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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11993 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Jun 2007 : 22:03:34
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I was just thinking about some ideas for other vestiges that might exists in the realms cosmology. More a general thought session than wanting hard core development. Can anyone think of any others?
Vestiges for the realms - some vestiges may be around right now because they were recently created. They may disappear as time passes and they ultimately fade away.
Mellifleur - the former lord of liches who recently lost his divinity to Velsharoon.
Ideas for his use - he could grant some of the benefits of being a lich (DR, immunities, etc...) and maybe a lich's touch
He would not like followers of Bane or Velsharoon and would want them murdered if possible. He could replace acerak (since he's GH) or you could give different powers.
Kanchelsis - formerly an immortal of divine rank 0 (i.e. he's immortal, but it specifically said he had no priests) who is supposedly the start of all vampirism, created through a mixing of human and elven divine blood in an experiment gone awry.
Ideas for his use - he could grant the ability to wild shape into "the beast", which is a dire wolf form, he could grant some vampiric abilities. He would instill a craving for blood into the binder.
Sammaster - Hey, this guy deserves some kudos. He was a chosen who went insane, formed a cult that worships undead dragons, and tied his phylactery to a major artifact that had for millenia driven dragons loco. If he became a vestige when he was destroyed, it wouldn't necessarily be unbelievable.
Ideas for his use - he could grant the ability to create undead. he could grant some ability to affect dragons. he could grant the ability to resist dragons breath. He could grant the ability to summon dragon-like demons (abishai).
Marduk - Untheric deity slain during the Orcgate wars. He was the one who slew Tiamat according to Untheric myth. I'd have to look at 1st edition deities and demigods for more info though.
Re - Mulhorandi deity slain by Gruumsh during the Orcgate wars. Perhaps his essence wasn't able to leave due to the ward put up by the Imaskari and the fact that he transferred his essence to Horus-Re.
The Shadow King - Its been a while since I read the books, but the Shadow King that had nine servants or somesuch.
Malaug - Noone really knows what happened to the malaugrym's "first born".
Lord Artificer Yuvaraj- the Imaskari Emperor who faced off against the God-Kings. The fight he had with the gods created the Raurin Desert. He should give some powers to release elemental destruction. Maybe he also grants the ability to summon or temporarily create constructs. Maybe he gives some power over efreet and djinn (many of whom were enslaved to the Imaskari)
Thayd, leader of the Theurgist Adepts - he encouraged rebellion against the Mulhorandi religious controls set upon arcane casters. Its rumored that he was also "Imaskari trained". Its generally believed that he was responsible for opening the Orcgate. Giving him some transportive/portal powers would seem to fit.
something with the night parade - this may be a stretch, but we know the night parade came from netherese arcanists who went to the plane of nightmare. What may have happened
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 06:03:37
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Okay, to add to the list
Murdane, the lost goddess of reason. Merely for completion, and the fact that she's got some cultists in realmspace (thanks KEJR).
On your list, I think the most likely candidates for "Vestige-ness" are:
Mellifleur, especially since there's a sort of precedent in Orcus/Tenebrous :)
Sammaster, although I think it will be years before he comes to Binder "knowledge."
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 06:08:42
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Is there a product/novel that shows a link between Kanchelsis and the Realms ? |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 07:22:55
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Marduk - Untheric deity slain during the Orcgate wars. He was the one who slew Tiamat according to Untheric myth. I'd have to look at 1st edition deities and demigods for more info though.
Marduk was just an alias of Bahamut. His title "The Justice Bringer" was transfered to Bahamut and is used by him today. And the Lord of the Northwind is quite active in the realms these days. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2007 : 21:37:50
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I've thought for a while that the lost Mulan deities would make for great vestiges.
Nalavara was a powerful creature that had ties to various planes of existance and screwed with the fabric of reality and magic a bit, so perhaps she would qualify as a vestige canditate as well (perhaps one that has it "in for" Cormyreans, or at least Cormyrean nobility).
Actually, any god that passed their name and portfolio to another god might be a good candidate for a vestige (Malyk, Ilbrandul, Marduk, etc.) Depending on weather you view Bahamut as inheriting Xymor's powers or always being Xymor, Xymor might make an interesting vestige.
And (Spoilers of Expedition to UnderMountain):
Halaster, especially given the way he died and how his soul scattered to call people into UnderMountain, might make for a good candidate for "vestigehood" as well.
Finally (Spoilers for Sacrifice of the Widow):
Vhearaun and Selvetarm might make for good vestiges as well, as would Zanassu, but then again, I'm still holding my bet on Vhearaun, so I wouldn't introduce him quite yet.
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Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 23 Jun 2007 21:41:41 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11993 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 14:27:44
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Yeah, I was really thinking about making up the list of Mulhorandi gods who had died in the orcgate wars as vestiges. That's why I listed Marduk (which, btw folks, Marduk died in the Orcgate wars, so was he actually Bahamut at that time? If he was, then did Bahamut die fighting in the orcgate wars?) and Re. However, Powers and Pantheons also lists: Inanna, Girru, Ki, Nanna-Sin, Nergal, and Utu. If the Theurgian society and the Theurgist Adepts are indeed one and the same, then perhaps this is why Thayd REALLY pissed off the God-Kings. I mean, vowing to conduct your own studies despite what the church says is one thing.... basically enslaving gods (even dead ones) to your will is another level of sacreligious entirely. I wish I had a copy of the first edition Deities and Demigods in electronic format, because I don't recall much about these other "dead" deities.
I do like your idea KEJR of using Malyk. That one should have hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I wouldn't want to make all "dead" gods into vestiges, just those who have actually had their names outright taken as Alias'. For instance, Leira's dead, but she still has a few worshippers out there, so there should be a lot more time before she's hauled into vestigeness. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11993 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 14:40:46
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| Oh, and I should've stated the above clearer (always quick on the draw). The ones I was thinking of the Theurgists enslaving would have been the incarnations (i.e. avatars) of those Gods who died in the fight against the Imaskari. Of course, perhaps news of the Theurgists "plans" to slay more of the God-Kings to make more vestiges available leaked. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11993 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 14:47:09
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<<Is there a product/novel that shows a link between Kanchelsis and the Realms ?
No, nothing ever actually states that he was realmsian that I'm aware of. Nothing ever states he wasn't either. IF he were though, the changing of rules after the Times of Trouble would have possibly made him weaker without worshippers. Thus, to me, he makes a better vestige than he does a "real" being. Perhaps those few times he's "been sighted" was when he had taken over a binder. It would indeed add a little bit of mystery to him, and possibly explain why he's not seen much (or surrounded by vampires somewhere). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11993 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 15:18:30
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Oh, and finally, I think there's a lot of possibilities with vestiges and the realms, but I also realize that introducing too many of them would also become a problem. It also wouldn't make sense that every binder would know about every vestige.
With these in mind, what are some suitable mechanics that we might put in place that would make sense for someone to find out the seal and requirements needed to summon and bind a vestige. My first thought would be to add a knowledge (regional history) for the particular being. If its a former deity, then perhaps a knowledge (religion) might be needed as well. If its a planar being, then perhaps a knowledge (the planes). Creatures might need knowledge (undead, abominations, etc...). Powerful arcane beings might need knowledge arcana. These should be required ranks in these skills, not checks. Anything else make better sense? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 16:42:24
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
(which, btw folks, Marduk died in the Orcgate wars, so was he actually Bahamut at that time? If he was, then did Bahamut die fighting in the orcgate wars?)
All informations from Dragons of Faerun:
quote:
Tiamat battled an Untheric alias of Bahamut, known as Marduk the Justice Bringer, time and again, but neither wyrm could prevail. [...]
[In the Orcgate-Wars] Tiamat launched a surprise attack against Gilgeam while he battled Ilneval. The ever vigilant Marduk intervened, killing Tiamat before she could land a death blow against Gilgeam, but at the cost of his own life. [...]
In the wake of the Battle of the Gods, the Platinum Dragon was reduced to the rank of celestial paragon [...], and the Chromatic Dragon was reduced to the rank of archfiend [...]
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"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11993 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 16:36:41
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| ah, kk, that explains that one away as a possibility then. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 19:13:35
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Have to agree with KEJR here, on his second 'spoiler'. I was a huge fan of Zagyg in my old GH days, and the aforementioned personage would make an EXCELLENT Realms version.
Also, the various Yuir Totems would make good vestigaes, although I believe all have merged with current gods.
What about Panzuriel? his foot could be the 'vestige'?
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Jun 2007 19:18:10 |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 21:52:31
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The Age of Worms Realms adaptation has Kyuss as a minor Chultan deity of centuries ago. He'd make a likely candidate for a vestige with ambition.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
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vestiges of the realms
