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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 12:12:22
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how do you mix two diffent elven races ... like if you would make a Aquatic/sun elf ... or an Avariel/moon elf ?
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what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Lawfire
Acolyte
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 12:34:09
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| I read somewhere that they breed true, meaning, a half wood/half moon elf would be either a moon or wood elf. I can't remember where I read that, but I will attempt to find it. In the mean time, some elf expert is likely to come along. |
Faerun Roleplaying
http://www.faerunrp.com/forum/index.php |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 12:34:34
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The general rule/advice was that the child takes on atributes of one parent. This to prevent the problem of increasing abilities (weaker then base because of firther from full blood sub race).
The only other math way to try to do this is average ability. A half Avariel/moon elf for example would not be permitted to fly as long or fast, Average life span changed, etc. This though can lead to strange results and of course half elf half human does not follow this rule.
Of course could just leave it to the DM to house rule what is believed to be balance. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 13:02:50
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| Some races breed more dominant than others. For example Drow with any elf always breeds true Drow |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 17:33:49
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The FR material, and Ed's comments, say that you really don't get a half-elf-elf.
If a elf mates with a half-elf, it creates a elf. I.E if a sun elf mates with a half-moon elf, it's still a sun elf.
If a human mates with a half-elf, it creates a human. I.E if a Chondathan human mates with a half-sun elf, it would be a Chondathan human.
If a half-elf mates with a half-elf, it creates another half-elf. I.E if a half-wood elf mates with a half-moon elf it would be either a half-wood elf or a half-moon elf.
Why? Who knows. Maybe it's elven genetics/magic. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 18:43:14
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| Kuje ... it might be a bad threadtitle but you could at least read my post instead of posting towards the title ... i have at no time talked about regular half-elf/half-humans ... the only thing i've talked about is two diffent kind of elves and questioned what kind of child they'll get |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 20:40:35
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Then if two elves mate, it takes after one or the other race. I.E. if a sun and moon elf mate then their child is either a full sun or a full moon elf.
This is also been in the sourcebooks and Ed's comments. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2006 : 21:41:34
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Thanks Kuje, I actually always wondered about this subject. Now what happens when a Sun Elf and a tanari'ri mate?  You get a kick butt trilogy series of books by Richard Baker!  But really, thanks for the info Kuje. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 01:03:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
Some races breed more dominant than others. For example Drow with any elf always breeds true Drow
Actually, I think it usually breeds a drow, not always. But maybe someone can check up on this.
As for the original question, an elf has to be one race--there are no elves that "split the difference". Pick the race of either parent. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 21 Nov 2006 01:04:13 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 01:09:06
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There was the subrace dominate, Drow often but fair posible. There was a rare chance of a Drow looking like a fair elf, there was a Drow/Fair elf that skin tone was a mix (not dark, not fair) with random eye color and hair color. I do not know what is current cannon concerning the "stronger" Drow gene.
IAE Ed has always left open rare exceptions to any rule that occur from time to time. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 04:41:51
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| I was always under the impression that 2 elves of differing subraces mating, results in the offspring being one or the other(of the player's choice). I don't remember discussions pertaining to dominate traits or any combo elflings as a result |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 04:48:20
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
I was always under the impression that 2 elves of differing subraces mating, results in the offspring being one or the other(of the player's choice). I don't remember discussions pertaining to dominate traits or any combo elflings as a result
This indeed was the default. There however was some lore (perhaps no longer canon) that the Drow gene was superior (likely in one of the splat books). In part becuase trying to come up with rules for odd combinations resulted in odd results. There of course also was an answer that certain races could not cross breed, but that failed to work well with a sub-race. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 05:46:16
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
I was always under the impression that 2 elves of differing subraces mating, results in the offspring being one or the other(of the player's choice). I don't remember discussions pertaining to dominate traits or any combo elflings as a result
Neither do I but a few people have mentioned it over the years, but usually they never supply what source it's from. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 21 Nov 2006 06:21:09 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 05:57:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
I was always under the impression that 2 elves of differing subraces mating, results in the offspring being one or the other(of the player's choice). I don't remember discussions pertaining to dominate traits or any combo elflings as a result
Neither do I but I few people have mentioned it over the years but usually never supply what sourcebook it's from.
Exactly, I looked through all of my 2E and 3.x stuff and nada. I am trying to remember Ed's talks on this subject, but come to the same conclusion that I already posted. Maybe this would be a question to pose to Ed  |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 00:50:02
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| True. Although, it kind of also brings us back where we started--just have the player in question pick the race of either parent. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 03:01:17
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Demihuman Deities implies that the drow genetics are dominant, but it doesn't flat out state it. From page 38, under the "Day-to-Day Activities" section of Vhaeraun's write-up:
quote:
Contact and marriage with other elven races is encouraged. Half-drow usually breed true back into the drow race; Vhaeraun sees this practice inexorable raising drow numbers in surface lands.
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 14:39:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Demihuman Deities implies that the drow genetics are dominant, but it doesn't flat out state it. From page 38, under the "Day-to-Day Activities" section of Vhaeraun's write-up:
quote:
Contact and marriage with other elven races is encouraged. Half-drow usually breed true back into the drow race; Vhaeraun sees this practice inexorable raising drow numbers in surface lands.
I dunno, that doesn't seem any different, to me, then if a half-moon elf mated with a moon elf, the elven race would breed back true, etc.... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 15:14:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Demihuman Deities implies that the drow genetics are dominant, but it doesn't flat out state it. From page 38, under the "Day-to-Day Activities" section of Vhaeraun's write-up:
quote:
Contact and marriage with other elven races is encouraged. Half-drow usually breed true back into the drow race; Vhaeraun sees this practice inexorable raising drow numbers in surface lands.
I dunno, that doesn't seem any different, to me, then if a half-moon elf mated with a moon elf, the elven race would breed back true, etc....
Yeah, but it specifically mentions other elven races, which implies that any drow/elf pairing is more likely to result in a drow. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 15:25:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Demihuman Deities implies that the drow genetics are dominant, but it doesn't flat out state it. From page 38, under the "Day-to-Day Activities" section of Vhaeraun's write-up:
quote:
Contact and marriage with other elven races is encouraged. Half-drow usually breed true back into the drow race; Vhaeraun sees this practice inexorable raising drow numbers in surface lands.
I dunno, that doesn't seem any different, to me, then if a half-moon elf mated with a moon elf, the elven race would breed back true, etc....
Yeah, but it specifically mentions other elven races, which implies that any drow/elf pairing is more likely to result in a drow.
Like I said, that's not how I read that since that's really not any different then any other half-breed breeding with a elf. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 17:47:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Demihuman Deities implies that the drow genetics are dominant, but it doesn't flat out state it. From page 38, under the "Day-to-Day Activities" section of Vhaeraun's write-up:
quote:
Contact and marriage with other elven races is encouraged. Half-drow usually breed true back into the drow race; Vhaeraun sees this practice inexorable raising drow numbers in surface lands.
I dunno, that doesn't seem any different, to me, then if a half-moon elf mated with a moon elf, the elven race would breed back true, etc....
Yeah, but it specifically mentions other elven races, which implies that any drow/elf pairing is more likely to result in a drow.
Like I said, that's not how I read that since that's really not any different then any other half-breed breeding with a elf.
But even if you read it to be a half-elf of drow descent breeding with a full-on elf, the fact that the offspring is usually drow implies that drow genetics are dominant. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 22 Nov 2006 17:48:48 |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 17:51:50
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Particularly so as only a half-drow with a full blooded elf still breeds back to a full drow.
Begs the question as to how common these half-drow are with such strong genes :) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 18:02:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Demihuman Deities implies that the drow genetics are dominant, but it doesn't flat out state it. From page 38, under the "Day-to-Day Activities" section of Vhaeraun's write-up:
quote:
Contact and marriage with other elven races is encouraged. Half-drow usually breed true back into the drow race; Vhaeraun sees this practice inexorable raising drow numbers in surface lands.
I dunno, that doesn't seem any different, to me, then if a half-moon elf mated with a moon elf, the elven race would breed back true, etc....
Yeah, but it specifically mentions other elven races, which implies that any drow/elf pairing is more likely to result in a drow.
Like I said, that's not how I read that since that's really not any different then any other half-breed breeding with a elf.
But even if you read it to be a half-elf of drow descent breeding with a full-on elf, the fact that the offspring is usually drow implies that drow genetics are dominant.
Not sure why I have to say this three times, but here we go: That's not how I read it. I read it the same way for all half-elves. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 18:26:42
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[quote} Races of Faerun, page 4 "Whenever parents of different subraces have a child, that child almost always 'takes after' one parent or the other"[/quote]
Appears to be the most canon answer.
As for Drow with other elves I do seem to recall reading that most tended to have Drow children a few fair elf and from time to time a blend (part Drow, part fair) but this might have been a fan interpertaion. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 18:30:51
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| Which is the same answer Ed and the 1e and 2e material has given us since 1987. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 22 Nov 2006 18:31:37 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 19:55:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Not sure why I have to say this three times, but here we go: That's not how I read it. I read it the same way for all half-elves.
Sigh. You said above that you don't know where people get the idea that one race may be dominant in a pairing. I'm trying to point out to you where people may have gotten that idea. Here is a canon source that says if a drow is somewhere in the mix, a drow is the likely response. That's why I am trying to say. I'm not arguing anything else, I'm just responding to the dominant genes part, and only in regards to drow. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 21:31:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Demihuman Deities implies that the drow genetics are dominant, but it doesn't flat out state it. From page 38, under the "Day-to-Day Activities" section of Vhaeraun's write-up:
quote:
Contact and marriage with other elven races is encouraged. Half-drow usually breed true back into the drow race; Vhaeraun sees this practice inexorable raising drow numbers in surface lands.
I hate to come off as an arguer (I'm not try to argue with anyone here), but I also did not read that little blurb as "drow genetics are dominant" so much as "half-drow will usually end up pairing back with drow, resulting in even more surface drow (instead of a bunch of half-drow and few true drow)". It COULD mean drow genetics are dominant, but the wording is unfortunately too vague for me to draw that conclusion. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 22:14:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I hate to come off as an arguer (I'm not try to argue with anyone here), but I also did not read that little blurb as "drow genetics are dominant" so much as "half-drow will usually end up pairing back with drow, resulting in even more surface drow (instead of a bunch of half-drow and few true drow)". It COULD mean drow genetics are dominant, but the wording is unfortunately too vague for me to draw that conclusion.
Thank you, thought it was just me. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 22:16:09
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| Nope. It's a really vague blurb, so it's hard to tell who is right, or if we are all right or none of us are right. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 22:26:23
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| That was what I said originally! I said that the specific passage implies that drow genetics are dominant. I used the word twice. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 23:41:52
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| It's nothing to get upset about. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 00:12:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Demihuman Deities implies that the drow genetics are dominant, but it doesn't flat out state it. From page 38, under the "Day-to-Day Activities" section of Vhaeraun's write-up:
quote:
Contact and marriage with other elven races is encouraged. Half-drow usually breed true back into the drow race; Vhaeraun sees this practice inexorable raising drow numbers in surface lands.
I hate to come off as an arguer (I'm not try to argue with anyone here), but I also did not read that little blurb as "drow genetics are dominant" so much as "half-drow will usually end up pairing back with drow, resulting in even more surface drow (instead of a bunch of half-drow and few true drow)". It COULD mean drow genetics are dominant, but the wording is unfortunately too vague for me to draw that conclusion.
Indeed. That's an interpretation I'd agree with.
All in all, it would appear the passage is left "intentionlly vague", most likely for roleplaying purposes and/or DM use when involving a campaign that includes either significant numbers of half-drow or focuses exclusively on drow activities near or on the surface.
And given the popularity of ALL types of varied drow characters... 'tis not surprising.
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Half-elf-elf
