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GazzaM
Acolyte
Australia
18 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Sep 2010 : 23:47:35
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Does anyone have any information on the previous Zulkirs of Thay, those Zulkirs before 1347 ?
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2010 : 22:09:41
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| Maligor and that vampire lass Flass |
z455t |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2010 : 07:40:28
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quote:
Originally posted by GazzaM
Does anyone have any information on the previous Zulkirs of Thay, those Zulkirs before 1347 ?
The following zulkirs are mentioned in Grand History of the Realms
As mentioned by Kno, Maligor was Zulkir of Alteration until 1362 DR; he might have been in place as of 1347 DR.
Nyressa Flass was the Zulkir of Necromancy, and was slain in 1157 DR by a cabal led by Szass Tam (who succeeded her).
Nymor Thrull was a Zulkir of Illusion, slain in 1201 DR by Szass Tam.
The novel The Simbul's Gift indirectly references Lauzoril's predecessor, whose family name, I think, was Tavai. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2010 : 16:21:04
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Polyhedron lore from Ed also mentions a zulkir by the name of Thalomeade.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 17:24:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
quote:
Originally posted by GazzaM
Does anyone have any information on the previous Zulkirs of Thay, those Zulkirs before 1347 ?
The following zulkirs are mentioned in Grand History of the Realms
As mentioned by Kno, Maligor was Zulkir of Alteration until 1362 DR; he might have been in place as of 1347 DR.
Nyressa Flass was the Zulkir of Necromancy, and was slain in 1157 DR by a cabal led by Szass Tam (who succeeded her).
Nymor Thrull was a Zulkir of Illusion, slain in 1201 DR by Szass Tam.
The novel The Simbul's Gift indirectly references Lauzoril's predecessor, whose family name, I think, was Tavai.
As far as I can remember, there was no name mentioned, just that Lauzoril's predecessor is his wife's grandfather, whom he killed.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 18:39:14
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I believe Ed gave TSR some zulkir lore back in 1986 that hasn't been published yet. Perhaps, if you ask him in his thread . . . 
love,
THO |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 02:31:57
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
As far as I can remember, there was no name mentioned, just that Lauzoril's predecessor is his wife's grandfather, whom he killed.
That must have earned him some nights on the couch!  |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 04:21:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
As far as I can remember, there was no name mentioned, just that Lauzoril's predecessor is his wife's grandfather, whom he killed.
That must have earned him some nights on the couch!
Not just some nights, but some long nights, in fact. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 10:54:18
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| demilich Ythazz |
z455t |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 11:35:18
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Found one:
Jorgmacdon, the first Zulkir of the School of Conjuration. He devised the glyph, which is actually the shape of the city Eltabbar, that held Eltab prisoner.
-Dreams of the Red Wizards, p. 17 |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 01 Oct 2010 11:39:11 |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 11:59:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
As far as I can remember, there was no name mentioned, just that Lauzoril's predecessor is his wife's grandfather, whom he killed.
That must have earned him some nights on the couch!
I seem to recollect that it was actually her father, rather than her grandfather. (Laurozil kept his own father and grandfather around in undead state, though). So, what's the penalty for that? (Taking into account that he only took her for his wife after he'd become Zulkir, and that her father / his father-in-law basically transformer her into a bit of a simple soul.)
Edit: Here's a link to a two-years-ago thread on these cery boards to which your humble servitor made a small contribution: Who was Zulkir of what when?. |
Edited by - Thauramarth on 01 Oct 2010 12:07:12 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 12:53:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
As far as I can remember, there was no name mentioned, just that Lauzoril's predecessor is his wife's grandfather, whom he killed.
That must have earned him some nights on the couch!
I seem to recollect that it was actually her father, rather than her grandfather. (Laurozil kept his own father and grandfather around in undead state, though). So, what's the penalty for that? (Taking into account that he only took her for his wife after he'd become Zulkir, and that her father / his father-in-law basically transformer her into a bit of a simple soul.)
Edit: Here's a link to a two-years-ago thread on these cery boards to which your humble servitor made a small contribution: Who was Zulkir of what when?.
What a good thing indeed when I realize my memory can still be relied upon! Here's something from The Simbul's Gift, a dialog between Lauzoril and his (naughty) daughter:
"I thought you were the prince, Poppa. I didn't guess you were like her grandfather."
"Exactly like her grandfather, Mimuay. I killed her grandfather in a duel two years before you were born. Since that night I have been the Zulkir of Enchantment."
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 13:54:27
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| What's the "Why do Red Wizards wear red?" thread that's mentioned in that other thread? I don't think I've seen it, but it sounds interesting and a cursory search of CK doesn't turn it up. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 14:37:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
What's the "Why do Red Wizards wear red?" thread that's mentioned in that other thread? I don't think I've seen it, but it sounds interesting and a cursory search of CK doesn't turn it up.
My memory seems to be failing me (q.v. father v. grandfather), but I think someone (might have been me, but senior moments rule right now) asked Ed the question, and I'm relatively sure the answer was "because it's easier to disguise bloodstains" or something along those lines. |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 16:34:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
What's the "Why do Red Wizards wear red?" thread that's mentioned in that other thread? I don't think I've seen it, but it sounds interesting and a cursory search of CK doesn't turn it up.
My memory seems to be failing me (q.v. father v. grandfather), but I think someone (might have been me, but senior moments rule right now) asked Ed the question, and I'm relatively sure the answer was "because it's easier to disguise bloodstains" or something along those lines.
HA! Yeah, IIRC, it was a largely arbitrary choice on his part. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Lord of Bones
Seeker
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 19:44:25
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
As far as I can remember, there was no name mentioned, just that Lauzoril's predecessor is his wife's grandfather, whom he killed.
That must have earned him some nights on the couch!
Not just some nights, but some long nights, in fact.
Pshaw. The Zulkir of Enchantment spends no nights on the couch, unless he wills it! He can no doubt charm his way into his wife's good graces after killing her father/grandfather/long lost cousin. |
Come watch the Gentleman's Guide to Gaming!
http://www.youtube.com/user/clackclickbang
On my channel I review and dissect role-playing games with great gusto. Please do take a look and let me know what you think. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 12:03:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
What's the "Why do Red Wizards wear red?" thread that's mentioned in that other thread? I don't think I've seen it, but it sounds interesting and a cursory search of CK doesn't turn it up.
My memory seems to be failing me (q.v. father v. grandfather), but I think someone (might have been me, but senior moments rule right now) asked Ed the question, and I'm relatively sure the answer was "because it's easier to disguise bloodstains" or something along those lines.
I wonder why not purple or amethyst, considering they came from Imaskar, where most wizards wore amethyst robes? Hmm, come to think of it, 'Red Wizards' still sounds cooler than 'Purple Wizards,' while 'Amethyst Wizards' has an air of femininity (which might not be appropriate for an elite class that's predominantly male).
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 13:23:58
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| Tyrian purple is red enough |
z455t |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2010 : 05:11:40
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| 'Tis too light, almost orange, to be red. =) |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 10 Oct 2010 05:12:23 |
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Lord of Bones
Seeker
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2010 : 08:27:28
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| According to Spellbound, Nevron replaces Sabass as Zulkir of Conjuration. Sabass wasn't listed as a Zulkir in Dreams of the Red Wizards, which could imply he had a very short tenure, or just means he kept the truth of his position concealed from the wider populace and common lore (as Zulkirs are free to do). |
Come watch the Gentleman's Guide to Gaming!
http://www.youtube.com/user/clackclickbang
On my channel I review and dissect role-playing games with great gusto. Please do take a look and let me know what you think. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2010 : 08:46:38
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| I'd go for the latter, LoB. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2010 : 12:02:06
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
'Tis too light, almost orange, to be red. =)
orange? look here for the shades of imperial purple
I prefer the Imaskari tradition to just cause they liked the color of blood |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2010 : 15:47:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord of Bones
According to Spellbound, Nevron replaces Sabass as Zulkir of Conjuration. Sabass wasn't listed as a Zulkir in Dreams of the Red Wizards, which could imply he had a very short tenure, or just means he kept the truth of his position concealed from the wider populace and common lore (as Zulkirs are free to do).
My take has ever been (and the trouble is, at my age, I can't remember if I read it somewhere, or whether I made an executive decision here) that Sabass became zulkir after his predecessor bought it during the ToT. So he would not have been a zulkir at the time of Dreams of the Red Wizards, and would have been out of the job before Spellbound. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2010 : 04:46:21
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| Since there's no such thing as 'utterly dead' in D&D, should one or two of the previous zulkirs reappear, either to challenge Szass Tam or undertake his bigger, more sensible schemes from a distant realm, who would you want it to be? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 04:40:33
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Mysterious Mythrell'aa(?), Zulkir of Illusion (?-1350DR). Would've been quite powerful back in the 1E days when Illusionists were the only unique magic-user class. At the time there just wasn't anything outstanding about Szass at all (when compared against the other Zulkirs) beyond the fact that he was a lich. In some respects that actually made Szass less powerful than his peers, at least in the long game. Things have changed, of course.
An accomplished (and probably very old) illusionist could've easily possessed powers unknown to the other Zulkirs ... faking death is a mere triviality. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 27 Nov 2010 04:46:45 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 05:21:08
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Hmm, I thought she's the least powerful among the zulkirs. Richard didn't even give her a 'proper death,' just mentioned it in passing. In The Simbul's Gift, she didn't strike me as a great character, either. Alassra would have easily burnt her to ashes.
The ones I'd like to see come back are Lallara, Nevron, Lauzoril, and two from the First Zulkirate, especially that zulkir who used to appear like Thay's Overlord. I can't remember his name. And the search spell only led me to Chamber of Sages---I don't have the luxury of time to peruse all the 90+ pages. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 06:17:20
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Nevron was just a tank packing tons of firepower ... aside from being an arrogant hothead (as one would expect a Zulkir to be) he just wasn't much of a personality at all. He's pretty much interchangeable with any other powergamer who plays this class. I do like his manly cool name, though.
I'd like to see a more decently condescending bastard as Zulkir of Invocation ... I mean, c'mon, the penultimately superior blaster! (Second only to, um, Talos.) He certainly wouldn't view his peers as competent, he'd expect to be able to liquify them all anytime it really matters, and he'd treat them accordingly. Not to say he'd be a reckless idiot, just that he'd view the others as "lesser" wizards who employ "weak" magics. Fire, Thunder, Force, Disintegration ... other magic is just a waste of time, right?
The disgustingly corpulent Kul is obnoxiously interactive, but seems to have evolved into a gluttonous wheezing toad instead of into a fearsomely capable Zulkir of Transmutation (incidentally, my personal vote for "Most Awesome Mage Specialty"). It's understandable that the other characters (Zulkirs) wouldn't look past Kul's superficial defects - he's got so many, and he's so contemptible that they'd hardly even want to look that far - but it would be nice to see Kul actually demonstrate some ruthlessly potent Zulkir competence instead of constantly serving as a rotundly decadent/comedic prop. He does sort of moderate (and lead) the Zulkir band through his massively intimidating blubbery presence and booming voice (when his mouth isn't full) ... but I just feel he needs to do more to be really interesting. Even the other characters - friends and foes alike - constantly side-chatter to remind each other that Zulkir Kul should not be underestimated. Really? How long will they keep up that attitude without a useful demonstration?
Lallara Mediocros, well, the name really says it all. She's so much of an unassuming sycophantic mediator that I'd actually be dumbfounded if she ever dared to defy the collective will of the other Zulkirs with a dangerous new idea. "Always on the defensive" is not a bad personality trait for an Abjurer ... but she is supposed to be a powerful Zulkir of Thay; generally not a position available to meek, unambitious, and hesitant people.
Mythrell'aa's "death" wasn't properly explained. Hardly confirmed. Perhaps just as mysterious as everything else about her. Of course, Illusion = Deception ...
I suspect Mythrell'aa was removed from the setting to prevent confusion with Mythal, Mythallar, mithril, Mystra, etc (which would be a shame, since I feel a plausible explanation worked into the story would've been more interesting than another new face).
A Zulkir of Fire Magic (followed by Zulkirs of Air, Earth, Water, Shadow, Wild, etc) would be logical. Such positions didn't exist within the traditional structure, but surely some qualified people would attempt to install themselves during these troubling times in Thay. Maybe even a Psionicist or three. The more Zulkirs the merrier, red is a delicious colour which evokes passion and courage (and serves as a danger signal everywhere throughout nature).
Just my thoughts. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 27 Nov 2010 09:08:41 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 09:23:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Lallara Mediocros, well, the name really says it all. She's so much of an unassuming sycophantic mediator that I'd actually be dumbfounded if she ever dared to defy the collective will of the other Zulkirs with a dangerous new idea. "Always on the defensive" is not a bad personality trait for an Abjurer ... but she is supposed to be a powerful Zulkir of Thay; generally not a position available to meek, unambitious, and hesitant people.
I love her. A bi*** always makes the Zulkirate merrier! 
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
A Zulkir of Fire Magic (followed by Zulkirs of Air, Earth, Water, Shadow, Wild, etc) would be logical. Such positions didn't exist within the traditional structure, but surely some qualified people would attempt to install themselves during these troubling times in Thay. Maybe even a Psionicist or three. The more Zulkirs the merrier, red is a delicious colour which evokes passion and courage (and serves as a danger signal everywhere throughout nature).
Just my thoughts.
All of them are already the province of Evocation. So there's no need. Except Zulkir of Shadow. Shadow being the ninth school/sub-school of magic would help them fortify their nation further, and enable them to stunt any siege should Shade and Sembia be so crazy as to attack them. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 09:30:02
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EDIT: @ Arik
Look for homebrew Thay on REALMS-L mailing list. I recall seeing one such idea there, I even have it saved to my HDD.
EDIT: Gremlins galore. I tried to post these two lines above thrice and missed a post that got sent in the meantime. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
Edited by - Zireael on 27 Nov 2010 11:24:27 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 09:49:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
Look for homebrew Thay on REALMS-L mailing list. I recall seeing one such idea there, I even have it saved to my HDD.
Is this for me or Arik? If 'tis for me, sorry, I don't game. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 11:34:56
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I've never heard of REALMS-L ... this link?
What is it?
Is there any way to download all of it in a single package, rather than clicking through a thousand htmls? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Previous Zulkirs
