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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Aug 2007 : 22:52:54
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Perhaps the best way to think of this is this:
A Succubus is a female fiendish porn star/stripper, who purpose is to use lust and sex to lure men and women into evil acts.
A Fury/Erinyes is a female fiend having a bad day hopped up on Male hormones (can spell the name of tertes...whatever) while having cliche PMS rage who hates the world and is given a chance and the power to dish it out to mortals, whether they deserve it or not!
Just a thought. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
Edited by - Foxhelm on 31 Aug 2007 22:56:14 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2007 : 23:02:02
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Also, as George commented at a few different places, the timeline jump is only speculation. There isn't solid proof that the timeline is only going to jump a decade, which Rich semi confirms.
"All that we've said officially is this: The last entry in the Grand History is set in 1385, the Year of Blue Fire.
From this remark many people have speculated about a timeline jump. More than that I am not at liberty to say right now, but I expect to be able to talk a little more about the "new" Realms in just a couple of weeks." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 00:26:01
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Wow. Looks like I got the date for the 4th-Edition FRCS completely wrong. I heard Year of Blue Fire (1385 DR) at Gen Con and naturally assumed that was the correct date. I still need time to think about the ramifications of a 100 year jump that I keep hearing around the Internet. Obviously I’m in the dark the same as most of you.  |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Brenigin
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
117 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 01:06:14
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There's no way they'll jump 100 years. Why would they? What makes a shared world like FR breathe is the characters. Jumping a century means losing almost all of them, bar a few elves and outsiders.
People are reading far, far too much into The Orc King. Salvatore's books have always had Drizzt's little paranthetical musings - this one just happens to be from far in the future. The epilogue of Final Gate was set in 1380 - it didn't precipitate an instant timeline jump. |
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sparhawk42
Learned Scribe
104 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 02:19:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Follow up post from Rich's WOTC journal.
One quick point of clarification I'd like to make... Don't assume that we're going to apply the 'Points of Light' conceit to existing campaign worlds. I think Realms and Eberron would prosper if they got just a little more points-of-lightish, but we're not going to overthrow worlds with that much breadth and history.
I feel a little silly asking but what does all the "Points of Light" stuff mean? |
You never fail until you stop trying. |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 02:34:15
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quote:
Originally posted by sparhawk42
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Follow up post from Rich's WOTC journal.
One quick point of clarification I'd like to make... Don't assume that we're going to apply the 'Points of Light' conceit to existing campaign worlds. I think Realms and Eberron would prosper if they got just a little more points-of-lightish, but we're not going to overthrow worlds with that much breadth and history.
I feel a little silly asking but what does all the "Points of Light" stuff mean?
Rich Baker explains this concept here
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War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
Aermhar of the Tangletrees
Year of the Hooded Falcon
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 02:38:26
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quote:
Originally posted by sparhawk42
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Follow up post from Rich's WOTC journal.
One quick point of clarification I'd like to make... Don't assume that we're going to apply the 'Points of Light' conceit to existing campaign worlds. I think Realms and Eberron would prosper if they got just a little more points-of-lightish, but we're not going to overthrow worlds with that much breadth and history.
I feel a little silly asking but what does all the "Points of Light" stuff mean?
Well he said the core/ non realm world / would be a place of limited pockets of light/order/safety typye of world. Much like _Keep on the Borderland_ (and BD&D) was presented. IOW only those brave enough and hopefully skilled as well would even considered traval from one safe haven to another, becauase safe havens are very far apart. No metrics were offered but I would not be surprised that a weeks travel or more would be require, though hostile lands, to reach a safe haven from the safe haven one started from. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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sparhawk42
Learned Scribe
104 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 02:42:27
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Okay, I understand now. Thanks!  |
You never fail until you stop trying. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 03:20:33
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| My thanks Xysma for answering Sparhawk's question. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 05:46:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Found this over on ENworld.
"Rich Baker has been working on the devils and demons in the new Monster Manual. Here's what he has to say:
- Devils are angels who rebelled. They rose up against the deity they served and murdered him. The crime of deicide is unimaginably perverse for angels, and hence devils were cursed and imprisoned in the Nine Hells.
- The Nine Hells are what became of the murdered deity's divine realm after his death. The Hells are the devils' prison, and it is difficult for them to get out without mortal aid.
- We've re-sorted demons and devils a bit, since we want these two categories of monsters to make a little more sense. Devils tend to be more humanoid in form, usually fight with weapons, and often wear armor. Most have horns, wings, and tails. One consequence of this: the erinyes and the succubus were holding down pretty similar territory, so we've decided that they're the same monster, called the succubus, and it's a devil.
- Ice devils don't look like other devils. We've decided that they are actually a demonic/yugoloth race... one that was entrapped by Mephistopheles long ago in an infernal contract. So ice devils hate other devils, retain their insect-like appearance, and have a special loyalty to Mephistopheles. It's one of the reasons why Asmodeus has never chosen to move against Mephistopheles. Asmodeus would of course win if he did, but that would let the ice devils out of their contract."
Would they QUIT messing with the outer planes for Asmo's sake?! Seriously? Not happy here.
*Deep Breath, vomit, Deep breath*
Okay, they're completely screwing with me. I've been a planar junkie for.... 15 years now. Would they quit saying "this doesn't fit?" Pretty please, with sugar on top? This is sooo not cool on their parts.
Asmo did not kill a deity, although he would certainly allow such a rumor to spread. And why can't Ice Devils be devils? Appearance alone? That is a stupid reason. They are all devils!
The more I see of this new edition, the less and less I'm liking it. The virtual game table looks great, but I don't know if I really like the lore changes, and I want a reason, not just "we thought they were the same" 'cause they are NOT the same. 
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 08:57:51
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| A little to the side of the main topic, but I am curious. I hadn't gotten myself onto the Internet at the time of the countdown to the 3rd ed. so I wonder, was there as much speculations then as now and how much of it came to be true? Is there more clear information given beforehand this time, more negative reactions from fans etc? |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 09:26:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
A little to the side of the main topic, but I am curious. I hadn't gotten myself onto the Internet at the time of the countdown to the 3rd ed. so I wonder, was there as much speculations then as now and how much of it came to be true? Is there more clear information given beforehand this time, more negative reactions from fans etc?
Hmm Eric Noah did colect souce information and rumors when 3rd was offered/coming soon. Perhaps started 6 months before official announcement, but not sure about that.
This time is different in that 4th is announced but no real facts are known about it. Even play testers appear not to know for sure what will be in first release.
I do expect that internet traffic is much higher this time around. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 10:45:32
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| I've been a little out of the loop recently, newborn baby and all which that happy event entails. Any chance somebody can give me a quick account of how debate has gone on this 18 page scroll? |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 15:53:22
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| Eh, a lot of its been just reporting little factoids that have popped up rather than really debating things too much. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 19:12:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
I've been a little out of the loop recently, newborn baby and all which that happy event entails. Any chance somebody can give me a quick account of how debate has gone on this 18 page scroll?
Well, I mostly post to say congratulations; but as to the discussion, it has been a general discussion of tidbits and rumours with each person expressing his and hers feelings about it. Both concerning the game and the Realms. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 19:34:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Hmm where did you get all this information about Spellplague ? Or are you doing pure speculation ?
The only official line I remember is from Rich Baker saying that no area is left untouched. This doesn't mean that any area is destroyed.
This was posted at Enworld, which in turn was taken directly from RAS's site -
quote:
Originally posted at http://www.rasalvatore.com
The prologue and epilogue of The Orc King are set 100 years into the future of the Realms. Drizzt mentions that the Spellplague has decimated the Sword Coast, but that Mithril Hall survived the worst of it, even though there was chaos and upheaval all around it.
It also mentions the Empire of Netheril.
It doesn't mention Silverymoon, Waterdeep, Baldur's Gate, the Lord's Alliance, the Silver Marches, or anything else "civilized" beyond Mithril Hall and the Empire of Netheril.
Mithril Hall was specifically mentioned as surviving, but not the Silver Marches, which I think is probably telling. Beyond that Rich Baker mentioned that his next set of novels is going to be based in the Moonsea region, and then mentioned his protagonist being from a very small town in that particular region, which seems to fit the "Points of Light." strategy.
Also, there was the very carefully worded comment when people thought that since the Spellplague takes place 10 years in the future that the setting would be starting 4th edition there, and the comment was . . . "no one has said the FRCS is set in 1385," which seems to back up the large jump forward in time.
Thats pretty scarey - RAS is writing the future of Faerûn, and everyone else will have to write future material with his 'history' in mind?
I could have dealt with a ten-year leap in time, since my game is set 15 years ahead anyway, but a hundred years is MAJOR! Maybe that's why you can't convert your characters - they're all dead!!! |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Sep 2007 19:35:50 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 19:48:01
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Okay, I'll phrase this fairly carefully here. If this does turn out to be the direction they are taking the Realms, I think its fairly telling that its in the Prologue/Epilogue. In other words, I don't think RAS determined to advance the timeline and came up with what happened, I think it might be that he was given some of the changes to highlight in some manner in this book to "preview" what may be on the way. So I don't think, if, and that is a big if, there is a time jump of this magnitude, that it was RAS idea nor that the wider ranging effects of the jump were his decision.
But its all conjecture at this point. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 23:05:21
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
But its all conjecture at this point.
And that's the most important note to remember. Thus far, we know nothing, for certain. It's a little premature to get worked up over a rumor that could very well prove to be wrong. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 01:33:41
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From the snippet I just read regarding Indiana Jones 4 and licensing it looks like Hasbro/Wizards will also release an Indy-RPG, probably the next vehicle for the new d20/4e system...
Oh yea, I wanna see a 4th level Nazi soldier....NOT! But maybe, just maybe, they will try to trademark the term "Nazi" again, like TSR did back in the 80s |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Thauglor
Acolyte
Brazil
36 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 03:29:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
But its all conjecture at this point.
And that's the most important note to remember. Thus far, we know nothing, for certain. It's a little premature to get worked up over a rumor that could very well prove to be wrong.
I completely agree with you both that it may well be pure speculation. So much is left unsaid that we can only wait and ponder.
Still, I feel this debate might (a very small might, actually) somehow come to the eyes and ears of the powers that be and help them design the future of Faerun as we, the players, would like to see it.
Hope is for fools, I know but... it dies last. |
Thauglor
King of the Forest Country and RPGA Master GM
"And in this land I'll proudly stand
Until my dying day, sir;
For whate'er king o'er all command,
I'll still be a Cormyte brave, sir."
The Cormyte's Boast
Master Bard Chantalas |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 04:39:10
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http://p197.ezboard.com/frasalvatoreforumsfrm23.showMessage?topicID=1.topic
[quote} I usually don't read spoilers, but this was plastered on the EN World front page and I was reading the story before I even realized what it was. So here it is for those who want to see. Major spoilers ahead. This is being cited as a RUMOR.
show spoiler
The prologue and epilogue of The Orc King are set 100 years into the future of the Realms. ....[/quote]
I found nothing on RAS' site to indicate this is true, the quote comes from messageboard RAS appears to endrose. A better cite should be provided before there is fear of 100 year jump. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 06:19:13
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| The more I think about the "points of light" concept, it makes sense for the generic, core D&D rules. You've got a few heroes, a bunch of monsters, and not much else. However, for those of us that want to adventure in an established setting, they've got the Realms, Eberron, and from what I have gathered some of the other settings will get attention as well. To me, it makes sense from a business perspective to not "overthrow worlds with that much breadth and history" because they can appeal to a wider variety of gamers. If you just want to fight monsters in a generic dungeon or use the core rules to make your own setting, you can stick with the core D&D books. If you want to adventure in a richly detailed setting, go with the Forgotten Realms. You don't like the Realms? Okay, try Eberron, it's got a different flavor. |
War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
Aermhar of the Tangletrees
Year of the Hooded Falcon
Xysma's Gallery
Guide to the Tomes and Tales of the Realms download from Candlekeep
Anthologies and Tales Overviews
Check out my custom action figures, hand-painted miniatures, gaming products, and other stuff on eBay.
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Thauglor
Acolyte
Brazil
36 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 07:26:32
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Agreed. When "core D&D rules" mean plain rules with no setting, the idea of "points of light" is quite interesting. It would be easily applied to a number of alternative settings. I even see it a perfect perspective for the Warhammer Fantasy setting.
However, for the most basic and structured settings of the D20 system it could create unnecessary chaos. Even to Greyhawk, which is core (and subject to cataclisms) I fail to see the concept applied that easily. Darksun need not incorporate the idea, since it seems the concept has originated there in the first place. After all, Athas is already a showcase of "points of light". Planescape may also accept the concept without much ado. But shaking Forgotten Realms that much in the blink of Gruumsh's eye? With all it's inherent history? It sounds very unlikely, to say the least. On the other hand, perhaps it's time the setting becomes accountable for its own name and finally becomes "forgotten". Concerning Eberron, it's a world in full renaissantist development. Are they to throw all that away with a global cataclism (like the one who turned Cyre into the Mournland) just to create more "points of light"? It makes no sense to me.
Then again, this is still plain and simple speculation. I crave for more info. |
Thauglor
King of the Forest Country and RPGA Master GM
"And in this land I'll proudly stand
Until my dying day, sir;
For whate'er king o'er all command,
I'll still be a Cormyte brave, sir."
The Cormyte's Boast
Master Bard Chantalas |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 13:05:25
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Thank you all for the update and THANK YOU Jorkens for your congratulations. 
As regards the Spell Plague and the Realms-wide destruction, I can't see that wiping the slate clean will really be greeted with enthusiasm by many current aficionados of the Realms. Hasn't this strategy been tried out in DragonLance already? The inhabitants of Kryn must be the only civilisation with a Cataclysm report. Whereas we check the weather they check if the next Cataclysm is upon them yet.
As regards Points of Light, I have read the original article and find myself unimpressed but trying to moderate my feelings by reminding myself to wait for more information. However, I have to say that the idea of civilisation being restricted to a few enclaves surrounded by danger seems dumb. Doesn't anyone read history books anymore?
"Roads are often closed by bandits, marauders such as goblins or gnolls, or hungry monsters such as griffons or dragons." This suggests trade between the few remaining pockets of civilisation would be killed. To my mind often suggests greater than 50%, those odds do not encourage trade and it is worth mentioning at this point that current historical theory suggests that the first towns founded by humanity were done so as to facilitate trade. Even nowadays there is still a small chance of mishap with long distance travel. Back in the past those chances were higher but there was still the greater chance of getting a return.
If all that remains is a few scattered pockets of civilisation and if these "do not stay in close contact," then there is no longer any real clergy or any wizards. Clerics exist due to religions having the means to generate income and therefore support an organization whose aim is to promulgate their creed. Wizards must be taught spells and again there should be a means to ensure this happens.
Personally, I like the idea of a clash of civilisations. For example, having nomadic orcs in conflict with settled elves and humans. The current Realms works very well. There are frontier regions, there are unknown regions with deservedly dangerous reputations but there is enough civilisation to support major cities.
At the height of its empire, Ancient Rome had a population of between one to two million people. There was a frontier with the wide tribes of Germania amongst others and within its borders there were many wild areas too. The metropolises of the Realms need safe settled areas to support them. And they need regular trade since that is their primary raison d'etre.
To be fair a lot of what we have to discuss is hearsay but the omens are not looking god. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 02 Sep 2007 13:06:13 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 18:16:28
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Maybe points of light is more akin to Ironforge and Stormwind in WOW, at least it sounds more like it to me. And maybe you can travel froom one point of light to another point of light by griffon so that trade can still be maintained, and to get from PoL A to PoL B in the first place you have to have a certain amount of levels under your belt before you can reach the trainer who can teach you how to communicate with the griffonmaster who then sends you on your way. Maybe you start out at a smaller PoL , finish a couple of dumbass quests there to get your first rusty shortsword and then move on to kill...rabbits, or rabid rabbits...sounds like WoW to me, or EQ, there you certainly did have the points of light.
So maybe you will start out with your group clearing out the same rat infested hole that someone else liberated the week before, but now the rats have respawned...err reproduced, and we know that them rats are second to none when it comes to bonking, and now our would-be heroes have to sit around the virtual game table to explore this rat-hole, which, curiously enough, has more straight, rectangular passages that the average medieval town back here on Earth. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 20:18:54
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Has no one mentioned the most upsetting thing about this??? What will happen to the Double Diamond Triangle Saga ?!!! ;)
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 20:39:42
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
Has no one mentioned the most upsetting thing about this??? What will happen to the Double Diamond Triangle Saga ?!!! ;)
I suppose it does mean the events can be neatly slotted into the timeline now. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2007 : 21:57:49
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
Has no one mentioned the most upsetting thing about this??? What will happen to the Double Diamond Triangle Saga ?!!! ;)
Hahaha. That made my day!  |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2007 : 01:12:03
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
Has no one mentioned the most upsetting thing about this??? What will happen to the Double Diamond Triangle Saga ?!!! ;)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't it been said that once the timeline advances to the years depicted in a number of those novels . . . some of those events WILL be considered canon Realms Lore?
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2007 : 02:47:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
Has no one mentioned the most upsetting thing about this??? What will happen to the Double Diamond Triangle Saga ?!!! ;)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't it been said that once the timeline advances to the years depicted in a number of those novels . . . some of those events WILL be considered canon Realms Lore?
Yes. :) At least that is what WOTC said to me in my email to them. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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D&D 4e Discussion Scroll
