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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 16:30:34
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I'm thinking about asking my players to stick with characters of the same gender as they are in real life (wow that sounds awkward.) What do you folks think about this? Would it be sexist? Or allow the players to identify with their PCs more?
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 16:56:04
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I would not do this personally, if a player wants to play a different gender, why not? In a game where one can play races without the slightest relations with humans and wielding powers we can only try to imagine differences in gender wouldn't be the biggest challenge to role playing skills.
Of course this is only an issue if a player wants to play a different gender and then I would say that you will have to talk good to defend not letting it happen. But its your game, and if the players agree, I don't see the problem |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 16:56:18
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| I don't see any universal here. Some players can play characters of the other sex convincingly, others can't. Why are you considering this rule -- have you had trouble? |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 17:01:10
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| No, but my opinion is that players tend to roleplay their own sex better. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 17:20:48
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
No, but my opinion is that players tend to roleplay their own sex better.
I think you're onto something. I've observed myself that players tend to do their own sex better.
But I don't think you should limit players' roleplaying options because of it. Would you stop the bookwyrm amongst the players from playing a barbarian who's dumb as a box of rocks? Of course not. Would you stop a white player from running a black character because of his skin tone? Then, further, ban elves, dwarves, etc. . .
A large part of the fun of D&D is playing someone totally unlike yourself -- what's more different than a radical shift in gender? If a guy in your group wants to challenge himself by playing a gal, why would you stop him? You don't want to stifle the person in your group who thinks he's up to the challenge -- decreases the fun!
I suppose you'd want to do something if the situation is disruptive to the game, in which case it's better to sit him down privately and discuss the issue, rather than institute a global rule.
I've observed the gamut of gender/background/etc in my roleplaying experience. Male players who are totally lost with female characters, or just don't like them, vs. male players who enjoy female characters for the challenge and because it lets them view things from a different perspective. (And vice versa -- female players who exclusively run female characters, or many who run both, or some who always run male characters.)
My background on the issue: I myself have run characters of all different genders, races, and even sexual orientations, and I run about 75% female characters to 25% male. (This is partly because I am usually the DM, and have to run all different sorts of characters, and partly because my current group runs characters along fairly strict gender lines -- the three men usually run men, the two women usually run women, and I'm kind of inbetween. Sometimes I am the balancing act.) It's a comfort thing, of course -- you don't want the players to be uncomfortable with each other -- and my group is pretty open.
So to conclude this very long post, I advise that you make the suggestion clear in the group (i.e. announce any concern you might have), but not institute a rule of some kind.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36880 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 17:24:22
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| I'd not impose such a ruling unless there was need for it. If you don't have someone playing as the opposite gender and causing problems, then there's little need for the rule. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 17:27:16
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Not me. If you want to play an opposite gender, have at it. It's no different then humans playing different races. I mean really, how many demihumans, creatures decended from lower planars or upper planars, etc, do you see wandering around on Earth. :)
So, it's not that far of a stretch for people to play different genders.
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 18:08:03
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| Thanks so much to everyone, especially Eric's lengthy discussion. I decided not to make it a requirement (sanity prevails in my brain, for once !) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36880 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 19:29:23
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
(sanity prevails in my brain, for once !)
That could be problematic, thinks I...  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 19:46:19
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I usually discourage my players to have different gender characters, however if someone insist, and if i am sure she/he can keep up with it i allow him, and in the first 2-3 sessions will be a kind of test, if he RPs right she/he can keep it. Actually this agreement came after a very NOT-female elven (sun) arcane archer from Evermeet.
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 20:17:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
(sanity prevails in my brain, for once !)
That could be problematic, thinks I...
True. DnD is ,after all, organized insanity :) |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 21:17:22
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| its really depends on how good the player is ... if s/he cans ... fair enough ... if it's tried and failed i wouldn't recomment it unless i'm led to believe that it was more the character than the gender that caused it ... or that it was because the player wasn't that good a roleplayer back then |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 22:07:36
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To my thinking, this is a bad idea. It is one thing when someone chooses race "X" because of the bonuses it grants and has no idea how to play it.
It is something quite different to choose a variant sex. There is no intrinsic value to playing a character of a different sex or sexuality than the player. Generally this choice is made by the player to enhance his own experience/enjoyment or to fit an arch-type that he has in his mind.
There's no right or wrong way to play a man or woman. There are all kinds of men and women out there. The point is not to role-play an arch-typical male or female, but to roleplay THIS PARTICULAR male or female with all of their incumbent idiosyncratic routines.
This is like banning a character from having a certain hair or eye combination because you're afraid that they would role-play Blonde Hair and Blue Eyes well. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Dreamstalker
Acolyte
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 23:07:35
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| At the very least, most of us have had exposure to the other gender. I don't know many of us who have had exposure to elves in real life. |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 23:32:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Not me. If you want to play an opposite gender, have at it. It's no different then humans playing different races. I mean really, how many demihumans, creatures decended from lower planars or upper planars, etc, do you see wandering around on Earth. :)
So, it's not that far of a stretch for people to play different genders.
Exactly, my thoughts entirely, and I'm pleased to see that I'm not the only one who feels like this.
I remember having this argument with someone on a forum I used to frequent, so to set about proving my point, I created a new profile pretending to be a girl and played a female character in their forum game for a couple of months with nobody suspecting a thing. So that's not only me posing as a girl in the game, but also as a girl making other posts on the forum. Either it's that easy, or I'm a better roleplayer than I'd given myself credit for. I told a couple of people, who admitted they'd been fooled, but not the main guy as I expected him to say 'Yeah, I thought there was something odd about it from the start' or something to that extent.
He also made the point, which I also disagree with, in saying that he thought most authors couldn't convincingly write the other sex. Now, I'm not saying all can, and Erik is probably right in saying that males write/play males better. But my point was that writing a character like that and roleplaying one are not so different. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 00:19:02
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Most of my characters are female, as I am...but I'd be damned annoyed if someone told me I had to play a female because they doubted my skills at portraying a male.
Like some of the others here, I don't believe that writing or roleplaying the opposite gender is that much of a stretch, especially in a setting where you can play characters that are of different species and of different worlds. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 08:42:07
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Yeah, I think making people play their own gender is VERY Politically Incorrect, especially in this day and age when we have more then two genders.
Would you force a gay player to 'be himself'? Or worse, a gender-confused person? personally, I think Conan in a dress would be funny as hell for a session or two, but it could get pretty disruptive after awhile.
"Live and let live", even in a game. If someone wants to play something as mild as a simple gender-switch, I just thank god its not another conflicted Emo dark Elf ranger. Lord knows there are at least two or three of those in every tavern these days. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Aglaranna
Learned Scribe
166 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 16:13:34
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| I observed that my players prefer to play their own genders, anyway, so this doesn't really come up. I think they're more concerned with who gets the share of the loot than such aesthetic things. (EH! SNEAKYFINGERS! BY ORDER OF THE DM, KEEP YOUR HANDS AWAY FROM THE COOKIE JAR!) *ahem* But my opinion is that, if you WANT to, I guess you should be able to have a go at playing the opposite gender. I personally wouldn't be comfortable with it, but hey, what the heck. If you think about it, DM's got to play all the NPC's anyway, male and female... |
"You can choose a ready guide
In some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide
You still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears
And kindness that can kill
I will choose the path that's clear
I will choose freewill." -'Freewill' by Rush |
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Bluenose
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 16:37:53
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When I'm DMing, I don't mind whether the players have characters that match their genders. I have noticed that it's unusual for them not to, except when they try character types that are unusual in other ways. I'm not sure whether that's partly a matter of distancing themselves slightly froma character they aren't sure they can make work.
When other people are DMing I tend to play male PCs myself. However, one member of the group insists that people roll 1d6 before the start of the campaign, and if they roll a 1 they have to have a character of the opposite gender. But that's Dave. I have noticed that I play female PCs more often than male, or more often than I would in PnP games, when I play various computer games.
On a practical basis I don't see any reason why people can't play characters of the opposite gender. I've certainly had more contact with women than I have with gnomes. |
These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay. |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 16:54:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Would you force a gay player to 'be himself'?
That's a damn good point ! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36880 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 17:12:06
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| I've never played a female character, myself. I've just not felt like it. I don't think I'd like having the option removed, though -- back when I was playing, I sometimes did try character concepts that I regarded as a personal challenge. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Grehnar
Acolyte
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 21:54:18
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In a mixed sex group of players, I've found that this has often become either sexist or strained.
Since then, I've always insisted on players playing the same sex (and weirdly, the same handedness but I can't remember where that one came from!).
It seemed better to make an arbitrary ruling and to avoid the serious arguments. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 22:36:33
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Hmm, still on about this.
Part of the issue likely is experience and skill of the role player. I have played both genders and recieved kisses for doing so without other play knowing my gender or race (have played others craetures as well as human or huminoid).
I believe the problem that many encounter is preceptions of how another gender or rae will react to a ptoblem, where the better solution is havinf some basic understanding of opposit gender reactionor off course the fictional race reaction should one play that option (elves, draweves, orcs, etc.).
A rule saying one can not play a roll of another gender has flaws as some clearly can interact as other gender with few hints of being detected (there is a person that claimed played an opposit gender role on the internet for two years [if not longer] that was not outed/discovered) that leads me to believe some people can clearly play either role. It clearly appears that Ed of Greenwood, as DM, has played both gender roles.
What I suspect is the limitation is more the DM of a game not being able to deal with players not able to acept a player of one gender playing another, or having a hard time telling one player you do it well, when another player does it poorly.
A fixed rule does make it posible to prevent poor roleplay of other gender, this rule however prevents the roleplayers able to more credible understand and play the other gender from doing so.
In the end the DM needs to decide what works for the local group.
Oh left hand, right hand does not matter all that much to me, but I would leave a game that a DM required me to perfer one hand over the other. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Grehnar
Acolyte
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 23:38:52
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Looking back, I think the handedness rule actually came from our players who are more-or-less half left-handers (or right if you prefer). Kind of an identity thing during one game which carried on as harmless baggage rather than anything else. All dodgy rules are there to be debated and cast aside if they cause problems. Nonetheless, these two remain in stark contrast to each other.
The problems arising from bad role playing coming over as sexism / (insert appropriate bigotry) came from the experience of losing people from players not being PC enough. A balance of sensibilities over sense you may think.
More like survival of the group over the years.
Good luck in finding new groups if such minor niggles offend. Not everyone is so lucky. |
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Lady Morbannaon
Acolyte
United Kingdom
42 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2007 : 00:35:40
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| The group I DM for are all guys (i'm the only girl) although when they game three of them (we have 5 gamers normally) play female characters. I've never had a problem with them being played awkwardly in fact sometimes they roleplay them better then they do when they are roleplaying character of their own sex. As long as the player is comfortable and is able to roleplay it well I don't see a problem in it. |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2007 : 00:59:27
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I wouldn't endorse a ruling where you had to play your own gender. Some of my most memorable characters are female. I prefer to play female characters because this is just yet another character choice, like elves, dwarves, gnomes, and halfings, that I don't get to be in real life. It's about escapism. I don't know if I play my female characters "right" or not, whatever that means, but I do play them as I'd play any male character, in that, I do what I can to stay alive.
I've also never found myself in situations where my character's female gender is brought up in game in some metagame manner, so issues of "well, your character would never do that because she's female" just don't happen, and good thing too, because I'd have to reach over and slap the DM for playing my character for me.  |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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LordXenophon
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 21:31:42
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
I'm thinking about asking my players to stick with characters of the same gender as they are in real life (wow that sounds awkward.) What do you folks think about this? Would it be sexist? Or allow the players to identify with their PCs more?
I think this is an excellent idea. While you're at it, you should require them to play their own races. How can a Human possibly know how to properly play a Dwarf? |
Disintegration is in the eye of the Beholder. |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 21:36:40
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Then again we have plenty of sourcebooks telling us what Dwarf's are like, Halfling traits, and Elven likes/dislikes.
Whoever wrote a 'Woman' sourcebook would likely either be wrong, or get a slap, or both  |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 22:02:25
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| LOL, my sister sternly refuses to play females in fantasy games. Her experiences have been, shall we say, troubled... even when I told her females are equals to males in the Realms she insisted on playing a dude. *shrug* and she can swear and shout with the worst of the guys 'round the table also. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 23:04:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Grehnar
Since then, I've always insisted on players playing the same sex (and weirdly, the same handedness but I can't remember where that one came from!).
For some reason, that amused me. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Grehnar
Acolyte
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2007 : 22:06:29
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I'm glad someone else saw the funny side before the debate became all serious again.
I'm also glad that most people don't seem to have to make such a ruling.
Incidentally, even after (now international) debate these two wierd house-rules still stand within our group. |
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Making a player play his/her gender in the game
