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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 08:03:37
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| What happens to Saradush in the novels, then? |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 08:32:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Bocklin
What happens to Saradush in the novels, then?
I didnt buy Throne of Bhaal as BG 1 and 2 had been so disgracefully bad so I couldnt tell you
Kuje seems to be our relevant expert on the subject perhaps he can enlighten us????? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 09 Feb 2007 08:39:22 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 13:22:16
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Saradush was extensively damaged during the events of the novel... though parts of it were already being rebuilt by the end of the book.
I'll note also that Steven has discussed this in his replies here at Candlekeep.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 18:24:20
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quote:
Originally posted by DargothAlso Im pretty sure I saw some material or the deaths of some of the rulers of Baldurs Gate city in a source book (Power of Faerun?) and in the game the rulers dont have to die if the players quick so the FR designers have already made a descision on an variable event in the games so I dont see that as a hinderence
Those deaths occured in the novelization. Any events that occured in the game (even 100% unavoidable ones) but not in the novels is not canon, but any that did is. Similarly, any event that occured in the novels but never happened in the games is canon (for example, Sarevok murdering several of the main character's companions).
Also, certain Baldur's Gate NPCs do appear in the novels while others do not. This means that of the BG1 NPCs, only Montaron, Xvar, Jaheira, Khalid, Xan, and Yeslick are canon characters ... though all but the last two are killed off during the novel. Also, the novel's background stories (and consequently the canon background stories) for several of the NPCs is quite different than the game's; for instance in the BG1 game, Khalid is from Calimshan and Jaheira from Tethyr; in the novel, they're both Amnian.
One point of interest is that, according to the BG1 novel, the Iron Throne is a splinter group of the Zhentarim. I'm not really sure how this can be reconcilled with what we know of the group from other canon sources.
I haven't read either the SoA or ToB novels, so I couldn't tell you which NPCs turn up in those nor which events are canon and which are not. I have heard rumours that Jaheira also snuffs it during the SoA novel, though, and I suppose there's a chance Imoen actually makes an appearance in at least one of these two books.
EDIT: another odd thing; early on in the novel, the main character finds a note telling him he is the son of "the Black Lord". The Black Lord is not a title given to Bhaal, but rather to Bane, Bhaal's superior. |
Edited by - nbnmare on 09 Feb 2007 18:30:49 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 23:29:04
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Actually, Xan does die in the Baldur's Gate novel (and he is very different than he is in the game, as with most other characters in these books).
Imoen does appear in SoA and ToB. Both Imoen and Jaheira meet their ends in the ToB novel. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 09 Feb 2007 23:29:53 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2007 : 17:12:57
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As the novels are indeed canon and I'll try hard to ensure the events of Baldur's Gate 2 and Throne of Bhaal make it into the Grand History.
But Dargoth touches on a greater issue. What other events are missing from the timeline? I have a small window of opportunity to send in new updates or corrections, so get me your suggestions as soon as possible. Feel free to post in this forum or send me a private message. The only requirement is that you provide a verifiable reference for any event.
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2007 : 17:35:00
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I will so be getting a copy of this!
May it be the start of a new trend at WotC. Reprints of the Volo's Guides wouldn't hurt my feelings any either... |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2007 : 23:14:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Actually, Xan does die in the Baldur's Gate novel (and he is very different than he is in the game, as with most other characters in these books).
Whoops, somehow Xan and Jaheira's places got swapped. The "though all but the last two are killed off" comment was supposed to include her, not Xan  .
quote:
Imoen does appear in SoA and ToB. Both Imoen and Jaheira meet their ends in the ToB novel.
Good to know. Which of the BG2 NPCs, if any, make an appearance in these two novels? (If Anomen pops up, I'm hoping that he too meets a suitably grizzly end.) |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2007 : 23:39:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
As the novels are indeed canon and I'll try hard to ensure the events of Baldur's Gate 2 and Throne of Bhaal make it into the Grand History.
But Dargoth touches on a greater issue. What other events are missing from the timeline? I have a small window of opportunity to send in new updates or corrections, so get me your suggestions as soon as possible. Feel free to post in this forum or send me a private message. The only requirement is that you provide a verifiable reference for any event.
You might want to ping Eric Boyd, Dragons of Faerun had a number of Dracorage events from Year of Rogue Dragons that where never date stamped, Eric was working on dates for the events (If you check out my timeline thread here at Candlekeep you'll find a list of these events. Eric, Lisa Smedman and Phil Athans where also working on an end date for War of the Spider Queen novels |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 10 Feb 2007 23:47:08 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2007 : 23:41:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
As the novels are indeed canon and I'll try hard to ensure the events of Baldur's Gate 2 and Throne of Bhaal make it into the Grand History.
But Dargoth touches on a greater issue. What other events are missing from the timeline? I have a small window of opportunity to send in new updates or corrections, so get me your suggestions as soon as possible. Feel free to post in this forum or send me a private message. The only requirement is that you provide a verifiable reference for any event.
Hmmm... I may just do exactly that. I noticed a few extra tidbits from Throne of Bhaal which could potentially make the cut for the timeline. I'll let you know...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 10 Feb 2007 23:43:06 |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2007 : 00:47:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
But Dargoth touches on a greater issue. What other events are missing from the timeline? I have a small window of opportunity to send in new updates or corrections, so get me your suggestions as soon as possible. Feel free to post in this forum or send me a private message. The only requirement is that you provide a verifiable reference for any event.
Well, obviously numerous recent novels are missing from the timeline, but there are a few older ones, too. Those I know of are:
1372 - Bladesinger, Elminster in Hell, The Shattered Mask, Black Wolf, Heirs of Prophecy, Sands of the Soul
1373 - The Sapphire Crescent, The Alabaster Staff, Son of Thunder, Lady of Poison, Mistress of the Night
1374 - Maiden of Pain, Ghostwalker, Darkvision, Shadowbred
WARNING: Spoilers!
Of those, I would say the events of Lady of Poison (the defeat of the Blightlords and the Rotting Man in Rawlinswood), Mistress of the Night (the discovery and routing of a Sharran cell in Yhaunn), Maiden of Pain (the downfall of the Karanoks in Luthcheq) and Shadowbred (the beginnings of a Sembian civil war, major damage in Yhaunn caused by a kraken, the raising of a Netherese city from the bottom of the sea of Fallen Stars by the Shadovar) are all worthy of descriptive blurbs. Also, the dramatic events towards the end of Crimson Gold (Eltab's assault and defeat at the Thaymount) is a definite candidate.
EDIT: I'd perhaps also go into a bit more detail on the Rage of the Dragons. A few of the short stories from the two Realms of the Dragons anthologies also included some fairly major events, such as "The Strength of the Jester" from RotD 2 (a hefty portion of Beregost is destroyed or damaged). |
Edited by - nbnmare on 11 Feb 2007 00:54:30 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2007 : 01:04:45
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quote:
Originally posted by nbnmare
1372 - Bladesinger, Elminster in Hell, The Shattered Mask, Black Wolf, Heirs of Prophecy, Sands of the Soul
1373 - The Sapphire Crescent, The Alabaster Staff, Son of Thunder, Lady of Poison, Mistress of the Night
1374 - Maiden of Pain, Ghostwalker, Darkvision, Shadowbred
WARNING: Spoilers!
Mistress of the Night (the discovery and routing of a Sharran cell in Yhaunn)
I'd also say that the following in relation to Mistress of the Night is pretty important: The recovery of the Leaves of One Night by Rivalen appears to be a pretty important event according to what was said in Shadowbred |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2007 : 08:48:30
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I second that, KEJr. Potentially quite an important milestone for the church involved.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 01:59:00
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quote:
Originally posted by nbnmare
Of those, I would say the events of Lady of Poison (the defeat of the Blightlords and the Rotting Man in Rawlinswood),
Just clarify:The Rotting Man is defeated, but as I recall the novel doesn't explicitly say he was destroyed, he just retreated to lick his wounds.
quote:
Maiden of Pain (the downfall of the Karanoks in Luthcheq)
Once again: The novel does not explicitly tell us what the outcome of the battle against Luthcheq (at the very end of the book) is, and not all of the Karanoks are gone.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 12 Feb 2007 02:00:50 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 02:56:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by nbnmare
Of those, I would say the events of Lady of Poison (the defeat of the Blightlords and the Rotting Man in Rawlinswood),
Just clarify:The Rotting Man is defeated, but as I recall the novel doesn't explicitly say he was destroyed, he just retreated to lick his wounds.
quote:
Maiden of Pain (the downfall of the Karanoks in Luthcheq)
Once again: The novel does not explicitly tell us what the outcome of the battle against Luthcheq (at the very end of the book) is, and not all of the Karanoks are gone.
In regards to Lady of Poison, I'd say:
I definately agree that the Rotting Man wasn't destroyed, just badly weakened, and in Darkvision, there is kind of an ambiguous mention of the Nentyarch still being in Yeshelmar, which I took to mean that everything might not have been fully resolved just because of the end of Lady of Poison. |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 07:50:04
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
In regards to Lady of Poison, I'd say:
I definately agree that the Rotting Man wasn't destroyed, just badly weakened, and in Darkvision, there is kind of an ambiguous mention of the Nentyarch still being in Yeshelmar, which I took to mean that everything might not have been fully resolved just because of the end of Lady of Poison.
Which is as well, otherwise I'd even be more angered at having bought that novel.
Bocklin |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 15:47:18
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| Odd place for this, but -- has anything further been said concerning the Silver Moon Pact & the werewolf priestess of Selune (from Lady of Night) in the new novels? I liked the whole idea of crusading Selunite werewolves, and I hope more will be done with the idea. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 16:01:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Odd place for this, but -- has anything further been said concerning the Silver Moon Pact & the werewolf priestess of Selune (from Lady of Night) in the new novels? I liked the whole idea of crusading Selunite werewolves, and I hope more will be done with the idea.
It was mentioned, briefly, in one of the recent 3/3.5e sourcebooks..... can't recall which one though. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 16:24:46
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| Champions of Valor sounds likely. And if my memory serves me right, there's some (unofficial) bits in the Realms Bestiary II as well. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 22:01:50
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| Also noticed that the events of the Twilight Giants novels were really covered on the timeline, though outside of Hartsvale those books didn't have much lasting impact. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 23:36:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Odd place for this, but -- has anything further been said concerning the Silver Moon Pact & the werewolf priestess of Selune (from Lady of Night) in the new novels? I liked the whole idea of crusading Selunite werewolves, and I hope more will be done with the idea.
It was actually called the New Moon Pact. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 23:44:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Odd place for this, but -- has anything further been said concerning the Silver Moon Pact & the werewolf priestess of Selune (from Lady of Night) in the new novels? I liked the whole idea of crusading Selunite werewolves, and I hope more will be done with the idea.
You mean, Mistress of the Night.
And most of the lore on the organisation comes from the novel. Tom's entry in BotR Vol. II notes the specific page references from the novel that deal with the New Moon Pact.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 23:49:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And most of the lore on the organisation comes from the novel. Tom's entry in BotR Vol. II notes the specific page references from the novel that deal with the New Moon Pact.
BotR II? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2007 : 00:12:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And most of the lore on the organisation comes from the novel. Tom's entry in BotR Vol. II notes the specific page references from the novel that deal with the New Moon Pact.
BotR II?
Bestiary of the Realms, Volume II. Both of them can be found here. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 13 Feb 2007 00:12:21 |
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nbnmare
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2007 : 00:26:32
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| I know I speculated about Cormanthryn drow turning up in future books of the Twilight War trilogy, but considering the events of book 1, an appearance by members of the New Moon Pact in the second or third novels seems almost mandatory. Of course, if they don't turn up, it wouldn't be the first time a Realms author has had characters from an earlier novel completely ignoring a threat right on their doorstep . |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2007 : 17:14:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And most of the lore on the organisation comes from the novel. Tom's entry in BotR Vol. II notes the specific page references from the novel that deal with the New Moon Pact.
BotR II?
Bestiary of the Realms, Volume II. Both of them can be found here.
thank you sir |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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D-brane
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
140 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2007 : 23:26:10
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I like the Bestiary PDFs. They're great resources for not only FR campaigns . . . . but other worlds as well. So long as you ignore the fluff or generate new world-specific fluff for them for the world you're using them on.
Anyways, I hear there's a printer-friendly version available. Since I want to print my Bestiary PDFs out, but wanting to keep the page count down, is there any chance one of you could provide me with a link to the site holding the printer-friendly version? Or is it one Eric L. Boyd's site? I haven't checked.
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2007 : 23:52:41
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quote:
Originally posted by D-brane
I like the Bestiary PDFs. They're great resources for not only FR campaigns . . . . but other worlds as well. So long as you ignore the fluff or generate new world-specific fluff for them for the world you're using them on.
Anyways, I hear there's a printer-friendly version available. Since I want to print my Bestiary PDFs out, but wanting to keep the page count down, is there any chance one of you could provide me with a link to the site holding the printer-friendly version? Or is it one Eric L. Boyd's site? I haven't checked.
There isn't, not yet. Sage has promised to work on one. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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bitter thorn
Learned Scribe
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2007 : 14:10:20
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I concur.
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think the phrase "not a game supplement" is deceptive, here. To me, it is a game supplement. It may not have rules, PrCs, feats, and other such stuff, but it is a wonderful resource and can only help both DMs and players.
Who will buy it? I'll leave work on my lunch break to go get it. I won't wait for the end of the day. I quite want this, more than a lot of other 2007 releases.
Me too! I have printed the pdf-file, but I WILL buy this book for three reasons:
1) To support Brian's unselfish work all these years (and also to support "fluffy-only" tomes :)
2) For its great content - I have referenced the timelines during every gaming session as the DM
3) For its handy format - a book is always better than a big pile of prints.
GREAT work, Brian!  
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"Nobody listens to the Ranger!"
Our groups are all sticking with 3.X classic Realms. |
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A Grand History of the Realms (product)
