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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 02:03:15
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Since I'm already in mind of NPC classes, I was thinking about roles that aren't particularly filled with the current NPC classes, roles that might work well for the Realms. One of the the classes I thought of was a "hedge wizard," a wizard that doesn't learn powerful Art for use in combat, but rather learns useful spells to help himself and other through the day, and performs the Art not out of competition or adventure, but for the simple joy of working minor magics.
Like most NPC classes, I'd have him top out at 5th level spells. I think I'd also cut out the familiar ability, and replace it with a brew potions feat. It feels right for a hedge wizard to be able to make potions, in my mind.
So what I was wondering is what kind of spells do you see a hedge wizard having on his spell lists? What minor magics, or even more potent, but not automatically combat oriented spells should he have?
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 02:52:11
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Like most NPC classes, I'd have him top out at 5th level spells. I think I'd also cut out the familiar ability, and replace it with a brew potions feat. It feels right for a hedge wizard to be able to make potions, in my mind.
I agree with that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36874 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 04:47:57
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| You could use the info in the "Hedge Wizards" article, Dragon 163, as a starting point... |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 11:54:22
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| Is there not a Hedge Wizard (N)PC class in 2e - one of the 'blue' DMG supplements? Maybe it is the 'official' version of the article in Dragon Mag as referenced by our Master of Furry Mischief |
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Aureus
Learned Scribe
Luxembourg
125 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 14:11:41
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the Adept (NPC)class would be fitting, you need to ajust the spells by cutting out most wounding/killing spells spells (which are a truly a lot, but at the same time he has all the more space for "utility" spells) and also replace the Summon familiar with the brew potions feat as suggested above
you find it in the Dungeon Master's Guide p.107 |
That is not the weirdest thing that happened to me |
Edited by - Aureus on 23 Jun 2007 14:14:21 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 20:46:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You could use the info in the "Hedge Wizards" article, Dragon 163, as a starting point...
Darn it Wooly, I had forgotten about that article. Now that you mention it, I wish I had time to convert all of those "utility" spells over to 3.5, although since many of them have nothing to do with combat, its not strictly needed. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 20:52:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Is there not a Hedge Wizard (N)PC class in 2e - one of the 'blue' DMG supplements? Maybe it is the 'official' version of the article in Dragon Mag as referenced by our Master of Furry Mischief
I don't know, are you thinking of Sages and Specialists, perhaps? There are a lot of 2nd edition "NPC" classes in there, although there isn't a specific "hedge wizard" there are actually a couple that sort of fit the mindset of what I'm going for here. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 20:54:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Aureus
the Adept (NPC)class would be fitting, you need to ajust the spells by cutting out most wounding/killing spells spells (which are a truly a lot, but at the same time he has all the more space for "utility" spells) and also replace the Summon familiar with the brew potions feat as suggested above
you find it in the Dungeon Master's Guide p.107
I was thinking of useing the Adpet's spell progression for this class, although they will have to use a spellbook, still emphasizing the "wizard" part of Hedge Wizard. I was also thinking of bumping the "brew potion" feat back a level or two, but perhaps second level would make sense.
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 21:08:21
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| heh ... so noone would feel the lust of powergaming in that term by dipping a single level in it for that Feat |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 21:26:55
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Well, there was another thing I was thinking of, but I don't know if it would be needlessly restrictive, since they already wouldn't have a "combat" oriented spell list, but I was thinking of the following class ability for them:
Limited Preparation: Since you normally have quite a bit of time to peruse your spellbooks and find the spells you need during your work and your research, you have never developed the imperative need to quickly prepare your spells. Each of your spells must be prepared separately, and you cannot take an hour to prepare all of your spell slots. In effect, you must spend 15 minutes per spell that you wish to prepare.
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Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 25 Jun 2007 21:11:29 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2007 : 20:01:23
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Some ideas for spells:
0-level: Resistance, Detect Poison, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Dancing Lights, Light, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Open/Close, Arcane Mark, Prestidigitation
1st-level: Alarm, Endure Elements, Hold Portal, Grease, Mount, Unseen Servant, Comprehend Languages, Identify, Silent Image, Ventriloquism, Enlarge Person, Erase, Jump, Reduce Person
2nd-level: Arcane Lock, Resist Energy, Locate Object, Continual Flame, Gust of Wind, Shatter, Magic Mouth, Alter Self, Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Darkvision, Eagle's Splendor, Fox's Cunning, Knock, Levitate, Owl's Wisdom, Spider Climb, Whispering Wind
3rd-level: Protection from Energy, Arcane Sight, Clariaudience/Clairavoyance, Tongues, Heroism, Daylight, Tiny Hut, Wind Wall, Fly, Gaseous Form, Secret Page, Shrink Item, Water Breathing
4th-level: Remove Curse, Minor Creation, Secure Shelter, Locate Creature, Enlarge Person (mass), Reduce Person (Mass), Stone Shape
5th-level: Break Enchantment, Private Sanctum, Major Creation, Secret Chest, Telepathic Bond, Sending, Dream, Animal Growth, Fabricate, Overland Flight, Passwall, Telekenesis, Transmute Rock to Mud, Transmute Mud to Rock, Permanancy
A few of these can be used for combat, but they are also useful for everyday folk that might ask the Hedge Wizard's help in a task (I can easily see a man pay for his workers to be stronger, or larger for a given task, and if the Hedge Wizard can brew potions, I can see him making potions to increase a person's charisma, for example).
The other thing I was thinking is, what if the PCs hire this guy to come along on an adventure? Sure, normally he wouldn't, but if he did, he should have some abilities that can help them do their job, rather than doing it for them, which was the thought behind the inclusion of a few of these abilities.
Let me know what you think of these. I certainly could be moved one way or the other on a few of them, I just kind of wanted to get a general idea going to work with.
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Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 24 Jun 2007 20:04:14 |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 04:33:50
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I don't have my PHB handy, but a few druid or Bard spells might be handy for the archetype. I'm just thinking that the hedge wizard may have had some "nature magic experience" and it even fits with the "Limited Preparation" since they aren't truly "arcane" spells...
Some candidates off the top of my head include Barkskin, Silence, and meld into earth. Those might fit the idea of your hedge wizard, perhaps so perhaps not. Either way I like this NPC class and can picture PC's taking one into the dungeon, allowing their "cleric" to heal, "mage" to blast, and leaving the hedge wizard to fill the "buff" roll. I like it, and it makes for some really interesting RP experiences, too (Whaddya mean you've gotta take 2 hours to prepare spells?!)
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
985 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 17:32:33
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| You could also use the magewright NPC class from Eberron.... |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 21:34:21
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
You could also use the magewright NPC class from Eberron....
Thanks for chiming in Tom, your opinions is always welcome. I actually appreciate you reminding me to look at this class again. While I had it in the back of my mind that it existed, and that when I looked at it it didn't quite fit what I was thinking, for some reason it didn't occur to me to use it as a template for what I was doing here.
The main reason I wouldn't use it wholesale falls into a few fairly minor quibbles.
1. I like the idea of hedge wizard's having spellbooks. Not only does it still convey the idea that they are still wizards, just not ones that have learned anything "conbat worthy," but it also makes them a viable source for PCs looking to learn some "utility" spells, which I would still like to foster.
2. Some of the spells that magewrights get seem a bit too "in your face" for how I picture a hedge wizard. I can see them getting spells that just happen to be useful for combat as well (i.e. Bull's Strength, etc), but spells like animate dead and contact other plane just don't feel very "hedge wizardy" to me.
That having been said, I think the BAB, saves, hit dice, and spell progression are exactly what they should be, so that's pretty much what I'll pattern those after.
I'm thinking of removing the preparation issue as well, since a 20th level hedge wizard would then need to spend four and a half hours preparing spells, and because since there is a blueprint for a "lesser wizard" already in D&D, it doesn't make much sense for it to be so much less effective when they are almost the same concept.
The "craft" spells that they have in Eberron wouldn't be a bad addition to the spell list, but I wanted to leave it mainly SRD spells.
I am thinking of using the progression of "spell mastery" bonus spells and replacing that bonus with
1st Advanced Learning
4th Brew Potion
8th Advanced Learning
12th Advanced Learning
16th Advanced Learning
20th Advanced Learning
The advanced learning would allow them to learn a spell outside of their spell list from the transmutation or divination spell on the wizard/sorcerer list. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 21:36:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You could use the info in the "Hedge Wizards" article, Dragon 163, as a starting point...
If I were to convert those spells into 3.5 (at least the ones whose function isn't partially subsumed by another spell already), just about every one would go on the spell list for the class. If I ever really dig in and write this up, I'll look at converting those spells as well. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 21:37:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
I don't have my PHB handy, but a few druid or Bard spells might be handy for the archetype. I'm just thinking that the hedge wizard may have had some "nature magic experience" and it even fits with the "Limited Preparation" since they aren't truly "arcane" spells...
Some candidates off the top of my head include Barkskin, Silence, and meld into earth. Those might fit the idea of your hedge wizard, perhaps so perhaps not. Either way I like this NPC class and can picture PC's taking one into the dungeon, allowing their "cleric" to heal, "mage" to blast, and leaving the hedge wizard to fill the "buff" roll. I like it, and it makes for some really interesting RP experiences, too (Whaddya mean you've gotta take 2 hours to prepare spells?!)
/d
The advanced learning thing would cover a wee bit of this, but on the other hand, I don't want to stray too far from arcane spells for fear of making the whole shebang too much of a mishmash of good ideas that aren't streamlined quite as well. |
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NPC Class Ideas: Hedge Wizards
