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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Apr 2007 : 20:38:39
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Looking for ANY information on this region/people. I have tried looking for them myself, and all I find is some rather vague references like "it says in Serpent Kingdoms".
Where is the information in SK? Wasn't there something in the Netheril boxed set as well?
I remember once reading 'something', but cannot locate any references anywhere.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2007 : 00:50:21
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See Races of Faerūn, pgs.108-109 and Serpent Kingdoms, pgs.111-112. The information out there is sketchy (mainly because Eric has had limited opportunities to incorporate the existing scant fiction references into the coherent FR firmament). See also Crypt of the Shadowking and Curse of the Shadowmage.
George's "History of the Heartlands" also promises to include some tidbits as well, but he's got an '08 'release' date on that. 
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Edited by - The Sage on 29 Apr 2007 00:52:07 |
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EvilKnight
Learned Scribe
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2007 : 03:47:32
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Faiths and Pantheons mentions the Talfiric pantheon and how Tempus use to be a part of it (pp4-5).
EvilKnight |
Danali Index |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2007 : 13:52:44
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Thank you, kind Sage. 
I'm putting together a 'complete' list of all known racial groups, and mapping out a possible 'migration patterns' chart for early tribes, building on some of what Bryan James did at the beginning of his GHotR. Nothing publish-worthy I'm sure; more of a compilation for my own research projects. What I really need to do is get my hands on that old 'languages' article in Dragon. You wouldn't happen to remember which issue that was in? The inter-relationships of the various language groups would probably save me at least 50% of the work.
Thanks - Mark
quote:
Originally posted by EvilKnight
Faiths and Pantheons mentions the Talfiric pantheon and how Tempus use to be a part of it (pp4-5).
EvilKnight
Figures, that is one of the few books I didn't bother to buy.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2007 : 15:23:29
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It was in one of the Dragon Annuals.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2007 : 16:08:20
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
It was in one of the Dragon Annuals.
-- George Krashos
Specifically the last 2e Dragon Annual, which was Dragon Annual #4. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2007 : 16:12:27
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| The once-upon-a-time Arylon project documentation is said to have some information on the Talfir. To-date I have not been able to locate any of this... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2007 : 16:53:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thank you, kind Sage.
I'm putting together a 'complete' list of all known racial groups, and mapping out a possible 'migration patterns' chart for early tribes, building on some of what Bryan James did at the beginning of his GHotR. Nothing publish-worthy I'm sure; more of a compilation for my own research projects. What I really need to do is get my hands on that old 'languages' article in Dragon. You wouldn't happen to remember which issue that was in? The inter-relationships of the various language groups would probably save me at least 50% of the work.
Tom Costa, in the old DRAGON Magazine Annual #4 "Speaking in Tongues" article, placed Talfir as a dead member of the Chessen family and Akalaic group. When the article was simplified for 3E significant portions were altered --
CHESSAN (ą la Greek: Ęolic, Cyprian, Modern Greek)
Chessentic: Auld Chessic/Alambic*, Thresk*, Chessic (Western, Threskian, Ixinosian), Alambit (Altumbelan, Coastal/Reach)
Akalaic: Arkian*, Eshowan*, Telfir*, Akalan (Swag creole, Proper Akalan), Akūrian (Samarachian, Tashlutar, Jungle Akūr), Shaartan (Northern Laker, Southern Laker, True Shaartan, Reacher, Lapaliiyan, Tharsult), Sespechian (Plains Sespechian, Hlondethan creole, Western/Lizard creole, Middle/Proper Sespechian)
RoF tells us the Talfir spoke a human tongue, Talfiric, which was based on the Draconic alphabet. Talfiric also had some relationship with Alzhedo, though I tend to think that was in respect to elements of both Alzhedo and Talfiric being incorporated into a Tethyrian dialect of Common.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 29 Apr 2007 16:55:04 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2007 : 22:17:54
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I think I came across the original post containing that info a while back, and that is how I knew about the article. Hopefully I have that issue around somewhere... I had taken a two-year hiatus from D&D toward the end of 2e and I am missing a couple of products. I was still getting my subscription for awhile though, so there is some hope.
The reason for my confusion about Talfir is that the SK reference does not place them back all that far in the timeline (the whole Ebenfar thing), yet Brian James has placed them in GHotR as far back as -23,000 DR. Even for FR, that would be an AMAZINGLY long time for any civilization to have survived.
I don't want to create a seperate post in the authors thread, so perhaps if Brian reads this he could give me his reasons for placing them thusly. Going by his map, I had originally thought of them as proto-Gur, but now I see that they came much later and are more likey DECENDED from the Gur, along with the Netherese. Unfortunately, I am at my Ex's house for the weekend and only have access to SK (which I brought), so I can't go back and look over the RoF entry until Tuesday.
Also, if you do respond Brian, were the Lung (Shou) arbitrarily placed, or is there a canon source stating that they migrated from the region you have indicated. From the KT (and Hordelands) material, it appears the Han(?) did indeed migrate from points west, mixing with the Kalmyk on the way to create the various Tuigen (Taan)tribes. Since the more ancient peoples of the East do not have overly Oriental features, one can assume this migration theory accurate. I was just wondering if there was a specific source that actually addessed this directly; most of what I have read indicates several pre-Shou cultures throughout the region.
Thanks for all your help guys, I wouldn't be able to muddle through this without it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Apr 2007 14:07:55 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 00:41:36
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TALFIR
In my opinion, and it really is only my opinion since none of this is official, the Talfir are an ancient human tribe dating back to the Dawn Ages. At this time, the Talfir were slaves of Caesinmalsvir, a draconic demesne centered among the forest known today as The Wood of Sharp Teeth. The Talfir were freed when Caesinmalsvir collapsed following the first Rage of Dragons c. -25000 DR. Being a forest people, the Talfir thrived on the periphery of elf communites, fishing in streams or hunting small game. During the Crown Wars the Talfir fled east abandoning their forest homes for good. The Talfir settled in the foothills of the Troll Mountains in the lands known today as the Green Fields. Keep in mind that the Talfir at this point are still quite primitive and know nothing of civilization. During the rise of Calimshan, the Talfir are easily conquered though they are permitted to maintain their ancient customs and worship of their barbaric gods. Wars with invading beholders ultimately lead to Calimshan withdrawing its troops from Talfir lands. The Talfir then spread north into the Chionthar river valley where they, for the first time in their long history, established a nation. Centuries later, the Shadowking forcibly assimilates the Netherese and Talfirian realms of the Chionthar river valley into the empire of Ebenfar. Escaping persecution, one Talfiric tribe escapes west and crosses the Sea of Swords to settle on the island they name Gwynneth. Ultimately Ebenfar collapses and the Talfir intermarry with the growing Tethyrian population in the region. Likewise the Talfir colony on Gwynneth is later overtaken by Tethyrians and Illuskans. If I remember correctly, the Gur originated further east and had little contact with the Talfir tribes of the Chionthar river valley, having arrived there after the fall of Ebenfar.
LUNG
The Lung peoples, descended from earlier Lapal tribes, were lead to the lands of modern day Murghom and Semphar by the celestial dragon Serpens (T`ien Lung) c. -24000 DR. The Lung prospered in this region for millennia until the coming of the the Imaskar civilization in 8350 DR. The Lung retreated north and east into the lands known today as the Endless Waste, Ra-Khati, and Kotokoro. Ultimately however, even these lands were conquered by the Imaskari and the Lung were assimilated into the greater empire of the portal lords. Over the centuries the Lung ethnicity was lost to the ever diverse melting pot of peoples and cultures introduced in the Imaskar society. Following the collapse of Imaskar, the followers of T`ien Lung (now known as the Shou) continued their migration east coming to populate much of the land known today as Kara-Tur. As I believe you suspected the Lung do not have asian features. Only when Imaskar began gating in peoples from other worlds did the Shou ethnicity (with asian-like features from Earth) arise in the East. Once again, none of this is official (yet) in Realms canon.
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 14:57:41
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Still having problems with the Talfir beig that old. The Gur were the original indegenious people from that region from what I have read, and I would have assumed that the Netherese and Talfir evolved from them. However,since the Early Netherese and Rengardt had the darker 'Conan-esque' features, I at least have a starting point now for the 'brown haired people' who later became Chondathan and others.
I am to assume that you are envisioning the Talfir as your 'Celtic' people (pre-historic tribes responsible for menhirs)? I was placing the Issacortae/Pazruki in this position do to certain things in their write-ups reminiscent of Celtic culture (most especially their use of Torcs, a uniquely Celtic magic item). Since I have to figure all your information will become canon in a few months (looking forward to it, BTW), I will just have to figure aother tie-in. After all, I have 25,000 years to work out how everyone got where they are. 
BTW - I was figuring 'something' in the region the Lung first appeard in that would tie together a few things. The Sarrukh were very good with portals (their cities existed in multiple places), and then later the Imaskar emerged as 'portal-masters' in the vicinity of Marshaulk. It seems a little coincidental that so many peoples used large, extensive portals to move about in the same general region. So here's what I was thinking - the ancient Imaskar (if they are actually natives of Toril) FOUND some of the earlier Sarrukh technology and 'tinkered' with it, creating huge portals to other worlds. These early versions behaved erratically however, so they later went on to develop and perfect their own powerful portal-magic. The Lung (Han, Shou) came through one of these ancient randomly-functioning 'tinkered with' portals. What do you think, make some sense? I also have it where the Shou arrived from a different sphere after their world/nation suffered a WSE, and that group had split-up, seedig MANY other worlds with similar Oriental cultures, including our own! Time-wise, that would make more sense, since the Lung seemed to be from a much later period culturally then the the RW Chinese were at that time. I suppose the portal could have moved them through time as well as space, but I hate time-travel explanations and try to avoid them whenever possible.
You wouldn't happen to have figured an original racial for the Illuskans, would you? The Azuposi don't make a lot of sense (Amerinds and Vikings?), but I suppose any thing is possible in a fantasy world. From their descriptions, the Azuposi seem to be an Iroquio-type people, and there is some supposition of early meetings between the Iroquio and Norse in RW, but as far as being of the same racial stock that's a bit of a stretch in my mind. Unfortunely, I have nearly none of my research materials on hand right now, so I can't even find a physical description of the Azuposi (although City of Gold goes on for many pages describing their culture).
I put my K-T history project on a back burner until your book comes out, and I suppose I will have to shelf this too until then. Its all good, I can go back to looking for Dark Elves again. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 May 2007 01:18:55 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2007 : 08:09:19
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Just curious, when it comes to the Gurs. If they originate in the Western Heartlands, how do they stand when it comes to the Gurs of the Hordelands. Similarity in names or two parts of the same people?
I always saw the Talfirs as the most advanced point in the culture of ingenious people of the Western Hearlands (Tethen tribes), but that is not exactly canon. The Races of Faerun book forced me to decide between my longstanding ideas and canon. My version won.
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2007 : 15:18:16
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| If I remember correctly, Races of Faerūn states that the Gur are nomads who originally came from Rashemen (one of the Racial, or in this case Ethnic, feats in that book has "Rashemi - including Gur" as its prerequisite). |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2007 : 23:30:41
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
George's "History of the Heartlands" also promises to include some tidbits as well, but he's got an '08 'release' date on that.
*Sits up straight*
Any more info around here on that, Sage... George?
(Ah, behind again... This is what I get when real life gets in the way...  ) |
Edited by - BlackAce on 02 May 2007 23:46:08 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2007 : 18:18:24
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Will that work be 'official', because then I might as well quit what I'm doing right now.
I have figured several proto-tribes for the early humans, including one called the 'Cortae' (FR version of Celts) which dominated most of the central portion of the proto-continent of Merrouroboros (from Brian James' GHotR). Most of the early humans then either lived in very primitive cave-societies hiding from the much more powerful creatures around them, or were enslaved as time went on by the various dragon empires.
After the Sundering, weather patterns were greatly altered and this caused a 'little Ice-Age' for several centuries. Between the geographic upheaval and the climactic changes many of the early tribes migrated quite a bit. The most numerous, the Cortae, were divided at this point into at least two major groups - the Talfir-Cortae and the Issa-Cortae. The Talfir-Cortae seperated into several other peoples over the millenium, including the Talfir and early Jamdathan. The Issa-cortae went on to found their own empire in the region of modern Chukei, and the Pazruki are a mix of this group and the Kalmyk (a slavic-like group).
The Gur, for their part, originated in the region of the Great Ice sea, which froze over during the 'little Ice-Age'. The one tribe that remained in the mountainous region to the east became the Kalmyk, who later split into several other groups like the Suren, who mixed with the eastward moving Shou (thus forming the northern Tuigen and Nar), amongst others. There was a mass exodus of the Gur from Yal Tengri (Great Ice Sea) across the northern reaches of Faerūn. This group slowly fragmented into several others as it mixed with the Cortae peoples and later the Azui peoples (a Fair-haired, light featured race living in the north-west of the proto-continent). The Azui later were devasted by the sundering, losing much of their territory and peoples, along with large chunks of their heritage. The group that remained on many islands near the Faerūn portion of the world became the Azui-luskan (and later simply the 'Illuskani'), while the group that wound up on the newly formed continent of Anchorome slowly mingled with the southern peoples there and became the Azui-Posi (later simply Azuposi).
I have some stuff on the peoples who were indegenious to the Shar region, mixing heavely with the Shou when they appeared in Murghōm, and the Gur further north in the region of modern day Rashemen and Thay. I forget the names of the various tribes that created, because I do not have my source material/research with me.
And then there is the dusky-skined group called the Tanubians (working title), wich became the modern Tabaxi and Eshowe, and mixing heavily with others, to form yet more groups including the Tashalan and modern day Turmish. I figure I'd use the 'Ta' in the name, because of the Tabaxi and the Tashalan, and even the 'T' in Turmish. I'm trying to follow a logical pattern of language break-downs and spelling altering over millenium.
I still have TONS of work to do on this, so far it is just a VERY rough outline, subject to changes with some eagerly anticipated sources.
BTW, I'm just doing this for my own enjoyment and figure I'd share. If it doesn't work for you thats fine too; the tried and true "They came through a portal" probably has a few hundred uses left in it yet. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 May 2007 18:51:18 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 00:39:36
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George is a great realms historian and much of his work becomes canon sooner or later. Having said that, I would hope you wouldnt halt your efforts Markus. It's obvious you love the Realms and its history and I'm sure many here appreciate your take on things.quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Will that work be 'official', because then I might as well quit what I'm doing right now.
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 02:44:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Will that work be 'official', because then I might as well quit what I'm doing right now.
The indomitable Sage hasn't quite got his timeline right. A "History of the Heartlands" wouldn't appear from my pen much before 2010, and only then in consultation with Faraer's "History of the Dalelands". Also, it wouldn't focus much on pre-history, being more concerned with post-Crown War events. Also, it's wouldn't be "official" at all. Nothing is, until it gets published by WotC.
Currently I'm focusing on nailing down more details and info into my East Timeline and working on a pet-project which I have to have done by GEN-CON.
Your work is as good and valid as anyone's Markustay. Keep at it.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 04:56:17
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Thanks guys, it means a lot to me.
Once I have all the modern groups placed in older groups and then in ancient groups, and those placed further back into the five primordial groups, I will do a whole 'cradle of civilization' thing, complete with several maps of tribal migrations through the millenia. I used to love those type of maps back in my HS history books, showing the vandals and the Goths, etc...
The only one I remeber from FR is the small one that came with the Hordelands set, and then only a few cultures were shown. Does anyone know of any others? The one thing I remember fondly from my old GH days were those migration charts in the begiinning of the book. It added another whole layer of realism to the setting for me. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 06:35:53
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The indomitable Sage hasn't quite got his timeline right.
Well, you did tell me about this back in '05.  I'd assumed you'd probably revise your release date somewhat, though -- what with other projects diverting your time.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 05 May 2007 06:36:53 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 11:37:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Will that work be 'official', because then I might as well quit what I'm doing right now.
I have figured several proto-tribes for the early humans, including one called the 'Cortae' (FR version of Celts) which dominated most of the central portion of the proto-continent of Merrouroboros (from Brian James' GHotR). Most of the early humans then either lived in very primitive cave-societies hiding from the much more powerful creatures around them, or were enslaved as time went on by the various dragon empires.
After the Sundering, weather patterns were greatly altered and this caused a 'little Ice-Age' for several centuries. Between the geographic upheaval and the climactic changes many of the early tribes migrated quite a bit. The most numerous, the Cortae, were divided at this point into at least two major groups - the Talfir-Cortae and the Issa-Cortae. The Talfir-Cortae seperated into several other peoples over the millenium, including the Talfir and early Jamdathan. The Issa-cortae went on to found their own empire in the region of modern Chukei, and the Pazruki are a mix of this group and the Kalmyk (a slavic-like group).
The Gur, for their part, originated in the region of the Great Ice sea, which froze over during the 'little Ice-Age'. The one tribe that remained in the mountainous region to the east became the Kalmyk, who later split into several other groups like the Suren, who mixed with the eastward moving Shou (thus forming the northern Tuigen and Nar), amongst others. There was a mass exodus of the Gur from Yal Tengri (Great Ice Sea) across the northern reaches of Faerūn. This group slowly fragmented into several others as it mixed with the Cortae peoples and later the Azui peoples (a Fair-haired, light featured race living in the north-west of the proto-continent). The Azui later were devasted by the sundering, losing much of their territory and peoples, along with large chunks of their heritage. The group that remained on many islands near the Faerūn portion of the world became the Azui-luskan (and later simply the 'Illuskani'), while the group that wound up on the newly formed continent of Anchorome slowly mingled with the southern peoples there and became the Azui-Posi (later simply Azuposi).
I have some stuff on the peoples who were indegenious to the Shar region, mixing heavely with the Shou when they appeared in Murghōm, and the Gur further north in the region of modern day Rashemen and Thay. I forget the names of the various tribes that created, because I do not have my source material/research with me.
And then there is the dusky-skined group called the Tanubians (working title), wich became the modern Tabaxi and Eshowe, and mixing heavily with others, to form yet more groups including the Tashalan and modern day Turmish. I figure I'd use the 'Ta' in the name, because of the Tabaxi and the Tashalan, and even the 'T' in Turmish. I'm trying to follow a logical pattern of language break-downs and spelling altering over millenium.
I still have TONS of work to do on this, so far it is just a VERY rough outline, subject to changes with some eagerly anticipated sources.
BTW, I'm just doing this for my own enjoyment and figure I'd share. If it doesn't work for you thats fine too; the tried and true "They came through a portal" probably has a few hundred uses left in it yet.
I like this Marcustay; You make me wonder if I should, just for fun, try to do something with my own old and very uncannonly tethen culture. Maybe Alaundo would allow it in the archives if it says "non-cannon" clearly in the beginning. |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2007 : 15:34:00
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The indomitable Sage hasn't quite got his timeline right. A "History of the Heartlands" wouldn't appear from my pen much before 2010, and only then in consultation with Faraer's "History of the Dalelands". Also, it wouldn't focus much on pre-history, being more concerned with post-Crown War events. Also, it's wouldn't be "official" at all. Nothing is, until it gets published by WotC.
Currently I'm focusing on nailing down more details and info into my East Timeline and working on a pet-project which I have to have done by GEN-CON.
Your work is as good and valid as anyone's Markustay. Keep at it.
-- George Krashos
Ahhh. Either way looking for ward to seeing it someday, George.
That sounds like a pretty interesting project, Markustay. Stick with it! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2007 : 20:43:29
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Thank you, I've been tweaking the heck out of it for the last week, trying to fit everything in. Thanks for help from the various 'official types' and others who have shed some light on certain things over the past few days here and at WotC boards. Right now I'm concentrating on the Hordelands, trying to 'sew together' all four campaign regions is a bear (but fun).
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
I like this Marcustay; You make me wonder if I should, just for fun, try to do something with my own old and very uncannonly tethen culture. Maybe Alaundo would allow it in the archives if it says "non-cannon" clearly in the beginning.
Everything I do I try (as best as possible) to fit into existing lore. This is why I eagerlly await GHotR; from the 'hints' I have seen it looks like much of my work might have been done for me, and 'official' stuff is always better (as far as 'maximum acceptability' goes). In fact, The KT timeline I'm working on ATM takes quite a few dates from the official timeline and builds upon them.
Although it would be easier to just 'start-from-scratch', it is so much more fun for me to find 'connections' that never existed before. I do however look at everyone's 'homebrew' lore, and borrow from it, so anytime someone wants to share their own version of the realms I am always more then happy to read it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 04:36:01
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[Dalor Darden casts Rez Scroll]
I am hoping you guys are still working on this sort of thing!
I would REALLY love to get my hands on anything based on human history within the Forgotten Realms.
Mostly, I am looking for a migration of peoples...slash...origin of peoples...with a great desire to see a map with it on it! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 13 Aug 2010 04:36:29 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 22:07:12
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Sorry Dalor, but after the GHotR came out I gave up on several projects. The new lore in certain areas made a LOT of what I had written inaccurate, and I find the enormous amount of inconsistencies had grown worse, and gone well beyond my meager skills to stitch-together.
Never before in the history of D&D had a 'designer' made the assumption that the end-result of a canon, printed adventure been failure. In every other case I can think of, when an adventure was referenced in later 'historic' material, the assumption was the group of adventurers were successful at their goals.
To just say "I thought it would be more interesting if they failed" just made the module in-question absolutely worthless to anyone owning it.
Ergo, any project that references source-material, that can be changed on-the-fly or retro-actively made invalid, is destined to failure. The idea is to take the existing inconsistencies and bring them together in a logical fashion, not create more inconsistencies, and if official material can't be bothered to do that, why should we? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2010 : 22:54:34
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| Don't let that stop you from sending me what you have! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 15:48:29
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| Anyone have ideas who was in the Talfiric pantheon? |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 15:56:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Anyone have ideas who was in the Talfiric pantheon?
I might be mixing things with my own ramblings at the moment, but I am pretty sure that Tempus was the talfiric war god. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 16:01:21
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I know, for Tempus (Crom ) and Lathander we are sure. But what about the others.
It appears they are celtic inspired, so possibly Oghma, Silvanus, Herne (Malar) and some fey gods, like Queen of Air and Darkness (Auril)? Lurue? |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 16:06:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
I know, for Tempus (Crom ) and Lathander we are sure. But what about the others.
It appears they are celtic inspired, so possibly Oghma, Silvanus, Herne (Malar) and some fey gods, like Queen of Air and Darkness (Auril)? Lurue?
I have always handled the Talfir as an early tethen culture and the two are very entwined in my head, so I will have to be a bit careful about what I say where they are concerned. Malar seems to be from the North or the Vilhon if we go by where he seems to be strongest, Auril I would think belonged to a culture further north unless her belief was a remnant from an earlier ice age (I like that idea actually)I think The Queen should be kept as the ruler of the Unseelie though. Has she ever been included in any source bearing the Realms logo? |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2010 : 17:47:05
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4e Dragon magazine article (350ish) makes Auril the Queen of Air and Darkness. This is a part of 4e lore that I'm ok with. For ''Dark God'' from Monster Mythology I'd prefer Shar (secretly) or Moander.
If Malar was popular in the North and the Vilhon, why not then somewhere in between as well...
What do you think about Talos, Talona and Chauntea (who's likely more bloody considering the druids). That could all be Talfiric names. Netherese had Jannath and Kozah.
In my games I also included Dispater (also Celtic, aka Dispatha), who was before Waukeen expanded from Jhaamdath. Also a bonesinger-type death god, and Vanathor the Golden Harpist. |
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Talfir
