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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 04:53:55
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| Generally, I'm fine with RSEs regardless of the level of talent involved, because after all is said and done, the Realms is still the Realms. But for something this big, in which we could be given what amounts to a brand new setting, I don't want to hear that Ed is just "involved". For me, he has to be the lead designer, the master architect. But that's just me. |
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 05:58:41
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I think that is a fantastic group for a brain trust. But 100 years?
I am beginning to think that this entire timeline jump was for the Living Realms. I have the impression that most scribes here have plenty of material from 1e/2e days and work that into their campaigns. A 100 year jump makes most of that material very obsolete. They can still game in that 100 year span or set their game whenever they want. Other gamers that don't use the Realms probably won't touch it because of their conceptions about the Realms (baggage). Read enworld and you'll see lots of comments like "this might make me look at the realms", "The Realms needed a reboot" or something. A few could purchase the book, but not enough.
But for the RPGA, it provides a clean slate. They can succeed in alienating many old-time Realms fans, and I doubt that bringing enough new ones may not cover those who leave. But they can require all RPGA members, if they want to play, to purchase the new book. |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 07:18:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
The negative of course being that it will split the fan base among those that move their campaigns forward 100 years and those that stay behind. It effectively killed Dragonlance as a campaign setting and I don’t wish the same fate on the Forgotten Realms.
A major jump ahead damaged the BattleTech universe, too. And that's a large part of why I fear this one.
I also fear the setting becoming something other than what we've all come to love (something else that happened with BTech). 3E has already established a move away from what we were used to; I fear if it goes any further, then we'll be looking at a similar setting, with the same logo, but nothing that we can recognize as the setting we once loved. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 07:21:07
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Oh, and one other thing. Many old time fans of the Realms wax nostalgic about when the Ol' Grey Box was released and we were given a Realms with lots of vague detail and broad brushstrokes - a place where individual DMs had lots of elbow room to put in their own stuff and adapt campaigns to suit personal desires. 20 years of products and novels have done much in some fans' eyes to whittle away this broadbased setting utility.
Isn't the 4E Realms likely a return to the state of affairs of the Ol' Grey Box? New, undetailed areas; areas that have been changed; new people to find out more about; new organisations; new ... well, lots of stuff.
If it was good enough in 1987, why isn't it good enough in 2008? You've got the option of the keeping your game in the old, super-detailed Realms or moving across to a new, less-detailed Realms (relatively speaking). Bit of a "best of both worlds" situation, isn't it?
Now I know why I consider myself a 'cup half-full'-type person.
-- George Krashos
Yeah, but there is a difference between "brand new setting" and "your old, beloved setting that's been twisted, folded, spindled and mutilated". I'm willing to give the new version a shot, but I fear that part of the reason for this jump is to effectively chuck established continuity out the window (a trend that none will deny was started in 3E). And, as important as the detail is, a reasonable amount of continuity has always been part of what's drawn me to the Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 11 Sep 2007 07:22:20 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 09:08:45
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Oh, and one other thing. Many old time fans of the Realms wax nostalgic about when the Ol' Grey Box was released and we were given a Realms with lots of vague detail and broad brushstrokes - a place where individual DMs had lots of elbow room to put in their own stuff and adapt campaigns to suit personal desires. 20 years of products and novels have done much in some fans' eyes to whittle away this broadbased setting utility.
Isn't the 4E Realms likely a return to the state of affairs of the Ol' Grey Box? New, undetailed areas; areas that have been changed; new people to find out more about; new organisations; new ... well, lots of stuff.
If it was good enough in 1987, why isn't it good enough in 2008? You've got the option of the keeping your game in the old, super-detailed Realms or moving across to a new, less-detailed Realms (relatively speaking). Bit of a "best of both worlds" situation, isn't it?
Now I know why I consider myself a 'cup half-full'-type person.
-- George Krashos
Well I am the kind of person who, when seeing that the glass is not half empty, will drink until it is.
One thing is the tone of the Gray box, but a reworking of the Realms as they were first presented will not bring that back. The Chaos wars didn't exactly rejuvenate Dragonlance and the Greyhawk wars divided people.
As I have trouble with most of the decisions made by other designers than Greenwood (there are some exceptions, but I am generalizing here) I have little hope that a large "shake-up" of the Realms will give me much satisfaction. With the people involved it might give me some interesting ideas, but there is no chance that I will move the game to that time period with myself as a DM. |
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Thauglor
Acolyte
Brazil
36 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 15:22:51
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I'm also one who's in this setting for the degree of detail involved. While I agree that time must move on and iconic NPCs might be retired one way or another from the Realms (death, disappearance, lichdom, godhood, etc.), the way advancing in time is done is the most important aspect of such a change. Altering the mood of the setting is ok, retiring a few (perhaps many) NPCs is ok, even including a RSE that doesn't change history may be ok.
However, and that's a big however, using a RSE solely to adjust the setting to a new marketing-oriented directive (including reasons for the new the core rules) is simply not acceptable. If a publisher is interested in gathering a new base of gamers, why not create a new world then. Trying to capitalize too much on a solid existing setting, may very well, as already posted many times here, divide gamers.
I repeat. I'm not at all against changes. I even think the idea of an Orc kingdom is past overdue. But a RSE the way it seems it is being planned... that I would loath. Of course, it is still all speculation and I know somethings will have to be changed, so I'll have to wait an see. If optimum consistency is maintained with past publications, historically speaking, I'm in for the new setting. If not... well... |
Edited by - Thauglor on 11 Sep 2007 15:24:50 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 16:41:31
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I like the idea of new rules, and I've learned to except setting changes and RSE's, but I fear a century-timejump spells doom for FR.
Lets us play THROUGH the Spellplague, and then maybe, just maybe, we'll be ready for another jump in 5e. Then we can get the post-Spellplague Realms that is so different. Changes must be made a little at a time for people to be comfortable with them.
Don't try and give us "New Coke", or everyone will start drinking Pepsi.
Maybe younger gamers will like it, who knows, but I thought that was what Eberron was for.
I wish the designers and the authors the best of luck with this endeavor - they are the only ones whose incomes are riding on this. As for me, I have enough RPG material to last me until the end of time. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Sep 2007 16:42:02 |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 23:32:09
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
But the truth of the matter is that Ed is still involved, Eric Boyd is still involved, Rich Baker is still involved, obviously Salvatore is still involved, and we've added new talent in Eytan, Paul Kemp, Lisa Smedman, and too many others to mention, not to mention the return of Steven Schend as an author. So not all of these folks may be writing the 4E FR, but most certainly several of them are involved. To me, that's a pretty good brain trust, emphasis on the trust. So not calling it the Realms strikes me as, well, odd. We've got a great core team who has been giving us some pretty amazing products (games and novels) in the last several years and I figure will continue to do so.
Plus, frankly, I've been chafing a bit for years that the Realms were wrapping up too many plot threads and having the good guys win too many battles, without opening enough new avenues for epic adventure. My players don't want to just fight gnoll raiders, they want to know their characters are heroes the world will remember. Those opportunities were drying up and those baddies that were left, like Fzoul, were seemingly too important to get whacked without totally messing with a canonical version of the Realms. So I say, let's bring on the points of light in the darkness. We can all make those points brighter.
First of all, anyone who dropped those Ku Klux Klan -guys (hoods and all) into canon Realmslore should be cut from the design team!  That kind of clumsy RW analogies/jokes are really not needed if WoTC intends to target adult gamers with 4E FR.
I can approve of the fact that you're listing many talented designers working on the new Realms, *but* I think that I've heard that *ALL* of the FR design (at the moment) is being done in-house. Thus, none of them will get to shape the Realms before the Status Quo/prevalent conditions have been laid down.
I frankly don't understand how those opportunities were 'drying up', since we've had so many RSEs lately that I have lost count! Besides, I never had any trouble with introducing completely new malicious (even high-level) villains or worthy causes in my campaigns. I rarely even used "prominent" FR villains, unless the PCs seeked them out. Monsters are still aplenty and more evil Zhentarim or Dragon Cult minions are recruited and trained every day.
One final note: I don't think I wish to run campaigns in "previously undetailed" regions if this means the Utter East, The Shaar or some other 'backyard' of the Realms. Since all my books will most likely become useless because of this 'time warp', I'd really like to have the same amount of new and updated lore about Cormyr, Sembia, the Dalelands, Waterdeep, the Sword Coast, The Western Heartlands (because that's where I and my players wish to play!) |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 23:44:41
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Honestly, I have the utmost respect for "our" Realms designers, and I'll also say that I can completely understand not wanting to give up on the Realms. For some of the people that have gotten a chance to shape the Realms personally, this would have to be like giving up on a child, or at the very least a work of art that you personally helped to shape.
That having been said, if the 4th edition Realms looks even remotely like it does in the prologue to The Orc King, then I have to say that this doesn't look or feel like the Realms that I've loved for twenty years. It may have some hints of the Realms, but it doesn't have the heart of the place that I loved.
Now, as Faraer pointed out, I'm not saying that the designers aren't talented enough to make a very entertaining campaign world. It may be a great setting, especially for those that have played D&D before. It may resonate with a lot of gamers, but it won't be the Realms, at least not in the way that I know them.
And to go just a wee bit more negative, I'm really tired of the feeling that if we wait through "just one more" product that is less and less "Realmsian" that the line will survive a little longer, and maybe the next product will be the one we have been waiting for. I honestly think that if we go into 4th edition buying FR products when we don't feel that our needs are being met, then we are just telling WOTC that all they need to do is to put a FR logo on the book and they have us. I'd rather teach them otherwise.
If you really are intersted in a "future" Realms that has little of the current hallmarks of the Realms, and you would rather have this than the current Realms, I'm not going to tell you that you are wrong for buying this book. On the other hand, perhaps this is the time to let WOTC know that they don't have an automatic sale just because they promise us that "Drizzt and Elminster are still there." |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 00:14:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Nicely put, KEJr
And if by this "teach WotC a lesson" tactic the FR line becomes a novel-only world - and let's not start the hoary old chestnut of "it would then revert to Ed and utopia beckons" line because his old contract states he gets to write a novel a year or it reverts - what have you gained?
From speaking personally to Ed he wants the fans to support the Realms, work with the setting, come up with their own FR homebrew, and continue to make it a living, breathing world. I don't see how a boycott or abandonment of FR products in 4E is going to do that.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 00:23:17
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No boycott George. If its not the Realms product that I want, I'm not buying it any longer. In all honestly, a line unsupported versus a line that no longer resembles the line I want to support aren't a lot different in my book.
And for what its worth I'll be playing a 3.5, pre 1385 DR campaign for as long as I can find players . . .
And I'll still buy pre 1385 DR products as well, including thing like the Grand History and any novels from that era that strike my fancy. |
Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 12 Sep 2007 00:28:04 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 00:47:02
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As there is no indication that Ed wants FR to revert to him and I am sure his contract does not give him the refusal right to write a novel as a way to cause it to revert, the whole idea of trying to cause reverting appears to be moot.
I suspect Ed enjoys the 20 cents (perhaps a little more) for each of his books sold, there however is a downside for fans that clearly is not being addressed at this time. As far as we know Ed has nothing to do with 4th FR (all in House right now) and even he might not like what occurs in the Realms. From things we are hearing about the Realms so far the only item that has any approval at all of changes we know of is an Orc nation. Other nations and citystates are wiped out, forces for good are mostly (if not totally) wiped out.
The Realms have had and continue to have support without the purchase of a Realm product. I am just confused as to why Ed might appear to want fans of an existing World to buy books of its colaspse. It sounds like buying tickets to watch a slow train wreck. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 01:27:14
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My thoughts are such...
One Ed is going to be brought into the design networks as he is the master of the Realms. If that happens I feel more safe even if the Orc King Scenerio was to occur.
Because Ed would create a balance even with the Chaos occuring, even muting some of it as well. The Spell Plague would be like any other plague with a higher chance of contracting with stronger magic as it is the only way to make wizards playable.
Even within the darkness there would be points of light. We still have months to figure things out.
I see one of the earliest hints either being October (10 months before launch) or March (6 months before launch). So we have either a month or five before information starts to trickle in. We can await that long for more in depth details then a prologue which could be a literary device.
Thoughts?
Edit: Also I think that Ed mentioned a more disturbing future of the realms when I asked him about going about a hundred years into the future in one of the Ask Ed threads. We might have to search it out... or we could just ask Kuje if he remembers it. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
Edited by - Foxhelm on 12 Sep 2007 01:31:01 |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 02:15:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
As far as we know Ed has nothing to do with 4th FR (all in House right now) and even he might not like what occurs in the Realms.
It was made clear at GenCon that Ed and Eric (Boyd) were aware of and had some say in shaping events for the last two years.
At the FR seminar Eric Boyd pointed out that the roots of the Spellplague were in previous FR lore, just as Ed made clear the Realms are a living, breathing world that must change with time (...as it always has, less those overly concerned with the current state of affairs forget).
With all due respect to Rich Baker and others inside WotC's walls, I doubt he or they came up with the links to prior lore that Eric was talking about. |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 02:33:11
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| I think I definitely will buy the 4E FR campaign book when it comes out. I'll reserve judgment about the new Realms until I've read most of the book. But it can't just hit some right notes and miss many others. It has to fly. Otherwise I'll lose interest, just as I have with many other slick, promising, but ultimately empty published settings in the past. |
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Kaysae
Acolyte
14 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 02:45:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
Edit: Also I think that Ed mentioned a more disturbing future of the realms when I asked him about going about a hundred years into the future in one of the Ask Ed threads. We might have to search it out... or we could just ask Kuje if he remembers it.
Not really "disturbing" per se, just a Realms he wouldn't want to see. Here is his far-future Realms reply.
quote:
Ed Greenwood - March 10, 2004
So let me just answer by saying what I'd do, if as DM I was setting up a far-future Realms campaign.
I see the Silver Marches and Waterdeep as both growing in size, wealth, and population, despite the batterings of orc hordes. I see certain critters (dragons) as being far rarer, thanks to reactions to the flights of dragons that cause an "exterminate on sight" attitude in many humans. I see strong surface dwarf and elf realms on the mainland, and the collapse of Thay into small, warring holds. I see Sembia trying to swallow both Westgate and the Dales, and failing to swallow Cormyr, which now has a large wealthy merchant class and overcrowding. I see Impiltur and Thesk and Aglarond also expanding, with much local lawlessness and warfare . . . and everywhere, I see powerful mages exterminated, and those who do have magic keeping a lower profile (adviser to throne rather than on throne, local healer and sage rather than local tyrant). I see many of the Chosen gone mad and weepingly imploring Mystra to slay them -- and in a few cases, I see Azuth stepping in with newly-picked Chosen to oversee rituals in which a new Chosen slays a willing old Chosen in a manner that allows subsumption of the Silver Fire and some memories (transfer from old to new). I see the memories changing the new Chosen and driving a few of them mad (the work of Shar?). I see fewer gods, and all of them having less power and influence, as general wealth and technology increases, and "the common folk" make praying increasingly a "say and do this for good luck on the way home, and then say and do this to this other god before bed" matter-of-fact affair rather than obeying priests to the death.
I see lots of new, small realms, and warfar between them.
And I'm not sure I'd want to see much more of a Realms like that, or play in them. Yet as I said at the outset, this is merely one possibility among literally thousands.
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 03:12:05
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Oh, and one other thing. Many old time fans of the Realms wax nostalgic about when the Ol' Grey Box was released and we were given a Realms with lots of vague detail and broad brushstrokes - a place where individual DMs had lots of elbow room to put in their own stuff and adapt campaigns to suit personal desires. 20 years of products and novels have done much in some fans' eyes to whittle away this broadbased setting utility.
Isn't the 4E Realms likely a return to the state of affairs of the Ol' Grey Box? New, undetailed areas; areas that have been changed; new people to find out more about; new organisations; new ... well, lots of stuff.
If it was good enough in 1987, why isn't it good enough in 2008? You've got the option of the keeping your game in the old, super-detailed Realms or moving across to a new, less-detailed Realms (relatively speaking). Bit of a "best of both worlds" situation, isn't it?
Now I know why I consider myself a 'cup half-full'-type person.
-- George Krashos
You're an awful salesman George... keep writing ok?
Says the knight, who finds it more than a little ironic to see the Great Krashos, the one who built an empire on Realmslore and Faerunian history facts, praising a post-apocalyptic Realmslore vacuum...  |
Edited by - Purple Dragon Knight on 12 Sep 2007 03:12:40 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 03:24:24
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PDK, my man, read the new excerpts for GHotR and see what I do with those vacuums. I love 'em.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 07:08:17
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
PDK, my man, read the new excerpts for GHotR and see what I do with those vacuums. I love 'em.
-- George Krashos
By the way, great work on that excerpt from GHotR, George! ('The Great Conflagration')  I can hardly wait to get my hands on this book...*ahem*, assuming that good ol' Al will let me read it! |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 08:59:56
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Thanks Asgetrion
I knew that if I used the magic word "Orcus", it would be met with incredible fan acclaim.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 09:06:40
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Nicely put, KEJr
And if by this "teach WotC a lesson" tactic the FR line becomes a novel-only world - and let's not start the hoary old chestnut of "it would then revert to Ed and utopia beckons" line because his old contract states he gets to write a novel a year or it reverts - what have you gained?
From speaking personally to Ed he wants the fans to support the Realms, work with the setting, come up with their own FR homebrew, and continue to make it a living, breathing world. I don't see how a boycott or abandonment of FR products in 4E is going to do that.
-- George Krashos
Its not so much about trying to influence the direction of the Realms as the simple fact that there is ( I am talking about me personally here of course ) a limit to brand loyalty. When I realise that I get more inspiration out of old He-Man episodes than I do from the evolving changes of the Realms it is time for me to evaluate the necessity of buying newer products. This has little to do with the quality of the products from an objective point of view, it is a matter of personal enjoyment. The Realms has given me many wonderful hours, but that does not change the fact that there is only two 3ed. products that I am truly satisfied with.
I would love the Realms to stay the way I like them. Now, I don't believe that this will happen, but neither does it mean that I have to support the changes out of loyalty. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 09:36:30
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George, I have absolutely no problem with the evolution of a world, it is, after all, necessary. What I do have a problem with is the lack of respect for the customer. The step from 2nd to 3rd edition was all in all a change of make-up which still allowed players and GMs alike to use the material from the olden days. With 4e, if I were to play at the new time (whenever that may be) all the books would basically become obsoletem which to me would mean a couple 1000 € wasted, a prospect I am naturally not very fond of. The Core Books and all the rules material will of course be replaced (provided I make the switch to 4e), the same as they have been back in 2000 and for the 1st edition players back in 1989, a necessary evil, but the entire existing source material?
There are things that are evolutionary, but I refuse to buy a new CD player, to use a nice metaphor, when that machine will not read the CDs I acquired over the last 18 years. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 15:58:39
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Well stated, Mace. And it nicely reflects my own viewpoints.
As someone who has supported the setting for 20 years, them doing something like this is like a clear message that the old guard fans are simply not wanted anymore. We helped the company get to the point they could do this, and this is their response. That's what is bugging the majority of us, more than anything else. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 17:44:51
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| It's really funny, in a tragic sort of way, that instead of fixing the rubbish a company has created all by themselves by not doing what the customers want, they basically screw the customers INSTEAD. What it boils down to, if I want to play the 4e Realms, all I can keep is my dice.... and not even those if I only play at my comp on the virtual game table. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 17:47:26
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| When you look at some of the adds from just a few years back...when Wizards said it was better to have some friends over and come together to play D&D instead of pretending to be an elf online, and the step they do now... sad... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 19:03:40
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George, are you asking us to buy it just because it says Forgotten Realms on the cover? 
I have stood by product lines (electronics, tools, etc...) for years faithfully, but if something better or more useful came along I would switch no problem. FR is a product, and like any other, if it doesn't please the demographic its aimed at it will fail, plain and simple.
I will buy the new 4e FRCS, and I hope everyone else does too, but if we don't like what we see we WILL move on. You can't expect people to buy something just because of the logo, can you?
The funny thing is, I've been seeing quite a bit of talk over at the WotC, Enworld, and other RPG boards about a fan-based continuation of the current setting, starting at 1385 DR. If that is done, and dozens of sites spring up, all more successful then the official game, then I can see WotC going after them with 'Cease and Desist' orders. This in turn will generate MORE negativity (like the entire Sarbreenar fiasco) and the rest of the loyal fans will find new homes. Then 6 months to a year later, WotC will do a turn-around and release 4.5 - "Classic" FR, but by then it will be too late.
I have to ask you, Alaundo and others, if FR 4e fails will this site still be here a year from now? If they dropped the product line, will WE continue to carry the torch? It's something we need to think about now, because a lot of people are already 'jumping ship', and I for one do not wish to see Candlekeep become a ghostown. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 19:16:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
George, are you asking us to buy it just because it says Forgotten Realms on the cover?
I have stood by product lines (electronics, tools, etc...) for years faithfully, but if something better or more useful came along I would switch no problem. FR is a product, and like any other, if it doesn't please the demographic its aimed at it will fail, plain and simple.
I will buy the new 4e FRCS, and I hope everyone else does too, but if we don't like what we see we WILL move on. You can't expect people to buy something just because of the logo, can you?
The funny thing is, I've been seeing quite a bit of talk over at the WotC, Enworld, and other RPG boards about a fan-based continuation of the current setting, starting at 1385 DR. If that is done, and dozens of sites spring up, all more successful then the official game, then I can see WotC going after them with 'Cease and Desist' orders. This in turn will generate MORE negativity (like the entire Sarbreenar fiasco) and the rest of the loyal fans will find new homes. Then 6 months to a year later, WotC will do a turn-around and release 4.5 - "Classic" FR, but by then it will be too late.
I have to ask you, Alaundo and others, if FR 4e fails will this site still be here a year from now? If they dropped the product line, will WE continue to carry the torch? It's something we need to think about now, because a lot of people are already 'jumping ship', and I for one do not wish to see Candlekeep become a ghostown.
Maybe Drizzt will wake up and it has all been a bad dream shared by the people of the Realms and caused by Banes evil powers. The year is 1357 and the priests of Bhaal are plotting against Azoun, so hurry up heroes.
No? Didn't think so. |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 19:29:29
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Thanks Asgetrion
I knew that if I used the magic word "Orcus", it would be met with incredible fan acclaim.
-- George Krashos
We are grateful - me and all the other cultists ("Sshh, Victor, let me do the talking or Alaundo will hear us... and put your mask back on!")
Yet it was the overall quality which actually led me to expect the letters "EG" at the end of that piece of text - it was that good! (and I don't give praise lightly - especially now that Alaundo has increased my duties in the library!)
It is my heartfelt wish that you, Eric, Steven and Ed (along with Thomas and Eytan, of course) will have more input in the 4E Forgotten Realms decision-making process and brainstorming sessions. I have to agree with Wooly, Mace and Knight (and others) about not buying into the 4E Realms if it doesn't feel like the place I've grown to love. Change is one thing, but disrespecting old and loyal customers while catering solely to new and younger ones is completely another. Yet we will eventually see how this turns out, but the excerpt from 'The Orc King' was an alarm signal that made me feel that we'll end up with some sort of 'post-apocalyptic' Points of Light Faerûn, which may be wilder and more dangerous than ever before, but has simply changed too much for my taste. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
Edited by - Asgetrion on 12 Sep 2007 19:30:22 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 21:10:18
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Let's get happy and enjoy the ride - nothing good can come of all this doom and gloom.
I've found that I'm much happier, overall, when I accept what my true feelings are without trying to "fake it". People aren't going to change their opinions simply because someone else thinks they should. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 12 Sep 2007 21:15:40 |
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D&D 4e Discussion Scroll
