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kahonen
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Sep 2002 : 22:33:09
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I've just been looking on the WotC website and found this gem. Can someone please tell me what WotC hope to achieve with this:
The Book of Vile Darkness
Targeted toward mature audiences, Book of Vile Darkness deals with material that has never been explored in the D&D roleplaying game. Elements such as moral dilemma, slavery, human sacrifice, and other sensitive issues will be treated in a mature fashion to allow players to add a level of complexity to their campaigns. Also included are evil monsters; dark prestige classes; unique spells, magic items, and artifacts; and adventure material, as well as rules and advice to help Dungeon Masters create and play truly corrupt villains or run more intense campaigns.
http://www.wizards.com/catalog/product.asp?881610000
It has never failed to amaze me just how little WotC has understood Dungeons and Dragons. For years D&D players have been accused of being "devil worshippers" or "satanists". Now just as D&D seems to be getting a better press WotC produce this masterpiece.
Is it just me or does anyone else think this book is totally unnecessary?
Does putting "targetted towards mature audiences" achieve anything other than making sure that kids buy it(thereby increasing WotC income)?
Do we actually need another book with yet more prestige classes, magic items and "unique spells" all of which is just another attempt to create supermen?
Hands up all the players who've encountered a moral dilemna and needed a book to tell them how to handle it.
I find this totally pathetic and get the awful feeling this may be the shape of things to come. If I wanted encouragement to include things like this in my games I'd be playing Vampyre or something similar 
Still it may not be a problem if the last couple of releases are anything to go by. It'll probably never appear on bookcases over here.
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Edited by - Alaundo on 24 Aug 2004 10:04:34
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2002 : 22:45:28
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There appears to be a lot of discussion on this product lately, and a lot of offended and unhappy people. Im wondering if it will actually see the light of day, not sure how far through the printing process it is at the moment, and even if it is distributed (very likely), then it may get such a bad reception that it could be pulled from circulation, in much the same way that "The Complete Book of Necromancers" did.
I personally WILL buy the book, partly because i love D&D and wouldnt want to leave it out my collection. Im not sure of the full content, but i hear that issues such as prostitution, rape, drugs etc are within the cover which I think is pointless and will only cause our beloved hobby a lot of harm. I dont mind evil monsters appearing in the product, theres nothing wrong with a demon or evil spirit really in the D&D world, although some will argue that. But looking at some of the creatures currently available, especially certain types of undead, it cant be that much worse.....can it?!
I think theres also a section on poisons which i dont mind, drow have been dipping arrowheads with poison for a long time...
Im not sure what to expect from this book, but im not going to judge it harshly before ive had change to check it over. I just hope it doesnt damage the D&D image which seems to have finally begun to shine and shook off that "devil worshipping" shroud.
Rad |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Edited by - Lord Rad on 18 Sep 2002 22:46:06 |
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Strahd Von Zarovich
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
135 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2002 : 22:55:12
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I recently read an article which was sent to me (Which in turn was posted on a forum here:-)
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24200
The post was about a news letter that Tracy Hickman wrote about this book. This was the first I had heard about this book, and I was totally with Tracy on this one and I agreed that it was a very bad move.
Obviously I run a site which is about Ravenloft, the gothic horror setting of the D&D world. Which contains many evils. But a product like this is still not neccessary. We didn't need it before and we dont need it now. We dont want to bring these elements into our game.
Like Rad said there are a few things in there like poisons and such, which could have easily been covered in other books. The demon side of things I am not too keen on as they were the things that gave the game the bad image in the first place, and besides we have a greater selection of wondrous beasts as it is, and we dont need this bland rubbish.
I would be glad if this one never made it to print!
The Curator
Strahds Library
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Strahd Von Zarovich
Alaundo and I invite fans of everything D&D to join us!
http://www.worldsofdnd.com |
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ArcticKnight
Learned Scribe
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2002 : 00:57:45
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Hmm, im gonna have to take the side of printing this book.
i think that those things that the book will be about are part of DnD, face it demons and evil are needed to play in the first place.
but i have to ask u guys that think it shouldnt be printed, do u picket with others that DnD is bad? ( i doubt it but still)
there will always be a Stigma attached to DnD that IS LIFE, it will never change. although the book may be contraversial, so was the Fiend Folio and Guide to Hell of its times.
also im not the least bit suprised that this book was concieved and approved all i ever see on boards and other sites is Artemis rocks, Drizzt sux, Manshoon rox, Elminster sux,
ITS NOT WOTC ITS THE PLAYERS!!!!!!! that influance what is printed.
it clearly states its for a mature audiences so i see nothing wrong with it. i mean damn have u ever looked at 1st ed. stuff? naked women in the books, intoxication tables, the works!!!
and in the end, it seems WOTC DnD dept. seems unstable these days, its already bad enough that non-DnDers protest but what will happen when DnD'ers join them????????? |
"The man who does not read has little advantage over the man who cannot read."
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kahonen
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2002 : 01:17:21
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I believe there is a distinct difference between the apparent contents of something like The Book of Vile Darkness and the Ravenloft setting. In Ravenloft a lot of the evil acts are inferred but with this book it appears that WotC are saying "you should have this in your games" and are seen to be condoning and even encouraging it.
I've played many games in Ravenloft and haven't needed to be told how to handle human sacrifice or other things of that ilk.
You are missing the point completely, Arctic Knight. Yes, there's always been demons and evil in D&D but the game is about the struggle between good and evil. We all it know it happens, it doesn't need WotC to publish a book which seems to encourage slavery, rape, human sacrifice and "other sensitive issues". It's down to image and this doesn't help the image of D&D.
In answer to your question "have u ever looked at 1st ed. stuff? naked women in the books, intoxication tables, the works". Yes,I have. It was these books that resulted in D&D having the name it had at the time. D&D has "grown up" since then. I'm surprised that anyone would want to go back there.
As for it stating that it's for mature audiences, it wouldn't surprise me if that's not a ploy to increase sales (it's been done before). All it will do is encourage kids to buy it.
Your point that the players determine what is produced for D&D I can see evidence of at all. A quick look around other forums and web sites would leave WotC in no doubt what is needed - it's not this book.
Finally, I believe that after playing D&D for 27+ years I have every right to protest when someone brings out a product which I seriously believe can bring nothing but harm to what has become a large part of my life. I've been defending D&D for an awful long time and thought for a while it wasn't necessary any more - I was obviously wrong. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2002 : 10:00:44
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Youve hit the nail on the head Kahonen, stamping the product with "mature audiences only" is an open invitation for younger players to purchase the book. Its human nature to desire the forbidden fruit!
Whilst I am quite looking forward to the book in a way, part of me is cringing at the thought of some of the issues which may be within. Like I mentioned earlier, demons, poisons and evil characters will likely have a place in my campaign, but any atrosities in the form of rape etc. will definatly be left out.
Issues such as prostitution can be hinted at in an adventure and in novels (theres mentions of it in the novel I just finished reading - "Shadows Witness"), hearing wenches giggles and "goings-on" in a private tavern arent a problem, and thats all needs to be said, how can they do a section on it in a rule book?!?
Im not going to slate the book anymore, ill wait to see how it turns out when i buy it...... after all, it may be all rosy in print! 
Rad |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Strahd Von Zarovich
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
135 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2002 : 18:29:53
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quote:
Originally posted by kahonen
In Ravenloft a lot of the evil acts are inferred but with this book it appears that WotC are saying "you should have this in your games" and are seen to be condoning and even encouraging it.
I agree on this one. Topics such as rape can be easily inferred, especially in a Ravenloft setting where vampires prey on women and attack them without their consent to use them for their own needs.
Saying that I have heard today that the reports on the Drugs, rape and prostitution have been hyped up considerably, and the author himself has stated that those things will not be in the print, and if they are then someone has done some major tampering with the product.
So we will now wait and see.
The Curator
www.strahds-library.co.uk
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Strahd Von Zarovich
Alaundo and I invite fans of everything D&D to join us!
http://www.worldsofdnd.com |
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kahonen
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2002 : 20:41:09
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Perhaps I've been caught up in the hype, then. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt until it's published.  |
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Zacas
Learned Scribe
USA
261 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2002 : 02:45:15
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Though it may be bad to ask...
Is poison used in our world (*gasp* the dreaded real world) Is rape commited? Does prostitution occur? Does Slavery still occur, whether known by many or not? Ask this kind of stuff about a lot of what is seeming to be covered by this new book, and the answers will most likely be yes... except for maybe the 'are demons real'... well that'd depend on what you consider demons.
Some would say that this stuff could make the game more realistic. Oh and let me say this for emphasis. DND IS JUST A GAME!!!! No i won't promote the use of this stuff in a game... it is an option... but the stuff COULD make the game a little more realistic. Yes... SOME people may get a little TOO involved in DnD and forget it is JUST A GAME. Hence why the bad rep was put on the game to begin with... SOME people took it too far and started to REALLY act out the game and do the bad things. Who cares what people think of the game? Obviously it doesn't matter if some people think that just because a game has demons and monsters, that it means all whom play the game are devil worshippers. That's just as bad as a few years ago when Duke Nukem and such type shoot-and-kill games were said to be the cause of stuff like the Columbine tragedy. 5 years ago in highschool, people THOUGHT i'd pull a columbine-like thing (though this was before the tragedy occured) all cause my RL problems got me into the 'pissed at the world' attitude, but i did NOT do such a thing, as i am not stupid.
If people want to think that just because a game includes bad things that DO happen in the real world. That is their problem, they are the paranoid ones. Who cares what others think. As i was going to say before, if it mattered what SOME paranoid people thought of DnD years back as something to "promote the worship of the possible 'devil'"... would DnD still be here? No, DnD survived because the majority of people realized... again i'll say it with emphasis... DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS IS A GAME... ONLY A GAME, AND NOTHING BUT A GAME. Fictionous, not real, fake, false... okay i'll leave it at that... hehe...
I do think the book should be published, as it will give the OPTION to POSSIBLY make the game more realistic. Though a 'mature audience' label should hold more weight, and be like Playboy mags, where gameshops and such have to have a license to sell it, or the parents should buy it and know of the product. But that'll never happen. It all depends on the DM and the players, and HOPEFULLY the realization that the game is NOT REAL LIFE, it is exactly that, a GAME.
Again... i do NOT promote the USE of such things as rape, prostitution or such in anyones campaign... i just promote the OPTION to be able to do such.
Okay... I'm done ranting... i just never see the point in why people get riled up over stuff that is based on a fictionous game. |
I am like a superhero, with no powers or motivation.
I have gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, please keep me here.
People like you are the reason people like me are on medication. |
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Zacas
Learned Scribe
USA
261 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2002 : 02:13:46
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Heh... seems my post got everything to become silent around here...   |
I am like a superhero, with no powers or motivation.
I have gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, please keep me here.
People like you are the reason people like me are on medication. |
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Ghost
Acolyte
Netherlands
38 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2002 : 12:45:33
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*Sarcasm mode on*
I say, let's burn those books, and let's torch WotC!
*Sarcasm mode off*
Guys, allowing this book and its content in your game, is STILL your choice! If you don't like it, don't use.
But I know a couple of people, who like their games to be darker and grittier than standard fantasy. No frollicking elves, no enchanting nymphs, but a mostly human society seen at its worst. They also play heroes by circumstance, not by choice. I agree, they are all at 20+, but in a mature environment, this book won't do any harm.
Ghost |
The way of a superior man are three-fold;
virtuous, he is free from anxieties;
wise, he is free from perplexities;
bold, he is free from fear. ~ Confucius
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2002 : 13:15:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Strahd Von Zarovich
Obviously I run a site which is about Ravenloft, the gothic horror setting of the D&D world. Which contains many evils. But a product like this is still not neccessary. We didn't need it before and we dont need it now. We dont want to bring these elements into our game.
Before this book ever saw the light of day, a sort of predecessor circulated already on the internet: The complete book of caranal knowledge. While I personally don't like that book and won't use it, the widespread availability on various sites at the time proves that there was some sort of demand for the subject, whether it was actually used or not.
Like Ghost said, it is up to the individual to decide wether or not they want to use the book. One is given a choice, no-one makes use of the book mandetory.
For those that will not buy this book because of it's as of yet unkown actual contents, have they ever played an evil character? Isn't that just as not needed for the game? Where would one draw the line then?
The discussion around this subject is like walking across a minefield. None of the questions can really be answered in an objective way. It will be up to each individual to decide wether or not to buy and use this book. For some it will hold value-add to the game, fo others it won't. |
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kahonen
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2002 : 19:18:02
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I think perhaps Zacas, Ghost and Mumadar need to read my initial post.
You appear to have missed my original point completely. It was a simple question - Is the book necessary? That's all.
I get the impression that quite a lot of people posting here are fairly young and may not have had to put up with the hassle of defending the game to other people. I have and don't particularly want to go back to those days.
As for "not buying the book if you don't want to" - again this misses the point completely. It's not players that concern me , we all know that this type of thing happens (in my games just as much as anyone else's). The point is that people who haven't got a scoobies of what D&D is about, have never played and have probably never even seen a game played can and will form an inaccurate opinion of the game from seeing this book on a bookshelf.
As for ZACAS pointing out that D&D is a game - once again point missed completely. I know it's a game, you know it's a game, every player and DM I've ever met know it's a game. It's the non-players who will react the loudest to the publication of this book.
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2002 : 19:53:08
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Valid point kahonen, and I agree that we shouldn't have to defend our hobby towards other people.
Though there are many other publications from 2e and 3e that could evoke a similar reaction if just the title of a book would scare people away. Lords of Darkness does almost sound as omnious as The Book of Vile Darkness.
Now if people would pick up the book and browse through it, that might be a little different. Yet I find it hard to comment on that given the fact that I don't know the actual content of the book. Which might be much less controversial then we are led to be believe in the 'hype' that surrounds this product.
The Book of Vile Darkness
Targeted toward mature audiences, Book of Vile Darkness deals with material that has never been explored in the D&D roleplaying game. Elements such as moral dilemma, slavery, human sacrifice, and other sensitive issues will be treated in a mature fashion to allow players to add a level of complexity to their campaigns. Also included are evil monsters; dark prestige classes; unique spells, magic items, and artifacts; and adventure material, as well as rules and advice to help Dungeon Masters create and play truly corrupt villains or run more intense campaigns.
I personally cannot find anything wrong with the wording in the above text. Other then maybe the fact that WotC put the disclaimer in there about a mature audience. That comment alone probably sparks more discussion then the rest of the text.
The way I read the text is that this book tries to aid the DM in dealing with the topics mentioned. All topics that regulary appear in games as well as being mentioned in other game products.
The last sentence: Also included are evil monsters; dark prestige classes; unique spells, magic items, and artifacts; and adventure material, as well as rules and advice to help Dungeon Masters create and play truly corrupt villains or run more intense campaigns. These are all terms and words that have also been used with other products.
I wonder if the 'hype', as has happened more often on products being discussed, is not caused by the 'unknown' factor. When I was still on the FR-list, I have seen various rants and raves about upcoming products, especially when 3e was announced and a few details were released. People were taking very extreme and often insulting positions towards the designers, just beacuse they didn't know what was coming and were afraid of what the content of the products might be.
I'm not trying to put this label on anyone in the current discussion. It is just meant as an illustration of my argument.
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kahonen
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2002 : 20:33:21
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Fair comment. As I said a few posts up the thread, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and wait and see  |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2002 : 08:52:27
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| Actually that's the same here. And given that it's not a Realms product, it is not the highest priority on my wish list. |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2002 : 13:37:42
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Having seen a little more on the Book of Vile Darkness in Dragon #300, I must say I have a little more reservations towards the book. I don't know if the excerpt in Dragon is truely representative of the entire book.
In the 'open' part of the article, the author tries to explain 4 levels of maturity for the game, kind of like movie ratings. The ratings sound fairly well chosen, eventhough there will be blurry edges between them (Like it is always with such classifications).
The 'closed' section (you'll have to take a knife or scissors to your Magazine...) gives some dark necromancy spells (a trifle darker IMO then the 2e Necromancer's Handbook) and provides a little content of the Book of Vile Darkness.
After reading the article, I must admit that there were a few items more or less hinted at of which I wonder if they are really value add to the game. Other items; e.g. how to deal with slavery, are more closer to the game and might be a good help for the DM.
As a whole, my (premature?) conclusion based only on the Dragon article would be that the Book of Vile Darkness is a product for the DM. And then a product where he/she should carefully think about before introducing elements into the game. The 'open' article does give some fair warnings in this regards and I hope the introduction of the book repeats and embellishes on this topic a little.
my 2cp |
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Jeffrey Williams
Acolyte
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2002 : 05:19:29
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Well, I purchased my copy Thursday afternoon and if the content in Dragon Magazine was any indicator of what the book was going to contain, well, it hit the mark.
One, BoVD is not a player's handbook. It is strictly a DM's book and a book for building very powerful and very deady NPCs. The book is geared to challenge low level characters, if played right, and obliterate over-powered PC above twelfth level or higher
Two, many of the ideas and concepts presented in BoVD are hardly new. With exception of the prestige classes, much of the material in BoVD has been released in one edition or another. I am talking about monsters and unique demons, devils, netherworld creatures, and ideas like demonic possession. Many of the Archlords and Dukes of Hell get the 3E fleshing as do old Demon-Lord favorites like Jubilex, Orcus, and Demongorgon.
This book is a good resource material for DMs who wish to center a campaign around an lower planar invasion, or better yet in the 3E Ravenloft campaign setting.
All in all, the adult content warning blub in unnecessary. I rate the book as a PG-13 or R rated-movie sort of thing. Honestly, I do not understand what the big fuss is... |
Geoffrey Mordraith, Sage, Cleric of Helm, Bearer of the Morning Star
devilboy@anv.net
www.bigbluepigeon.blogspot.com
www.thefourthportal.blogspot.com |
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Dr. Cruel
Acolyte
1 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2002 : 22:48:03
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My problem with the book was that it was juvenile. Admittedly this is a D&D offering, but honestly I expected a more comprehensive examination of how to handle slavery, torture, poisons, necromancy, etc., not a rehash of the old demons ("pre-tana'ari") in 1st Edition AD&D.
Kinda cheesy. The price tag is way steep, for what you get. This one seems to be all about "buzz", which is why all the stink - frankly D&D is not the big game it used to be, so the general mainstream public really could care less these days where the hobby is going, thus this "buzz" is all about retailers getting gullible gaming folks to salivate over "the naughty book".
My apologies to Hickman. There isn't a "Fight" anymore to lose or win. It looks like computer games are the present target, not old-fashioned yesterdays paper&pencil RPGs, so all this controversy is strictly in-house, and not worht the bother at that. |
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Patheros
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2002 : 14:20:43
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I just got the book and would like to point out that the review of the book is wrong.
The book does have 27 pages of spells, 12 pages of magical items, 4 pages of feats, 26 pages prestige classes and 46 pages devils and demons and other dark lords, 18 pages of evil monsters, a whole first chapter 18 pages long that talks about (very few actual rules) evil acts, evil races, evil villains, and evil places. Of actual rules it has 3 pages on possession (mentally taking over some one else, what is evil about this I do not know), 2 pages on sacrifice, 2 pages of curses, 2 pages of diseases, 3 pages on other evil things (the calling, dark chant, dark speech, souls as power, pain as power, hive mind, vile damage, evil weather), 2 pages on lingering evil, 3 pages on torture and execution equipment, 1 page of traps, 2 pages on drugs, 2 pages on poisons, and a page on evil spell components (these things give bonuses when castings spells).
I would like to ask if I missed anything. I would like to point out that the reviews say the book will talk about prostitution and slavery(some of the more controversial topics), but These topics are not in the book. |
-Patheros
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Exilion
Seeker
60 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2002 : 16:30:52
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Patheros,
Calm down, friend. Not everything in written literature will always be right, and, as I am an enthusiastic story writer in Candlekeep, I am sure that not everyone who puts their reviews forward will always be correct. Go easy on Kahonen, he is good really.
Exilion |
Bring forth power unto my reign |
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Patheros
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2002 : 17:33:24
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| You misunderstand my tone. I simply want to do 2 things. First see if have just missed something and second warn others. |
-Patheros
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2003 : 16:26:02
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| While admittingly I only skimmed through it to see what kind of stuff was in it, I was dissappointed with what I found. They ommitted the Yugoloths and Night Hags completely-I wanted to see some information on the Baernoloths, dammit! I probably would have been more impressed if I had not already read the Guide to Hell, half of the non-technical information basically rehashed the contents of that book. |
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chuck
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2003 : 02:37:44
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| I am definitely very pro BoVD, not only because of new rules, but because things like drugs, crime and other contraband (which are detailed in the book) can really add a lot of realism and depth to a campaign, esppcecially in an urban setting. It can also add plenty of variety to playing an evil campaign, which seems to be the direction our party is going anyway, more than just the regular run around, pilage, murder and steal routine, which gets boring awfully quick. Also, all of the demons and devils were translated from second edition. And to all of you that are against having this book published, keep in mind you don't have to buy it, and if d&d is taken down by Catholics and the PMRC because of the book, it won't be made illegal, and you can still keep playing it with what you already have. |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2003 : 19:10:04
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I don't like stats and combat abilities for quasi-deities. If my character needs to fight Asmodeus to be challenged, it's time to retire him.
The other parts of BoVD might be interesting. I see nothing wrong with it as long as retailers heed the "mature only" admonition. I wouldn't want my 12-year old nephew to play Rainbow 6, but adults should be able to if they want to. Who really cares if non-RPGers think RPGers are devil worshippers?
I think there was an old game called Fantasy Wargaming that had stats for Jesus and Satan. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2003 : 00:24:01
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HAH!!! Book of VIle Darkness my A@@!!!
I bought the book of vile darkness and the only thing I found useful was the DARK SPEECH and Soul rules. The book is pretty cheesy otherwise. It was hardly vile. It only put into official writing some of the things I have been doing for years (I do not run a VILE game) but every now and then I like to make the evil adversaries completely Loathsome. I have used sacrifice, sex, slavery, rape, and vileness when it served a purpose to advance the story. It is not a staple, but it happens when I am using particulalrly vile villains.
Of course all my players are 20+ in age and no one minds. But the book of vile darkness only helped me in finding rules for souls, and Dark speech. Other than that it is a joke.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2003 : 00:43:28
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I had never considered buying it, but thanks for the heads up, mournblade. If you posted your opinion earlier, I didn't look hard enough to find it.  |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2003 : 04:33:36
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Well, I'll agree that this book isn't for everybody, and after reading the posts on this thread, I seem to be in the minority when I say I really like this book, and will buy more of the same if they are released. There are numerous things in it that are great for creating villains and arch-nemesis type characters. I mainly like the spells and abilities that are in there. And as I've said on another post somwhere, our GM uses this book in our current campaign to both our joy and chagrin. (We love the grittiness and realism it gives the game, but we hate it when it affects our PC's )
In answer to Kahonen: Is this book neccessary? Not neccessarily (no pun intended), but I'm glad it's available. It enhances the game. Do you have to buy it? No. Will I buy it? Hell yes, because I love stuff like this. As I said, our group is into the grittiness and realism of the game, and books like this just give more ideas to that end. Frankly, I'm surprised that anyone is still worrying about having to defend our hobby to people who obviously will never accept it for what it is. A GAME! And yes, I AM old enough to remember having to do just what you're refering to. And my answer to them hasn't changed since then. To those people I say "I don't give a rat's ass what you think of my hobby. I know what it is, and would be willing to show you what it is. But if you continue to harrass me because I choose to participate in it, you will have a very large problem on your hands." I'm sorry that you think their opinion means so much. Me, I think they're a bunch of ignorant and hateful people who want to force their own morals and ethics on us and our hobby, so I didn't give them a second thought then, and don't now.
As far as them labeling it 'for mature audiences', yes they should. I wouldn't want a ten year old reading this thing. But it's not my responsibility to prevent that from happening. It should be the retailers, or more importantly, the 10 year old's parents responsibility. That's WHY they have the power of descision. It's the exact same thing as with mature video games. I love Grand Theft Auto III, but I wouldn't want a ten year old playing it, and it should be the responsibilty of the retailer/parents to prevent that 10 year old from buying it, not mine or yours. |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2003 : 07:11:20
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Ack! There's someone else here with the avatar I chose? Sure, he hasn't posted for longer than I've been here, but I thought I was the only one . . . .  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Cult_Leader
Learned Scribe
USA
337 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2003 : 20:56:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Ack! There's someone else here with the avatar I chose? Sure, he hasn't posted for longer than I've been here, but I thought I was the only one . . . .
Bookwyrm, what do you think about the book of vile darkness? Is it worth my time in buying it? |
"Madness you say! Do you fear me? Are you afraid of what I might do, of what I might say? What a fascinating reaction. Don't you find it somewhat encumbering?"
Piddles assumes a deep and resonant voice. "Space...the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the starship...Garou. It's mission: to slay Wyrm creatures where they live and breed. To accumulate more Garou than the world's entire population. To produce metis like no one has before." - Piddles
"Aren't you people supposed to be doing something? Like, entertaining me, the fascist wizard?" - InleRah
I have the passwords to the minds of everyone and the cheat codes to the universe - Me |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2003 : 23:42:34
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Cult_Leader:
quote:
Bookwyrm, what do you think about the book of vile darkness? Is it worth my time in buying it?
I realize you're asking for Bookwyrm's opinion, not mine or anyone else's, but the consensus of the thread seems to be that it's worth buying. |
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The Book of Vile Darkness
