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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Sep 2007 : 10:20:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
I'll stop buying FR game products the moment 4e is released, novels will still come and I read them and do my own thing with the campaign world, not that I've done anything else...ever.
Harsh words, ideed. However, this idea has crossed my mind multible times in the past month, starting with the deaths of 2 major magicians from Waterdeep (that I both held especially dear to MY realms) and esp. since the 4E release countdown.
It will most certainly hold true for me in relation to the core D&D products. However, I might be convinced to buy FR products if they seem decent and the FR still realmish.
Edit note:
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
I've been a little out of the loop recently, newborn baby and all which that happy event entails. Any chance somebody can give me a quick account of how debate has gone on this 18 page scroll?
For summing up this thread I am not the right person as i have only scanned this thread myelf every now and than....but I think what KEJR said holds true. Anyhow, my congrats to the birth of your child. Alles erdenklich Gute! 
Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 03 Sep 2007 10:52:27 |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2007 : 10:53:51
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I'm very much looking forward to 4e now. I love changes. I love the Realms. I've been adventuring in (and running campaigns in) Faerun since the old grey box. Nothing I've read or heard about 4e and the changes that will be brought to the Realms will divert me from continuing to follow developments in Waterdeep and beyond.
I'm genuinely excited by the possibilities of a major shake-up. I "lived through" the Time of Troubles, and was excited by that too. It's big changes like we all expect are coming and the potential that they would bring that really fire my imagination, and the game and the world we all love is all about imagination.
I guess I don't have the sentimental (that sounds condescending but I don't mean it to be) attachment that many people have to certain areas of the Realms that they would rather were left unchanged. This may be because MY campaigns are set in MY realms and if I don't like something I change it myself. I admire a DM who can run and maintain a campaign that is pure canon, although I would think these DMs were very few.
You can guarantee that I'll be starting a 4e campaign as soon as humanly possible, and if we don't like the mechanics, we'll probably go back to 3.5, but I'm definitely going to give it a try.
I seem to have digressed somewhat, but basically: 4e Realms? By Sune's Bosom! Yes please!
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2007 : 18:59:05
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I was looking forward to 4e as well. Many of my house rules appeared when the game went from 1e to 2e, and then about 90% of them saw implementation with 3e. I figure they just broke into my house again for that last 10%. 
Seriously though, as much as I don't mind seeing a 4e rules edition, I'm having major trepeditions about 4e Realms. I didn't mind the ten year thing at all, because it will still be recognizable, but if there is ANY truth to the rumors that the timeline is being advanced a century then I am just floored. Everything could change...
The only good thing I see coming out of that is a Realms closer to Ed's original vision. Do you guys remember 'The North' being a scarey place back in 1e? How about Impiltur before they wedged Vassa and Damara onto the map? These and other regions fit the 'Points of Light' setting they are going for - turning the clock back (or forward, in this case) to a less civilised point in time seems more in keeping with Ed's vision of the Realms - you couldn't just stroll from one town to another without an armed escort. Adventurers weren't just oddities, they were NECESSITIES.
So, if Ed's onboard, maybe we will see a world that is more like his original. That is the one desperate thing I'm clinging to at this point. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2007 : 19:03:44
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Well, from what I have seen there is very little information that points toward the hundred year jump, except for some loose rumours. I am a bit sceptical to that one myself, but I have been wrong more than once.
As for it being more like Eds original version. I am not that optimistic. |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2007 : 19:11:50
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| I can't imagine a (real) world where WOTC would think it a good idea to advance the Realms 100 years. I give those rumours no credence whatsoever. |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2007 : 20:04:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So, if Ed's onboard, maybe we will see a world that is more like his original. That is the one desperate thing I'm clinging to at this point.
Me too ! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2007 : 00:13:35
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For those who were debating about converting 3/3.5e chars to 4e.
James Wyatt's new post in his journal.
"But I still want to tell you about my D&D game yesterday. Can I tell you about my character?
I'm playing Travic—a paladin of a race that I don't think has been officially announced yet. He is not your run-of-the-mill goody-goody paladin. He swings a greatsword and lays the smite down on whoever he happens to be fighting against—demons are good, but any creepy monster will do in a pinch.
A couple of relevant issues dovetail in this character: character role and character conversion.
So this is a game Andy Collins has been running for . . . oh, nine levels now, playing once a month. Last month we finally took the plunge and converted over to 4e. So each of us took a look at our 8th-level characters and decided whether to attempt a conversion or create a new character from scratch.
Most of us converted. Now, I think Rob talked about this in his video interview, and we said it several times at GenCon: You can't really just convert a character directly from 3e to 4e. We pretended you could do that from 2e to 3e, but that conversion book was pretty well bogus. The fact is, as I explained it a lot at GenCon, that your character isn't what's on your character sheet: your character is the guy in your head. The character sheet is how the guy in your head interacts with the rules of the game. The rules of the game are different, so you'll be creating a new implementation of that character, but the character needn't change much. In fact, I propose that in 4e your character might actually be truer to your vision of him than in 3e. You might finally see her doing all the cool things you imagined her doing but that never quite came out on the 3e table.
So Corwyn, our human knight, became a human fighter. His player said yesterday that the character was informed by some of the features of the knight class, but that as a 4e fighter he was a better expression of what he'd wanted the character to be. (The fighter and the paladin pretty well ganged up on the poor knight and divvied his stuff between them.)
Zurio, the illumian spellthief, became a multiclassed half-elf rogue/wizard. His player, too, felt strongly that this multiclass combination was a better expression of what he'd wanted out of the spellthief class than anything in 3e, which actually was a huge relief to me—I'd been a little concerned about whether our multiclassing system was going to work. As to the race, well, here's some shocking news: the illumian won't appear in the first PH. Sorry. But half-elf was a good fit for this multiclass character.
Leroy, the mongrelfolk ranger, became a ranger of another race I can't recall at the moment. (He wasn't at the game yesterday—that's my feeble excuse.) Once again, sorry to have to break the news to the mongrelfolk fans. But the ranger fans should be quite pleased.
That left Larissa and Aash. Larissa was a catfolk druid who was more of an archer than a spellcaster (thanks to that level adjustment). Her player decided to start from scratch with a dwarf cleric. Aash was my xeph swordsage. That wasn't a concept that would be easy to translate at this point in the game's design.
And here's where we get into roles. In 4e terms, our previous party consisted of:
- The knight, a front-line kind of guy
- A ranger, a spellthief, a warlock (who has stepped out of the campaign for a while), a swordsage, and an archer druid, all sort of doing the single-target, high-damage job.
- A couple wands of cure X wounds, which served as the party healer.
Now we have this:
- Knight and paladin holding the front line
- Ranger and rogue/wizard in the high-damage role, with the ex-spellthief doing some AoE stuff mixed in.
- Cleric doing the clericky thing.
The interesting thing is that both the fighter and the paladin are greatsword wielders, giving up some AC (a shield) in exchange for more damage, and thus leaning a bit toward the higher-damage role. All of which is to say, again, that the roles aren't there as straightjackets, but to help you build a party that'll work well together. We were still playing the fighter and paladin we wanted to play, filling our role in different ways while kickin' monster butt with our greatswords.
Huh. Our cleric wasn't there yesterday, and we did just fine. Go figure.
I feel like there was more I was going to talk about, but I forgot." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2007 : 07:23:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Maybe points of light is more akin to Ironforge and Stormwind in WOW, at least it sounds more like it to me. And maybe you can travel froom one point of light to another point of light by griffon so that trade can still be maintained, and to get from PoL A to PoL B in the first place you have to have a certain amount of levels under your belt before you can reach the trainer who can teach you how to communicate with the griffonmaster who then sends you on your way.
Or maybe you just have to wait to complete your O.W.L.'s then learn to disapparate!
Viel Dank, Ergdusch. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 04 Sep 2007 07:28:12 |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1073 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2007 : 16:17:22
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I had a conversation with a man (The owner) at my local D&D game store, and got some information that could be interesting fore you to know off.
He had just come home from the Gencon and told me that the 4 edition as he understood it was a large change in the rules fore all games –Forgotten Realms – Grey Hawk, Ebboron and other kinds of D&D games. As he did see it, they were going to use some off the same rules from the open game system, and these rules should be the same fore all games, so that there would be no change if character decided to travel to other worlds. This would also mean that when a book is published fore another world it could easily be used in the realms fore example.
The open game system can also - and is used in some live role-playing games but there will be some changes.
The Spellplague in Forgotten realms is a change to the realms so that the open game system gives meaning, and fore many monsters (from monster manual) to have a reason to be in the realms, some examples of this is Living spell – (Half golem/ Warforged ) and shifters.
The races would have different favoured enemies so we can’t expect that dwarfs hate orcks. These changes have bin made a little in 3.5 Forgotten Realms, some dwarfs have a +1 on Giants not orcks.
The use of magic would also change to fit into the realms.
This is what he could get out off the conversation he had at the Gencon, he didn’t want to tell me who he had talked to so nothing of this is official.
I personally don’t like this idear.
Vic
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Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571
Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047
Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1 |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2007 : 22:12:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Seriously though, as much as I don't mind seeing a 4e rules edition, I'm having major trepeditions about 4e Realms.
I think that's what is causing most concern to people here - whether you play the new edition (or even if you play at all rather than just enjoying the Realms for its own sake) is less important than what changes the rules and the design might bring to Faerûn. I'm not optimistic about seeing the Realms go back to 'Ed's Realms', but I know he will always try and spin as much lore as he can. I am, however, going to try and look at things with an open mind and not worry so much about what is currently mostly rumour and conjecture. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Thauglor
Acolyte
Brazil
36 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2007 : 05:56:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
(snip) ...these rules should be the same fore all games, so that there would be no change if character decided to travel to other worlds. This would also mean that when a book is published fore another world it could easily be used in the realms fore example.
Hmm... if by travel you mean travel OOC I see no problems with travelling to other worlds... however if travel is IC we may be in a crash course of world cultures. Besides not all worlds can be reached by plane travel, a few being in isolated planes or pockets of planes, e.g., Athas and Eberron. Changing that would alter irreversibly the characteristics that make each of these realms appealing to a wide variety of gamers.
Applying one setting's rules into another makes sense solely in terms of core rules. But it would be a crime if a setting's culture changed the colour and flavour of another by way of real world market needs. How can one possibly think of Audarian regionalisms being applied to, for example, Calimsham or Waterdeep, or any of the city-states of Tyr, or any other world for that matter. FR, especially, would suffer dearly since it holds one of the riches (if not the richest) canon lore in all known realms.
quote:
The Spellplague in Forgotten realms is a change to the realms so that the open game system gives meaning, and fore many monsters (from monster manual) to have a reason to be in the realms, some examples of this is Living spell – (Half golem/ Warforged ) and shifters.
Absolutely scary! If such a thing happens, a really large part of the flavour of each world will be lost forever. I don't want to sound fatalistic but, IMHO, such a change would be so profound that it wouldn't matter anymore which world we'd game in. They would all be open to mostly the same social changes. Can you imagine the Shades being responsible for Cyre turning into the Mournland? (Oops! That was still a secret, wasn't it?)
quote:
The use of magic would also change to fit into the realms.
This part seems somewhat natural since the store owner was probably talking about rules only. It's expected that 4th Ed. will change magic handling a lot. It must still be considered with deep, long care, for the risk of condemning FR to the limbo is great.
I fail to believe that such nonsensical course of action as changing things so much they'd all look the same would be chosen by the publishers. Still, as I said before, let us pray for as much sense as possible in their minds and souls. And wait. |
Thauglor
King of the Forest Country and RPGA Master GM
"And in this land I'll proudly stand
Until my dying day, sir;
For whate'er king o'er all command,
I'll still be a Cormyte brave, sir."
The Cormyte's Boast
Master Bard Chantalas |
Edited by - Thauglor on 05 Sep 2007 06:38:30 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11808 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2007 : 16:45:45
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I just finished perusing over expedition to undermountain (i.e. I read it closely enough to get the general gist of the flow of things.... and I couldn't believe this was for lvl 10 and under.... sheesh that should have been an epic module with more powerful stuff). Anyway, putting a little spoiler space.
In it (as pretty much I bet we all have heard) Halaster is killed performing a magical ritual trying to prevent that basically sounds like the spells of Undermountain begin failing. This would seem to me that Waterdeep is going to collapse into the earth. When? I have no clue, but I would SPECULATE that this is going to be one of the things that happens in 4e? It would make for an interesting new adventure area as the creatures take over the collapsed surface. It would also upset some players. Does this seem like the path things are going to anyone else?
Granted, I know some will say that speculating like this does no good, I also believe that speculation is part of the way that we report to the designers what we do or do not like. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2007 : 17:00:21
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| Perhaps the most important thing for 4e FR to work is that they have to let Ed design it (if that is what he wants to do.) There are a great many other talented voices in the Realms, but they all pale in importance to Ed's. |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1073 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2007 : 17:09:08
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I just finished perusing over expedition to undermountain (i.e. I read it closely enough to get the general gist of the flow of things.... and I couldn't believe this was for lvl 10 and under.... sheesh that should have been an epic module with more powerful stuff). Anyway, putting a little spoiler space.
In it (as pretty much I bet we all have heard) Halaster is killed performing a magical ritual trying to prevent that basically sounds like the spells of Undermountain begin failing. This would seem to me that Waterdeep is going to collapse into the earth. When? I have no clue, but I would SPECULATE that this is going to be one of the things that happens in 4e? It would make for an interesting new adventure area as the creatures take over the collapsed surface. It would also upset some players. Does this seem like the path things are going to anyone else?
Granted, I know some will say that speculating like this does no good, I also believe that speculation is part of the way that we report to the designers what we do or do not like.
sleyvas I can imagine that Waterdeep is going to collapse, not after they just made a new book concerning the city.
The module seams to be half finished (my opinion) maybe to protect some 4 edition material.
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Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571
Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047
Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1 |
Edited by - Victor_ograygor on 05 Sep 2007 17:09:36 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2007 : 20:02:24
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Who knows what they might do. What I think curious, however, is the fact that Halaster was able to cause some big time havoc in the nine hells in search for Elminster AND survive, just to be put out like a switch. It is as unexplained as the return of Bane.
But this scroll is about 4e in general... from what I've gathered it appears as if we might soon have a division between gamers, yet again. Those of us who play 3.x and those who play 4e (or 4.5 in 4 years).
Maybe we should just wait and see, AD&D ran from over 20 years, with 2nd edition basically being a facelift and a visit to the Betty Ford clinic for the system, only to drag it back into rehab after Wizards took over. Problem is: 3e and 3.5 took too many drugs as well, the game again blew out of proportion. It will be the same with 4e, which increases the needs for yet another edition. Hell, who knows, maybe the new designers will not be with Wizards a year after 4e's release.
There are more and more times when I look back at ye old WEG Star Wars system and, despite some flaws in the game, smile because it was so bloody simple, and expansions were not a new rule every other page or so.
Does D&D need an entire overhaul? Nope.
Does it need some modifications so that I can pit two groups of 4 5th lvl characters against each other without the internal mechanism screaming FOUL? Yup.
1st to 2nd edition, 100% compatible. 2nd to 3rd... well, the monsters do have the same names etc. 3e to 4e...the succubus is a devil????????? Shja....right! |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11808 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2007 : 20:27:16
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>>sleyvas I can imagine that Waterdeep is going to collapse, not >>after they just made a new book concerning the city.
>>The module seams to be half finished (my opinion) maybe to protect >>some 4 edition material.
Actually, it was in that brand new book that I heard of the spell that was holding Waterdeep in place. It may have been noted in some previous lore though... my sagery is more Easterly. Anyway, if that was indeed the first spot that its noted and they've been planning for 4e for the last year or so.......
I'm not saying that's what is going to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. The module even goes to lengths to point out the fact that if things go bad below that the city above will suffer. Almost preparatory.
As to the module being half finished.... yep, it was definitely that. I see it more as "hey, lets give the general overview of Undermountain so that people have an idea of what's on what levels". So, in some ways, I see it as a sourcebook that they wanted to include an adventure with. Of course, the fact that the adventure revolves around everything they've just detailed getting destroyed without any real details was kind of weird.
The most interesting part to me was the person who transformed themselves into a sentient living spell (wish) and is also a sorceror 19th lvl. I mean, it sounds pretty powerful, until you realize it should have to expend 5000 xp each time it uses its power as a living spell. That plus, the template of a living spell is only supposed to be able to duplicate a spell that has an area or effect (no targeted effects <and most wish effects are targeted>, nor any that create creatures like summon monster... and I know somewhere recently in a realms module I saw a living spell that did summon monster).
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2007 : 20:31:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
3e to 4e...the succubus is a devil????????? Shja....right!
Okay, so far, this is the one 4E change we've heard about that doesn't bother me in the slightest... But then again, I don't care much about the Lower Planes, and I've always preferred the tanar'ri and baatezu labels, anyway -- it's easier for me to keep them straight, it avoids the real world religious connotations, and it simply sounds both cooler and more foreign. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11808 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2007 : 20:50:34
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| I do see the idea behind making the devils the more humanoid'ish beings and the demons being the weird monstrosities. The question I have is will devils embody law still, because succubus' are far from lawful. Of course, that would all depend on whether there still is a law/chaos thing in 4e. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 01:09:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The prospect of something like that happening to the Realms worries me greatly. Even the thought of that kind of change has me pondering my continued following of the setting. I won't make any decisions until I actually have the first couple of products in my hand, but it is a possibility I'd have never considered even a month ago.
Giant Space Hamster, I hear you. My feelings are the same, exactly... it's like someone, somehow, got a hold of the place where I hold things sacred in my mind, and gave it a few good left hooks. I don't like this sudden uncertainty I have for the Realms. As I have harped many a time before, I couldn't care less where the Core D&D goes, but to touch the Realms in such unappropriate ways... I gag. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 01:14:20
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quote:
Originally posted by KujeOne quick point of clarification I'd like to make... Don't assume that we're going to apply the 'Points of Light' conceit to existing campaign worlds. I think Realms and Eberron would prosper if they got just a little more points-of-lightish, but we're not going to overthrow worlds with that much breadth and history.
What are these points of light he's seeing? did someone drop an anvil on his head?  |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 01:24:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
I've been a little out of the loop recently, newborn baby and all which that happy event entails. Any chance somebody can give me a quick account of how debate has gone on this 18 page scroll?
Congrats on the little one, Kiaransalyn! On a related matter, my wife is now officially pregnant, with our little firstborn due towards the end of March!  I have been with my better half for seven years now, so this will certainly change some of our old habits and routine-like lifestyle we had gotten accustomed to!   |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 17:08:13
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Sorry, I was away from the boards for many months (which is why I am a little ignorant in this question) and don't have time to shuffle through to find out about this (at work, break time is short), but figure I could ask about it here as it is somewhat relevant.
Wasn't Paul Kemp supposed to write a new Erevis Cale trilogy that had a RSE occuring??? What is the status of that and could it have been cancelled to instead make the 4E RSE???? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
Edited by - Alisttair on 06 Sep 2007 17:09:30 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 19:20:15
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Everything that follows is pure conjecture, so take it with a grain of salt.
What I have been doing (and I'm sure many of you have in your own way) have been picking through all the rumors, the information provided at Gencon, and the various postings on designer's and author's websites. By using a tried and true technique of 'Sherlockery', we can put everything through a sifter and just pull out the common points so we can get something akin to whats really going on. Even the slightest 'mis-phrasage' could be a Freudian slip, so everything is pertinent.
From what I can see, I think the Silver Marches is a goner. It is the anti-thesis to the 'points of light' they are going for. The poor kingdom was ill-fated right from the beginning, when they choose an in-pronouncable name for the place (Luruar). From what little has been released about The Orc King, we know Drizzt and Mithral Hall survive into 4e, but we don't know about the surrounding area. Since the book appears to be about Obould (from the title), obviously he will play a major part in what will become of the North in the future, be it ten years or a hundred.
I have NO clue what will happen to Luruar, but I have a feeling it won't be caused by Obould. In fact, and this is just my opinion, I think Obould might actually try to help against whatever RSE will be involved in 4e. Just a guess, but it is based on his plans at the end of the trilogy (an Orc Kingdom co-existing side-by-side with human ones). My best guess is either Shade attacks and destroys Silvery Moon, or the Spellplague wreaks untold havoc. Now, moving on to the rest of the North...
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
sleyvas I can imagine that Waterdeep is going to collapse, not after they just made a new book concerning the city.
The module seams to be half finished (my opinion) maybe to protect some 4 edition material.
I agree... to a point. I was discussing this over at the WotC boards, and it seems there was a major problem with both Undermountain and Waterdeep - they are both very recent products detailing MAJOR campaign areas that are interconnected, yet NONE of that interconnectivity was touched upon in either product! That is either a BIG mistake (unlikely), or rather a lead-in to a connecting product (module?) that will cover all of the connections between the two. Since it has already been hinted at in a major way that Undermountain has some elements relating to the the 4e RSE (Spellplague), one can assume that any adventure connecting the two will be tied into that plot-hook.
About the destruction of Waterdeep - In order to move forward the 'Points-of-Light' theme, the major centers of civilization will ALL have to take a beating. I don't think Waterdeep will just 'fall-in' to the earth, but I do think that SOMETHING major will occur to make the place more 'adventure-worthy' to the combat-oriented crowd. My personal guess on this - Waterdeep with a HUGE gaping hole in the middle, leading to a pit of unparraleled evil. Just a hunch - but it would go a long way to explain why the designers 'forgot' to discuss the connections in either of the recent products. There was no need, if the connection is going to change dramatically in some way REAL soon.
Those are just a few of my thoughts, and just about the North, but I think they want to return that area to a monster-filled no-man's land like it mostly was in 1e.
And, like always, I could be WAY off base here. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 19:54:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Hmmm....judging from this : http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070905a
Myth Drannor, Evermeet, Evereska, Lamruil's realm, and the newly reborn secret elven center (forgot the name) would all get the axe, since the Core books' races will be the only ones there, if I understand the principle correctly...
The URL requires regerstation for those that can not login.
In short it however appears to redefine what Elves are, all are Fey but Wild elves more used to dealing with humans, orcs, etc. thus more huminiod like.
Hard to say how this would carry over to realms though, or for that matter the article is set in stone. Designers keep repeating that Design is changing after play tests. I suspect there is also watching reaction to the idea of NDA core races. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 06 Sep 2007 19:56:08 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 20:35:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Everything that follows is pure conjecture, so take it with a grain of salt.
What I have been doing (and I'm sure many of you have in your own way) have been picking through all the rumors, the information provided at Gencon, and the various postings on designer's and author's websites. By using a tried and true technique of 'Sherlockery', we can put everything through a sifter and just pull out the common points so we can get something akin to whats really going on. Even the slightest 'mis-phrasage' could be a Freudian slip, so everything is pertinent.
From what I can see, I think the Silver Marches is a goner. It is the anti-thesis to the 'points of light' they are going for. The poor kingdom was ill-fated right from the beginning, when they choose an in-pronouncable name for the place (Luruar). From what little has been released about The Orc King, we know Drizzt and Mithral Hall survive into 4e, but we don't know about the surrounding area. Since the book appears to be about Obould (from the title), obviously he will play a major part in what will become of the North in the future, be it ten years or a hundred.
I have NO clue what will happen to Luruar, but I have a feeling it won't be caused by Obould. In fact, and this is just my opinion, I think Obould might actually try to help against whatever RSE will be involved in 4e. Just a guess, but it is based on his plans at the end of the trilogy (an Orc Kingdom co-existing side-by-side with human ones). My best guess is either Shade attacks and destroys Silvery Moon, or the Spellplague wreaks untold havoc. Now, moving on to the rest of the North...
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
sleyvas I can imagine that Waterdeep is going to collapse, not after they just made a new book concerning the city.
The module seams to be half finished (my opinion) maybe to protect some 4 edition material.
I agree... to a point. I was discussing this over at the WotC boards, and it seems there was a major problem with both Undermountain and Waterdeep - they are both very recent products detailing MAJOR campaign areas that are interconnected, yet NONE of that interconnectivity was touched upon in either product! That is either a BIG mistake (unlikely), or rather a lead-in to a connecting product (module?) that will cover all of the connections between the two. Since it has already been hinted at in a major way that Undermountain has some elements relating to the the 4e RSE (Spellplague), one can assume that any adventure connecting the two will be tied into that plot-hook.
About the destruction of Waterdeep - In order to move forward the 'Points-of-Light' theme, the major centers of civilization will ALL have to take a beating. I don't think Waterdeep will just 'fall-in' to the earth, but I do think that SOMETHING major will occur to make the place more 'adventure-worthy' to the combat-oriented crowd. My personal guess on this - Waterdeep with a HUGE gaping hole in the middle, leading to a pit of unparraleled evil. Just a hunch - but it would go a long way to explain why the designers 'forgot' to discuss the connections in either of the recent products. There was no need, if the connection is going to change dramatically in some way REAL soon.
Those are just a few of my thoughts, and just about the North, but I think they want to return that area to a monster-filled no-man's land like it mostly was in 1e.
And, like always, I could be WAY off base here.
I don't think the connections were discussed for two reasons: lack of room, and because the Undermountain book was generic. |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1073 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 20:54:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Everything that follows is pure conjecture, so take it with a grain of salt.
What I have been doing (and I'm sure many of you have in your own way) have been picking through all the rumors, the information provided at Gencon, and the various postings on designer's and author's websites. By using a tried and true technique of 'Sherlockery', we can put everything through a sifter and just pull out the common points so we can get something akin to whats really going on. Even the slightest 'mis-phrasage' could be a Freudian slip, so everything is pertinent.
From what I can see, I think the Silver Marches is a goner. It is the anti-thesis to the 'points of light' they are going for. The poor kingdom was ill-fated right from the beginning, when they choose an in-pronouncable name for the place (Luruar). From what little has been released about The Orc King, we know Drizzt and Mithral Hall survive into 4e, but we don't know about the surrounding area. Since the book appears to be about Obould (from the title), obviously he will play a major part in what will become of the North in the future, be it ten years or a hundred.
I have NO clue what will happen to Luruar, but I have a feeling it won't be caused by Obould. In fact, and this is just my opinion, I think Obould might actually try to help against whatever RSE will be involved in 4e. Just a guess, but it is based on his plans at the end of the trilogy (an Orc Kingdom co-existing side-by-side with human ones). My best guess is either Shade attacks and destroys Silvery Moon, or the Spellplague wreaks untold havoc. Now, moving on to the rest of the North...
quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
sleyvas I can imagine that Waterdeep is going to collapse, not after they just made a new book concerning the city.
The module seams to be half finished (my opinion) maybe to protect some 4 edition material.
I agree... to a point. I was discussing this over at the WotC boards, and it seems there was a major problem with both Undermountain and Waterdeep - they are both very recent products detailing MAJOR campaign areas that are interconnected, yet NONE of that interconnectivity was touched upon in either product! That is either a BIG mistake (unlikely), or rather a lead-in to a connecting product (module?) that will cover all of the connections between the two. Since it has already been hinted at in a major way that Undermountain has some elements relating to the the 4e RSE (Spellplague), one can assume that any adventure connecting the two will be tied into that plot-hook.
About the destruction of Waterdeep - In order to move forward the 'Points-of-Light' theme, the major centers of civilization will ALL have to take a beating. I don't think Waterdeep will just 'fall-in' to the earth, but I do think that SOMETHING major will occur to make the place more 'adventure-worthy' to the combat-oriented crowd. My personal guess on this - Waterdeep with a HUGE gaping hole in the middle, leading to a pit of unparraleled evil. Just a hunch - but it would go a long way to explain why the designers 'forgot' to discuss the connections in either of the recent products. There was no need, if the connection is going to change dramatically in some way REAL soon.
Those are just a few of my thoughts, and just about the North, but I think they want to return that area to a monster-filled no-man's land like it mostly was in 1e.
And, like always, I could be WAY off base here.
I don't think the connections were discussed for two reasons: lack of room, and because the Undermountain book was generic.
You must admit that it is a little strange that the adventure ended as it did Wooly Rupert.
It’s strange that a major character in the realms (my opinion) suddenly “dies” and without a proper explanation, and the module leaves it up to the player what should happen
Enough said we all have our opinion of undermountain
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Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
Links related to Forgotten Realms
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 21:18:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Hmmm....judging from this : http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070905a
Myth Drannor, Evermeet, Evereska, Lamruil's realm, and the newly reborn secret elven center (forgot the name) would all get the axe, since the Core books' races will be the only ones there, if I understand the principle correctly...
The URL requires regerstation for those that can not login.
In short it however appears to redefine what Elves are, all are Fey but Wild elves more used to dealing with humans, orcs, etc. thus more huminiod like.
Hard to say how this would carry over to realms though, or for that matter the article is set in stone. Designers keep repeating that Design is changing after play tests. I suspect there is also watching reaction to the idea of NDA core races.
It is possible that Moon and Sun Elves will become "Eladrins" & that Wood and Wild Elves would become "Elves", with Drow being a different type all together.
As said, it is early and first you have to codify the details for core then translate it into Forgotten Realmish.
That will take some work as well. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2007 : 22:59:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
You must admit that it is a little strange that the adventure ended as it did Wooly Rupert.
It’s strange that a major character in the realms (my opinion) suddenly “dies” and without a proper explanation, and the module leaves it up to the player what should happen
I was under the impression that it has already been revealed that Halaster died as he tried (and failed) to prevent the Spellplague? |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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D&D 4e Discussion Scroll
