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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 22:55:45
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| That still leaves Spell Plauge out there at some point in time as a RSE to explain new magic system, new core classes and new core races. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 23:07:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
This just in -
Tom Costa just told me on the WotC boards that as far as HE knows, the timeline will only be moved forward 10 years.
Hurray!!!
He also said "he could be wrong..."
However, I now see a light at the end of the tunnel.
The truth is out there, Scully. 
Talking serious, I'm happy to hear this, and expect eagerly to see more of what is coming. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 23:14:55
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The Spellplague, as far as we know, already began somewhere in the old gray box. Like any 'new' disease, it takes years before people begin to notice a trend and identify it as a 'plague'.
The year 1385 DR, AFAIK, is consideed the 'official' beginning of the Spellplague as an RSE. That makes PERFECT sense, if the 4e campaign is starting in THAT year, because it will tie directly into the new magic rules system.
Switch... or die - it's that simple.
What that does is level the playing field across the board for ALL spellcasters. Elminster will still be alive in the 'new' Realms, but will he be a level thirty-something caster? 
A timejump of only ten... or even fifteen... years is much more sensible, and will be accepted by old fans and new alike.
The only fears I still have are those surrounding the "merger of two Worlds", but that could be just about anything. If it IS something akin to DC Comics Crisis, then that will be the way they retroactively re-create the lore. Its harsh, but at least it is a step in the right direction - too much of "it was always that way" when 3e came out upset a lot of people. Now we are just getting what we've been asking for - an IG explanations for rules changes.
You've heard the expression, "Be careful what you wish for"?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 23:25:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
This just in -
Tom Costa just told me on the WotC boards that as far as HE knows, the timeline will only be moved forward 10 years.
Hurray!!!
He also said "he could be wrong..."
However, I now see a light at the end of the tunnel.
I have the opposite reaction, I'm not interested in a setting with a clearly announced future. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 23:51:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
This just in -
Tom Costa just told me on the WotC boards that as far as HE knows, the timeline will only be moved forward 10 years.
Hurray!!!
He also said "he could be wrong..."
However, I now see a light at the end of the tunnel.
I hope he's right... If he is, then maybe the future Drizzt refers to is a bunch of planned RSEs that we get to try to stop or control... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 00:04:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
A timejump of only ten... or even fifteen... years is much more sensible, and will be accepted by old fans and new alike.
I agree, I fear that a lot less than a hundred year jump. Mostly because, as Ed has said before, the Realms is the people who live there. In a hundred years time, there won't be many of the characters we know and love still around. I can accept moving forward, characters age and die, have children who then grow up. That's fine, but I want to be there to see it, rather than leap decades down the line. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 00:44:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
A timejump of only ten... or even fifteen... years is much more sensible, and will be accepted by old fans and new alike.
That works good for dying of old age if characters are normal life span. It does not work for elves, etc.
I agree, I fear that a lot less than a hundred year jump. Mostly because, as Ed has said before, the Realms is the people who live there. In a hundred years time, there won't be many of the characters we know and love still around. I can accept moving forward, characters age and die, have children who then grow up. That's fine, but I want to be there to see it, rather than leap decades down the line.
[/quote] |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 14 Sep 2007 15:10:20 |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 03:22:12
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KJR, if anyone’s suggesting a division, it’s you.
I didn’t advocate the, “You’re not a true Realms fan if you don’t play 4E” idea in my post, nor does that idea follow from the points I made, nor is it something I'll accept out of anyone.
It’s painfully simple: I can’t see how Realms fans can decide now, two whole years beforehand, that they’re not going to by the 4E FRCS; itself a product not on the shelves and seen by exactly no one.
:::::::::
I can readily accept anyone looking through the 4E FRCS, deciding it’s not for them, then not buying it.
I can even grudgingly accept someone deciding not to by the new FRCS after reading reviews, or at least after having digested the future FR content that will inevitably appear on WoTC’s website (via Blogs, previews, etc...) prior to the 4E FRCS release.
But cutting one’s self off now? Doesn’t make sense to me.
:::::
Ed deserves a chance.
Eytan deserves a chance.
Brian (Cortijo) deserves a chance.
George deserves a chance.
Eric deserves a chance.
Bob deserves a chance.
Even Rich Baker deserves a chance.
And those of you ready to copout and jump ship now aren’t even going to give them one.
And that’s hugely disappointing.
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09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
Edited by - Sanishiver on 14 Sep 2007 03:25:04 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 03:44:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
<snip>deserves a chance.
And those of you ready to copout and jump ship now aren’t even going to give them one.
And that’s hugely disappointing.
Some of them had their chances already and have disappointed fans in the current edition. Why should those that disappoint now be given another chance because of a number and rule change? |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 03:48:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
KJR, if anyone’s suggesting a division, it’s you.
I didn’t advocate the, “You’re not a true Realms fan if you don’t play 4E” idea in my post, nor does that idea follow from the points I made, nor is it something I'll accept out of anyone.
It’s painfully simple: I can’t see how Realms fans can decide now, two whole years beforehand, that they’re not going to by the 4E FRCS; itself a product not on the shelves and seen by exactly no one.
:::::::::
I can readily accept anyone looking through the 4E FRCS, deciding it’s not for them, then not buying it.
I can even grudgingly accept someone deciding not to by the new FRCS after reading reviews, or at least after having digested the future FR content that will inevitably appear on WoTC’s website (via Blogs, previews, etc...) prior to the 4E FRCS release.
But cutting one’s self off now? Doesn’t make sense to me.
:::::
Ed deserves a chance.
Eytan deserves a chance.
Brian (Cortijo) deserves a chance.
George deserves a chance.
Eric deserves a chance.
Bob deserves a chance.
Even Rich Baker deserves a chance.
And those of you ready to copout and jump ship now aren’t even going to give them one.
And that’s hugely disappointing.
A short comment to explain my position; I have seen less and less use for the products coming out in 3ed. Subjective taste, not a comment on quality. I still buy a product here and there. Now, if they move completely away from the Realms I use there is not much need for me to buy the product. This is not a consequence of 4ed. rumours, it is a decision made after several years and several chances given, both to RSE, novels, changes etc. Most of these are simply not for me.
Am I still a Realms-fan though? Yea, and that is something I will continue to be for the simple reason that I choose to put that term on myself.
Is it early to speculate on the "new" Realms? Of course, that's why its called speculating, both on the positive and the negative. If we are waiting for facts there is nothing to discuss as of now is there?
Now, that attitude may disappoint some people, including you Sanishiver, but in the end this is something that has to do with ones own hobby, Realms, and free-time and not with other peoples opinions or acceptance. No matter what stance one takes on this or any other subject relating to the Realms as it is used personally, a Realms fan is one who chose to categorize him or herself as such. |
Edited by - Jorkens on 14 Sep 2007 14:41:27 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 04:30:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
It’s painfully simple: I can’t see how Realms fans can decide now, two whole years beforehand, that they’re not going to by the 4E FRCS; itself a product not on the shelves and seen by exactly no one.
Even if someone does decide that, why does it bother you so much? It's each person's own decision to make, whether you "accept" it or not. And it doesn't even affect you.
Besides, I don't recall seeing any one here stating that they are going to be "cutting themselves off" from the Realms post-haste. As Thauglor elegantly put it, there's not one person here who doesn't love and care about the Realms. People are concerned precisely because they love the setting so much. Some people will blithely accept any kind of change, other people don't, and if newer products don't work for them, there is no reason to purchase them. I agree with KEJR that buying anything with an FR logo on it could be counter-productive if one is unhappy with the direction of the setting.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 06:34:59
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The GHotR spoilers are starting to fly around the net, and I'm back to feeling gloomy again.
I thought the 'Spellplague' was going to be something well thought out. Unless we get a lot more detail from some other source, that explanation is woefully inadequate.
In fact, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense IMHO. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 14:43:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
It’s painfully simple: I can’t see how Realms fans can decide now, two whole years beforehand, that they’re not going to by the 4E FRCS; itself a product not on the shelves and seen by exactly no one.
Even if someone does decide that, why does it bother you so much? It's each person's own decision to make, whether you "accept" it or not. And it doesn't even affect you.
It bothers me because it's ilogical. And I am, as a math teacher, very concerned with logical thinking. Every time that I see a post like this, I almost run alway screaming. 
But, puting this apart, I know what the feeling about this mean. I'm a lover of the Realms, too, and stay concerned with the new changes. Some of them I already aproved (goodbye, Cyric, was nice to meet you), some I don't, but understand (Tyr/Helm episode; I love Helm, but I know a little of mithology to understand that it's plausible); and some I don't acept, until now (the death of Halaster, and of other gods that I like too much). But I'm mantaining myself positive. I know that Ed and the others can develop this in a good and rational plot. 
P.S.: 700th post! And advancing for the 1000th. Because nothing can stop a dwarven juggernaut.  |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
Edited by - Chosen of Moradin on 14 Sep 2007 14:46:05 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 14:51:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
It’s painfully simple: I can’t see how Realms fans can decide now, two whole years beforehand, that they’re not going to by the 4E FRCS; itself a product not on the shelves and seen by exactly no one.
Even if someone does decide that, why does it bother you so much? It's each person's own decision to make, whether you "accept" it or not. And it doesn't even affect you.
It bothers me because it's ilogical. And I am, as a math teacher, very concerned with logical thinking. Every time that I see a post like this, I almost run alway screaming.
Theres nothing illogical about "This does not seem interesting to me" Illogical would be to say "wow this sounds great, but I will not buy it". And when did human emotions and logic have any close ties at all |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 14:58:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
It’s painfully simple: I can’t see how Realms fans can decide now, two whole years beforehand, that they’re not going to by the 4E FRCS; itself a product not on the shelves and seen by exactly no one.
Even if someone does decide that, why does it bother you so much? It's each person's own decision to make, whether you "accept" it or not. And it doesn't even affect you.
It bothers me because it's ilogical. And I am, as a math teacher, very concerned with logical thinking. Every time that I see a post like this, I almost run alway screaming.
Theres nothing illogical about "This does not seem interesting to me" Illogical would be to say "wow this sounds great, but I will not buy it". And when did human emotions and logic have any close ties at all
Agreed. But this isn't what is said. What Sanishiver is saying is about "decide now, two whole years beforehand, that they’re not going to by the 4E FRCS; itself a product not on the shelves and seen by exactly no one."
It's like my wife, that don't like of sushi. Well, she never eat sushi, but she don't like. Go understand... |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 16:03:30
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I'm always willing to give designers of that quality a chance. It would be foolish not to. The problem is that we have NO idea what they will be doing. WoTC have let out little tidbits of information, and that information is disturbing, to say the least. Last sentence in Grand History of the Realms says that 'the old world ends and a new one begins'
This naturally worries people! When you get information like that from one source, but nothing from WoTC, it's natural for speculation to run rampant. It's a bit silly to declare now that you'll not be buying the FRCS outright though. I'm willing to see what they throw at us. |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 16:16:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
I'm always willing to give designers of that quality a chance. It would be foolish not to. The problem is that we have NO idea what they will be doing. WoTC have let out little tidbits of information, and that information is disturbing, to say the least. Last sentence in Grand History of the Realms says that 'the old world ends and a new one begins'
This naturally worries people! When you get information like that from one source, but nothing from WoTC, it's natural for speculation to run rampant. It's a bit silly to declare now that you'll not be buying the FRCS outright though. I'm willing to see what they throw at us.
'The old world ends and a new one begins' is probably a more dramatic wording for the end of the book. You have to have a powerful ending for a good book, especially if change is a foot. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 20:01:17
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Chosen of Moradin -
Have you read about what happens to the Dwarven Pantheon?
Maybe you'll change your mind then....
The timeline-jump may be of a more acceptable length, but the Spellplague's gonne make the ToT look like a Tea Party.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Sep 2007 23:34:46 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 20:02:15
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At this point, gloom and cheerleading are both unfounded wastes of time and energy, hard as it is to defer our feelings through the next year. But some observations are inevitable.quote:
Originally posted by Brenigin
There's no way they'll jump 100 years. Why would they? What makes a shared world like FR breathe is the characters. Jumping a century means losing almost all of them, bar a few elves and outsiders.
That sounds sensible to me.quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Well he said the core/ non realm world / would be a place of limited pockets of light/order/safety typye of world. Much like _Keep on the Borderland_ (and BD&D) was presented.
The original D&D concept, represented by B2, has strong human civilization, wilderness around, and borderlands between. Whereas in 'points of light', 'Most of the world is monster-haunted wilderness. The centers of civilization are few and far between'.
I like the society of the Realms.quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Hasn't this strategy been tried out in DragonLance already?
Is there, indeed, any precedent for a drastic change to an RPG setting not just keeping but increasing its popularity?quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Isn't the 4E Realms likely a return to the state of affairs of the Ol' Grey Box?
There's no comparison between a setting developed by its creator through 20 years of organic writing and game play, and a derivative setting conceived by a group of staff designers over a year or two.quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
But the truth of the matter is that Ed is still involved . . .
I'm not reasurred by that, since all it tells us is that he doesn't dislike the new Realms so much as to privately and publicly disavow them. Neither am I reassured by changes being referenced to extant lore fragments, which any competent designer could do with almost any change he desired. |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 20:39:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Chosen of Moradin -
Have you read about what happens to the Dwarven Pantheon?
Maybe you'll change you mind then....
The timeline-jump may be of a more acceptable length, but the Spellplague's gonne make the ToT look like a Tea Party.
Yes, I see the change in the Morndinsamman.
Basically, we have a dwarven god of war (Clangeddin), a dwarven god of defense and war (Gorm Gulthyn), and a dwarven goddess of joy of battle and... well... war (Haela Brightaxe).
See the point?
Worst of all, every dwarven warrior that I see roleplaying pray and scream to Moradin, in a fight.
And on a side note, Gorm Gulthyn is portrayed as "dying" even in the old editions...
I don't know, maybe Clangeddin gain the portfolios of Gorm and Haela, and Abbathor stay with the portfolios of Duerra and Laduguer.
Basically, I'm not expecting a galakkur about this. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 01:38:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
It bothers me because it's ilogical. And I am, as a math teacher, very concerned with logical thinking. Every time that I see a post like this, I almost run alway screaming.
I really do consider myself a "logical" type of person. But some things just don't have much to do with logic. This is one of them. Like you said, this is mainly an emotional issue, because people who are Realms fans (most of them, anyway) are fans precisely because they've invested at lot of emotion into the setting. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 02:09:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
It bothers me because it's ilogical. And I am, as a math teacher, very concerned with logical thinking. Every time that I see a post like this, I almost run alway screaming.
I really do consider myself a "logical" type of person. But some things just don't have much to do with logic. This is one of them. Like you said, this is mainly an emotional issue, because people who are Realms fans (most of them, anyway) are fans precisely because they've invested at lot of emotion into the setting.
Exactly, RF!. Heck, worst of all is the fact that I'm, in certain way, understanding the changes in the dwarven pantheon (too much gods with portfolios almost "equals"). I can see clearly Gorm Gulthin dying with honor and valor, defending his ethos.
But right now, I'm more sad with the departure of Helm, the first god of the Realms that "hook" me. The first realms novels that I read was the Avatar Trilogy, and I like of the Guardian right from the begining. I wait to see if all this will be very handled by the designers.
At least, they have the good will to put the changes 10 years in the future. With this, I don't need to upset some of my players (a Divine Mind of Haela, a Knight devoted to Helm, and a dwarven defender of Gorm) |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 02:32:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
Exactly, RF!. Heck, worst of all is the fact that I'm, in certain way, understanding the changes in the dwarven pantheon (too much gods with portfolios almost "equals"). I can see clearly Gorm Gulthin dying with honor and valor, defending his ethos.
If you find that some (or even all) of the changes work for you, I'm happy for you. I don't begrudge people who like the new Realms, even if they are not for me.
Not sure if I'll get the 4E FRCS yet. That's really up in the air--if nothing else, I'm curious as to what the changes are. But I wouldn't have any real reason to buy any other products, because I've already decided that the proposed changes are too big for me. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 02:47:35
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Some of them, my friend. Only some.
But this happens with all the editions: all of them have things I like, and things I dislike. Really, the changes now appear to be greater than all...
With this in mind, I'll buy the 4th edition only to see how everything will be handled. After this, I think that I will make my choices: heh, if the new edition don't be of my taste, there are many old tomes to be purchased. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 05:02:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
With this in mind, I'll buy the 4th edition only to see how everything will be handled. After this, I think that I will make my choices: heh, if the new edition don't be of my taste, there are many old tomes to be purchased.
kinda sums up my feelings, too. I am in a wait and see mode. It has been pointed out by some that we haven't seen the books yet, so why worry. I just am not impressed by the material yet. I will probably buy the initial 4e books and FRCS, to see how much I like the rules, and possibly get into a Living Realms game. Maybe. If I can handle the rules. If I can accept what they have done to the setting. Lots of ifs here.
I have faith in the development staff mentioned before, just not in the direction that WotC is directing them to. Someone else mentioned the glass getting lower..... yep. But still, I will wait and see what is produced. I just am not optimistic about the direction it is headed and disappointed in the entire method the setting has been handled. |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
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Odysseus
Seeker
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 14:43:24
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The 100 years jump doesn't worry me too much. As I frequently run my Realms campaigns in historical years, or around historical events.
The points of light direction is not a direction I'd want to use in any realms game. If I wanted that I'd use another setting.
Also my impression of tomb of battle, which is described as the preview for class design in 4e, is somewhat anime. Which again is something I wouldn't want to use for a realms game.
So as other have posted. I'll wait and have a look. But I'm intending to buy the 3.5 realms books I havn't got yet, when they get cheap enough. |
“Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody’s power, that is not easy.” —Aristotle |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 15:11:59
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Faraer posted (up above) re. Ed's support for the "new" Realms:
"I'm not reasurred by that, since all it tells us is that he doesn't dislike the new Realms so much as to privately and publicly disavow them."
Yet Ed posted in his own Questions thread that for many questions, he "just doesn't KNOW" (his emphasis, not mine). Sounds like he's being kept in the dark more than is to his liking, at the very least.
Ed urged us all to "wait and see" before we get too upset, which is just helpful advice from a friend. He doesn't want us upset.
I'm not sure it equates to ringing support for what's happening. It must hurt like hell to watch characters and countries you worked so hard to bring to life smashed and swept away in a few sentences.
Come to think of it, isn't this the pain that Ed has told us several times El and the other Chosen feel? Hmm . . .
Blueblade |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 15:49:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
KJR, if anyone�s suggesting a division, it�s you.
I didn�t advocate the, �You�re not a true Realms fan if you don�t play 4E� idea in my post, nor does that idea follow from the points I made, nor is it something I'll accept out of anyone.
It�s painfully simple: I can�t see how Realms fans can decide now, two whole years beforehand, that they�re not going to by the 4E FRCS; itself a product not on the shelves and seen by exactly no one.
:::::::::
I can readily accept anyone looking through the 4E FRCS, deciding it�s not for them, then not buying it.
I can even grudgingly accept someone deciding not to by the new FRCS after reading reviews, or at least after having digested the future FR content that will inevitably appear on WoTC�s website (via Blogs, previews, etc...) prior to the 4E FRCS release.
But cutting one�s self off now? Doesn�t make sense to me.
:::::
Ed deserves a chance.
Eytan deserves a chance.
Brian (Cortijo) deserves a chance.
George deserves a chance.
Eric deserves a chance.
Bob deserves a chance.
Even Rich Baker deserves a chance.
And those of you ready to copout and jump ship now aren�t even going to give them one.
And that�s hugely disappointing.
Sanishiver,
I am not saying that I've decided to boycott FR -- I just noted that based on what little I've read about 4E and the future of the Realms so far, it *MIGHT* not be for me.
It's not that I don't have faith in Ed, Eric, Steven, George, Thomas, Eytan, Rich and the other designer who truly *love* the Realms. However, it's not yet in their hands, since *all* design for the future of the Realms is being done in-house (Rich may be the only guy that has any say in the matter at the moment). So, yes, all these people will do their best when they're assigned to FR projects, but before that happens, it's a whole different crowd laying the groundwork.
Note that it is very easy to dismiss the excerpt from 'The Orc King', but all it says is *CANON* Realmslore. I excluded Bob from the list above because I don't think he respects the 'feel' or the continuity of the Realms. All that he writes about in his novels *HAS* to be included in 4E FRCS and other upcoming accessories, although there may be things that our favourite designers may be able to 'patch' or eliminate from Canon completely. And even if we will see a return to the 'feel' that we've grown to love, there will be 'colleteral damage' because previously published lore *will* 'tie their hands' to some extent.
For example, I truly wish that the 'Triple C' (AKA Ku Klux Klan) will be killed to the last hood-wearing dwarf/elf/human, but I fear that they're there because orcs will probably be one of the 'Core Races'. And people apparently must be educated that not all orcs are bad or evil -- so, a racist organisation is needed to draw some parallels to RW and raise some sympathy towards orcs (who have traditionally been portrayed as evil) 
Let me give you a very concrete example: would you still watch your favorite TV show, if you heard that they've given some new writers a free hand to mess around with the script? How about if HBO announced somelike like "Oh, we have GREAT stuff coming out during the next season of 'LOST'! Our new writers thought it'd be cool if we leap a hundred years forward and all the former cast is dead of some virulent plague. Now we get to see what happens with their grand-grand-children after the plague is over! Don't worry -- it's still the same show, only better!". If you don't like 'Lost', apply that same line of reasoning to your own favourite TV or movie series. And yet, even if they announced that "Okay, we'll let the old guard write the script from now on!" -- would it feel the same? Would you still watch it, if you knew that no matter how good it will be, there will be holes that even your favourite writers can't patch or erase, because they are part of the 'offical history' in the series? |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
Edited by - Asgetrion on 15 Sep 2007 18:13:30 |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 17:03:55
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Insanely ironic that you mention LOST in your example, as they have done just that! (the season finale showed some of the survivors in the future, back in the 'normal' civilization... you see Jack as a boozer trying to hook back up with Kate, and she tells him "it's over Jack... we're through" or something like that... basically showing that Jack has deep regrets to have worked so hard to return to the normal civilization, that the island was perhaps the only place he truly felt alive and important (i.e. a leader) Now he's back at his old job, but his alcoholism is treathening to make him lose his medicine license, and all... he's a nobody now)
In short, if I draw a parallel with LOST, I agree that a post-apocalyptic time jump would really suck for the Realms. Why? like LOST, the Realms has a successful story going on, ripe with lose ends for the PCs (viewers) to tie, where they can feel important tying those loose ends. If in a fell swoop, you come and tell me, "Here's how the Realms will be in 100 years" then you've singlehandedly made my life as a DM worthless, as both the players and I now know that whatever we do in our games, it won't affect the Realms a single bit. At least with a slow year advancement (as we've seen since the FRCS) I can pace my games to be just behind or after most current events, "surfing the canon wave" so to speak, and make my players feel they're having an influence on the world and be the cause or have a hand in these canon events.
That's it for now. If the 100-year jump happens, I can see many people 'reverting to their own Realms', which I would hate to see, as this effectively becomes a dead setting. That, or (like I plan to do) switch my Realms-based campaign to a plane-hopping bonanza (some of my players like Planescape equally or more than the Realms, so plane-traveling would be my favored way to say "bye-bye Realms, it was nice") |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 17:28:39
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Isn't it interesting, we have several FR authorities on this board as well as others. WotC puts a little 'teaser' out and then sit back and watch the perfect storm. They are likely to have an outline for the game and the Realms going forward (4e is here to come anyway), but reading all this feedback, vitriol and all, gives them a clear indication of the 'established' fan-base's wishes. WotC might chose not to do anything with the feedback posted here and elsewhere, or they just might. 2 years to go before the publication of the new FRCS is a long way and things can change...
George, cheers! My cup is half-full too.
A hundred years is a whole lot of gaps of Realmslore to fill-in. It'll keep creative minds busy for a long, long time. And the situation is interesting, we'll have the the lore published since the dawn of the Realms in publication. Then a 'gap' followed by this 'dreaded' fresh-start. I don't believe the Masters of Realmslore have been in a better position yet, able to use 'what came before', 'what came after', add a little lore spinning, and voila, fresh Realmslore that can be used as 'historical' lore for those that play the 'new' Realms, or 'current' lore for those of us whose timeline doesn't move (including my current PbeM). |
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