off in the longer term. |
Edited by - Faraer on 16 Oct 2007 23:47:46 |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2007 : 00:50:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenigin
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I am actually a bit worried about this, because I fear that these new deities will be from the core rules (RW deities, I'd assume, such as Odin, Zeus and Thor).
Next they'll bring in RW deities like Tyr, Osiris, Mielikki, Set, Oghma...
Oh, hang on...
I should have written *more* RW deities... don't you think there are quite enough of them already? |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2007 : 00:56:42
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I'd say that there is a difference between the RW deities already introduced and introducing "iconic" deities from history. With the exception of the Old Empires, the deities in the Realms from our history aren't ones that are well known in pop culture. While its interesting to know that the Realms has portals to tons of places, including Earth, I think it would be more distracting to the unique feel of the setting to have Zeus, Hercules, Odin, or Thor, than to have deities like Mielikki, Sylvanus, or Tyche.
If you hear about Odin you think of Norse sagas, and if you hear about Zeus you think of Greek legends, but if you hear about lesser known gods, even ones that you know of, you don't automatically think of their whole pantheon, you think, "hm, so one or two Finnish gods are worshiped here . . . wonder what the story is on that?" |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2007 : 03:02:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
Someone perhaps spawned of the disaster of 1385 that all the gods fear...Bane included. That is something I would like to see.
Then those gods are no longer seen as real powers, and when people get used to the new evil, next time it has to be trumped in turn -- just like the RSEs, this is an unsupportable, insufferable, escalating sensationalistic slippery spiralling slope. Focus on human perspectives rather than global and divine ones, do justice to what you have, treat it as real rather than sacrificing it to other purposes, and you're much better off in the longer term.
"What I would like to see."
Wasn't trying to open a debate there honestly...but since the can opened:
Insufferable? Pretty strong language there. I'm more of the understanding that it could be an evil god that is really evil; not this wishy washy breaking the law kind of evil.
Talos could be an awesome and truly evil deity, but he has been tamed by his own desire to simply destroy on a little scale to make sure he has his worshipers cowed and spreading little disasters. If he instead turned to REALLY wanting to destroy the Realms, then he would be ok. As is, the evil deities, TO ME, are weak. Now, throw out some fell power like one that simply wants EVERYTHING dead and gone; then you have a truly evil deity. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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D&D 4e Discussion Scroll
