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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Sep 2007 : 02:29:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
4th is great, because they did not kill my favorite deity. *wink* just some friends of the deity.
People have diverse interest in their Realms play, some could have invested more in Silvermoon and another more invested in the Silver March.
The same text will have different inpact on the two different people.
If this is a response to my previous post I don't understand it. My views on 4E rules changes and 4E realms are quite different.
If my reply was directed just to you, it would have been directed to you. My reply was more about "Maybe we could try again to see why from the same rumors/report we have so much a different view on 4E." as that is a reoccuring theme over at the Boards that should not be mentioned. Some like the idea of streamlined SAGA Star Wars idea, others oppose it. What sound good to one person does not sound good to another when looking at the exact same words.
I agree Skill system needed work, I believe there are far too many feats (and it appears some are gone forever), I have seen not world building tools mentioned which was missing from 3.X and not much in prior Editions.
I look for things different then others look for, why should not others look for things that are not being offered at this time or be upset about things taken away (Like certain classes, at leat short term) ? |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2007 : 02:41:57
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So..... theres this product just released, called The grand history of the Realms  |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2007 : 03:05:29
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
So..... theres this product just released, called The grand history of the Realms
Indeed it has been released, ISBN 978-0-7869-4731-7
For those interested a search indicates
quote:
Product search results for A Grand History of the Realms
Grand History of the Realms - $20.30 - Overstock.com
Grand History of the Realms 9780786947317 - $17.97 - Buy.com
Grand History of the Realms - $18.98 - Wal-Mart
Some of discussion about the released product revolves about the most recent years. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 16 Sep 2007 03:06:54 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2007 : 04:33:28
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I still haven't recieved my copy yet.  You guys know more about my book than I do.  |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2007 : 04:41:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
I still haven't recieved my copy yet. You guys know more about my book than I do.
For what its worth Brian, I haven't gotten it yet either, but I'm really looking forward to it, even with the "surprises" tacked onto the later years. I really can't wait to see what the final product looks like. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2007 : 04:41:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
I still haven't recieved my copy yet. You guys know more about my book than I do.
Don't tell me the editors added the 1385 entry after your final submission?  |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2007 : 05:42:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
But at least it makes more sense than the Helm thing. That one is really... weird.
Have you read the complete thing ? (in another message by the same poster on ENWorld)
Summary : Cyric tricked Tyr and Helm into a duel while Tyr was courting Tymora with the help of Helm. (Tyr and Tymora wedding was suggested by Sune to help a kind of "balance").
FR gods doing this kind of "tragedy" is pretty standard.
I had not, but it doesn't change my opinion much. I have no problems with the "tragedy" of it, or even with the potential marriage of Tyr and Tymora. However, regardless of Cyric's involvement, it just doesn't make sense to me. The Even-Handed killing anyone over a "lover's quarrel" just doesn't fit my perception of the god of justice. |
War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
Aermhar of the Tangletrees
Year of the Hooded Falcon
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Guide to the Tomes and Tales of the Realms download from Candlekeep
Anthologies and Tales Overviews
Check out my custom action figures, hand-painted miniatures, gaming products, and other stuff on eBay.
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2007 : 05:51:42
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it occurs in 1384 and it talks about Tyr having to follow "a strict interpretation of his own ideals forces Tyr to challenge Helm and Helm is obliged by is own ideals to meet the challenge". then "Though nothing can be proved, the gods sense the hand of Cyric in Helms death".
other than that, it is fairly vague as to why he felt he had to do battle |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2007 : 06:08:22
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What's interesting is that my friend and I (the friend who played the cleric of Helm in my Mistledale campaign), were brainstorming this and playing "what if." We went with the premise that you still wanted to get the same gods out of the setting, for whatever reason. However, can you do this without the bizarre logic distortion that seems to have to happen with the Tyr/Helm duel.
My friends take (and this man seriously "gets" Helm), was that you could have easily had Helm weary of what some of his clerics have done in his name, and feeling like a failure for having further horrible things happen to Toril without him or his clergy being able to stop it. Helm willingly withdraws from Faerun and "retires" to be Ao guardian and servant full time, and even lets his followers know that they should move on to Tyr or Torm now. Helm withdraws from actively being worshiped and now exists much as Anubis does in Planescape, as a sort of god-like guardian.
I agree with him that this sort of "removal" would have felt more true to the Realms, and not involve jumping through logic hoops to do it. |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2007 : 16:05:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Don't tell me the editors added the 1385 entry after your final submission?
Indeed. My turnover concluded with events up to 1375 DR. Anything after that will be news to me. Wizards wanted to limit the number of people who knew about 4th-Edition, so that's why I was left out of the loop on the new additions to the Grand History. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2007 : 16:42:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Don't tell me the editors added the 1385 entry after your final submission?
Indeed. My turnover concluded with events up to 1375 DR. Anything after that will be news to me. Wizards wanted to limit the number of people who knew about 4th-Edition, so that's why I was left out of the loop on the new additions to the Grand History.
I have seen other authors report the same effect to some degree of the printed version and their final submitted draft. Including stating they did not get their copies of the book while others had been able to purchase it.
Side Note: Perhaps time to give Brian R. James a custom title, after all he has a published Realms product? |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 01:17:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Don't tell me the editors added the 1385 entry after your final submission?
Indeed. My turnover concluded with events up to 1375 DR. Anything after that will be news to me. Wizards wanted to limit the number of people who knew about 4th-Edition, so that's why I was left out of the loop on the new additions to the Grand History.
I have seen other authors report the same effect to some degree of the printed version and their final submitted draft. Including stating they did not get their copies of the book while others had been able to purchase it.
Side Note: Perhaps time to give Brian R. James a custom title, after all he has a published Realms product?
'Our Favourite Brian'?    |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 02:09:41
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
For what its worth Brian, I haven't gotten it yet either, but I'm really looking forward to it, even with the "surprises" tacked onto the later years. I really can't wait to see what the final product looks like.
Me too, although I'll ignore pretty much everything added to the timeline after the last day of 1374 DR. Heck, I'm ignoring certain stuff even before that point (the Last Mythal events, for example).
Regarding the Helm and Tyr thing, what bothers me is the whole premise of a "marriage" between Tyr and Tymora even being necessary. The whole thing started because Siamorphe--an exceedingly minor goddess--left the House of the Triad in a hissy fit and went to Brightwater. Somehow, this event upset the balance of the planes. To sent things back to normal, Sune suggests an arranged marriage between Tyr and Tymora...of all people. Tymora doesn't strike me as the type to settle down with anyone (regardless of her alignment), and...since when have any of the standard, Faerunian deities actually married one another? They take lovers, but marriage doesn't seem like something they've ever really been into.
I mentioned in another thread that if Siamorphe leaving was such a big problem (I still don't see how it is), she could be forced back to her old plane, or one of the other (less selfish) deities could voluntarily take her place--no marriage or courtship required. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 17 Sep 2007 02:10:58 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 04:24:27
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| I am not sure why it is such a big deal either. GHotR states in the 1384 entry that "Siamorphe quarrels with Tyr when the deities take different sides in a clash between Tethyrian and Calimshite forces". nothing else about that situation so far is presented, that offers an explanation of the issue. |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 08:11:52
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
I am not sure why it is such a big deal either. GHotR states in the 1384 entry that "Siamorphe quarrels with Tyr when the deities take different sides in a clash between Tethyrian and Calimshite forces". nothing else about that situation so far is presented, that offers an explanation of the issue.
Yay, more intrigue for the Lands of the Sands. With Siamorphe backing the royals in Tethyr, I wonder what situation the country got themselves into if it would result in opposing views between Siamorphe and Tyr. |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 14:23:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Side Note: Perhaps time to give Brian R. James a custom title, after all he has a published Realms product?
How about 'Humble Chronicler of Realmslore' or 'Lucky Bastard'  |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 16:01:26
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| tomorrow is release date according to amazon germany! I preordered - can't wait for them to deliver.... even though I already know the shocking news of this tome. However, I would have bought it without the info of the years 1376-1385 as well and I would have been much happier without those developments, no doubt! |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 16:18:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Side Note: Perhaps time to give Brian R. James a custom title, after all he has a published Realms product?
How about 'Humble Chronicler of Realmslore' or 'Lucky Bastard'
Considering your work on the Grand History, I think Chronicler of Realmslore or Forgotten Realms Historian would both be good titles.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 18:26:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Side Note: Perhaps time to give Brian R. James a custom title, after all he has a published Realms product?
How about 'Humble Chronicler of Realmslore' or 'Lucky Bastard'
Considering your work on the Grand History, I think Chronicler of Realmslore or Forgotten Realms Historian would both be good titles.
Grand High Chronologiser? |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 22:53:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Side Note: Perhaps time to give Brian R. James a custom title, after all he has a published Realms product?
How about 'Humble Chronicler of Realmslore' or 'Lucky Bastard'
Considering your work on the Grand History, I think Chronicler of Realmslore or Forgotten Realms Historian would both be good titles.
Grand High Chronologiser?
'Most High Brian' (No, Wooly, I'm not drunk! ) |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 23:01:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
So..... theres this product just released, called The grand history of the Realms
Indeed it has been released, ISBN 978-0-7869-4731-7
For those interested a search indicates
quote:
Product search results for A Grand History of the Realms
Grand History of the Realms - $20.30 - Overstock.com
Grand History of the Realms 9780786947317 - $17.97 - Buy.com
Grand History of the Realms - $18.98 - Wal-Mart
Some of discussion about the released product revolves about the most recent years.
Do you happen to be a fellow librarian, too? Because all too often people forget to include ISBN when they're listing bibliographic information... |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 23:27:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Because I know you are not ignorant of RPG theory, I feel you have been fooled, I don't why/how, into seeing 4E differently than I.
Maybe we could try again to see why from the same rumors/report we have so much a different view on 4E.
Maybe it is because different people emphasize different aspects of the game, which is fine, because it really is a matter of personal taste. I'm not saying that 4E will be "wrong" or "a bad RPG system" from everyone's perspective -- I know that there are many who will be very happy with these changes. It is just that I feel that it has little to offer me or my friends (certainly less than 3E).
Maybe it is because there's been so little 'concrete' information about the mechanics, beyond the casual promises that it'll be "cooler", "better", "faster" and provide "more fun". Those are not 'keywords' that I'd want to 'tag' D&D with -- especially because they're really nothing more than subjective opinions of the game designers. What also bothers me greatly is the simplified skill system and adding more 'staying power' and 'oomph' into the character classes. I always wanted my D&D-campaigns to be about *sacrifices*, because the in-built reward system is very powerful, too, and you need some kind of balance. And now they're cutting energy drain, level loss, ability score loss, 'instant death' situations, XP costs to create magic items, etc. If this were not enough, they're generally making the characters *much* more powerful (as I already noted), making resurrection a lot easier, 'powering-up' the multi-classing system, adding character points, etc. I just don't see any balance in it. The sacrifices are out, more rewards are in.
Will it really be "more fun"? If not for anyone else, I think all the powergamers out there are applauding, because now the "ultra-coolness" factor has gone through the roof! From my perspective it seems that D&D is trying to emulate the 'cinematic' (action film) or MMORPG and anime/manga-style 'high-flying' action (I wouldn't be surprised if there are feats or talents such as 'Wings of Steel: You can fly as long as you're holding a long sword in your hand' ;). But we will yet see to what extent they're going with this emphasis, and how succesful 4E will be. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 23:32:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I always wanted my D&D-campaigns to be about *sacrifices*, because the in-built reward system is very powerful, too, and you need some kind of balance.
That's definetly not the right thread for doing it but..
Let's start from that basic thing you want in D&D, try to explain why you want these *sacrifices*, what kind of balance does it achieve ? |
Edited by - Skeptic on 17 Sep 2007 23:33:08 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2007 : 07:26:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
So..... theres this product just released, called The grand history of the Realms
Indeed it has been released, ISBN 978-0-7869-4731-7
For those interested a search indicates
quote:
Product search results for A Grand History of the Realms
Grand History of the Realms - $20.30 - Overstock.com
Grand History of the Realms 9780786947317 - $17.97 - Buy.com
Grand History of the Realms - $18.98 - Wal-Mart
Some of discussion about the released product revolves about the most recent years.
Do you happen to be a fellow librarian, too? Because all too often people forget to include ISBN when they're listing bibliographic information...
It took a librarian (my partner) to teach me about the advantageous of ISBN numbers, it has saved my a lot of trouble when ordering books since. Librarians don't get enough credit. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2007 : 14:15:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
...anime/manga-style 'high-flying' action (I wouldn't be surprised if there are feats or talents such as 'Wings of Steel: You can fly as long as you're holding a long sword in your hand' ;).
Oh god, if it ever comes to that.....
And I want them to keep non-combat related abilities.
Anyways, I have to check out this book, see the rich history of the realms and how the future looks... |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2007 : 14:42:48
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| I finally got my hands on the Grand History and even now, while holding the book in my hands, it's a surreal experience. I spotted a few oddities here and there but overall I am quite pleased with the quality of the final product. Of course, I welcome any questions or feedback about the book. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2007 : 15:04:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
I finally got my hands on the Grand History and even now, while holding the book in my hands, it's a surreal experience. I spotted a few oddities here and there but overall I am quite pleased with the quality of the final product. Of course, I welcome any questions or feedback about the book.
Well met
Splendid news, Brian! Glad you finally got your copy. I can't imagine what an extraordinary feeling it must be, but once again I give me congratulations and praise on this great achievement 
I assume WotC have done your work justice? Are you happy with the pruduction quality and style? (I assume also that the cover is as shown on WotC/Amazon?)
Certainly looking forward to getting my copy of this tome soon. |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2007 : 16:03:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
It took a librarian (my partner) to teach me about the advantageous of ISBN numbers, it has saved my a lot of trouble when ordering books since. Librarians don't get enough credit.
You are very welcome. We always try to do our best.
At last my bookshop has informed me that the GHotR will ship most likely on Friday, 21th of September. I am very glad that Germany is not much behind compared to the US - I have feared it would be worse. At least something to be exited about for this weekend. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 01:54:09
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| I got my book today too. I can't wait to pore through the pages, although probably not tonight. I can also say my feelings haven't changed about the stuff at the end of the timeline. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 02:47:11
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I also got my copy today. And the first thing I had to do, of course, was to read about the controversial future entries...
I'd like to read more of the book, but I've simply got too much on my plate, at the moment. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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A Grand History of the Realms (product)
