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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 16:38:39
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Sages,
This may not be the best place to put this, please feel free to move it.
Do you older gamers out there (you know who you are)remember the infamous 60 minutes episode where they linked D & D with suicide, homicide, occultism, satan worship, and I believe hunger in Africa? After viewing this very informative episode my father torched all of my gaming materials... I want to cite this episode as an example in a small paper, do any of you remember when this episode aired? I know I have seen it appear on boards before so I hope you can help me.
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ShadowJack |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4692 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 16:45:21
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| September 15th, 1985 |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1076 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36868 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 17:16:53
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| And for more examples of "D&D is evil!", do a Google search on Jack Chick. He's one of those who happily spews tripe on how roleplaying is linked to more bad things than Pandora. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 17:23:18
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| Thanks very much all! I don't feel evil, do you? |
ShadowJack |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 17:32:06
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| why do you think that many wants to play in Evil campaigns? |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 17:32:13
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Or that group that was against D&D because her son died. The founder of that died in 1997. Dragon ran an article about it.... That's it, Pat Pulling and she ran Bothered Against Dungeons & Dragons.
http://members.tripod.com/~limsk/pulling.htm |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 13 Nov 2006 17:48:48 |
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 17:32:53
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It also helps to go to the escapist www.theescapist.com
He has a lot of info on the past accusations against D&D. Look at the FAQ, advocacy, and resources sections. In the advocacy encyclopedia you will find info on William Dear, Michael Dempsey, James Dallas Egbert III, the Pullings, Thomas Radecki, Sean Sellers, and other famous cases, but those were the big time cases and people involved in the late 70's/early 80's that fueled the hysteria.
they don't have anything that deals with the CBS episode that I can initially see, but it might help having some of that background.
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"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1076 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 17:44:25
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I did show teachers and childcaretakers how to youse D&D in a learning perspective, this was very interesting because manny of the new theories about learning seen in a psychology and sociology way, say that D&D (players) are bether to "socialize", seen through theories such as
Lars Qvortrup, Vygotsky and Marlow.
"socialize" : An understanduíng of how you relate to others and how they relate to You. |
Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571
Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047
Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 18:48:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Sian
why do you think that many wants to play in Evil campaigns?
Because they feel ruled by their narrow dictated lives at school or work and they want an imaginative vehicle to play out fantasies of aggression, freedom and sometimes cruelty. |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 19:12:25
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Sian,
I think many people play evil campaigns because it is different. I never play evil campaigns, personally, it has no fascinaion for me. Many folks also enjoy the challenge of trying out the "evil" perspective. Admittedly it would be a challenge to role-play. Faraer's answer makes an incredible amount of sense, especially in today's world.
Kuje,
Thanks for the info. I ran into those folks when I did my initial web search. Is it me or is everybody looking for someone or something to blame?
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 22:18:41
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
Kuje,
Thanks for the info. I ran into those folks when I did my initial web search. Is it me or is everybody looking for someone or something to blame?
Really, in 20 years things in America haven't changed much. First it was D&D, then it was heavy metal/rock music, and now it's violent video games. COUGH! |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 13 Nov 2006 22:43:44 |
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Romaal
Acolyte
Germany
22 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 22:33:47
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People who belive such stupid things shouldn't be taken to serious. Normally, the don't have they power to influence on our lives.
It's also kind of an American problem, that people think D&D would be linked to Satanism.
In Germany, the majority of the population doesn't even know what roleplaying is. Good for us folks :) |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 22:39:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
Kuje,
Thanks for the info. I ran into those folks when I did my initial web search. Is it me or is everybody looking for someone or something to blame?
Really, in 20 years things haven't changed much. First it was D&D, then it was heavy metal/rock music, and now it's violent video games. COUGH!
I think it started with TV (certainly in Britain is did), but yes, the culture of affluence from the mid-fifties an Britain, and from the late thirties in America, have produced this kind of blame culture. The loss of youth and innocence can be thrown in as part of the broader social shift. But yes, the point you make is very true and still applicable today. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 23:07:05
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Didn't start with TV. Whether you're scapegoating RPGs, rock & roll, jazz, the theatre, magic, the undeserving poor, other races, other races' drugs or culture, women, 'penny dreadfuls'... it's all blaming (fantasies of) other people and what they do for your own problems.quote:
Originally posted by Romaal
In Germany, the majority of the population doesn't even know what roleplaying is. Good for us folks :)
I think the same is true worldwide: a majority of Americans may have heard of D&D, but they couldn't describe how you play. It's no good thing, and it makes RPGs easier to scapegoat as people don't know better. |
Edited by - Faraer on 13 Nov 2006 23:09:14 |
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Romaal
Acolyte
Germany
22 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2006 : 23:09:57
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| By the way, telling tales of the tainted youth isn't a modern thing. Maybe some of you already know the scrbings of Socrates in which he speaks about the bad youth and that the world will fade away and so on. |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2006 : 08:31:23
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| i was sacastic for chirsts sake ... sigh ... |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1076 Posts |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
658 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2006 : 09:35:33
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| In my country one guy killed two people by stabbing them just to get a feel of a game, now he's for 50 years in jail. But its foolish to say that DnD caused this. And then someone started anti DnD campaign in the media for 1 madman that would have done it anyway. Of course in the media there aren't any antiwar campaigns or campaigns against things that really have evil influence on the society. DnD is not evil (even Ravenloft) it's just a nonsentient game, and all kinds of people can play it, even evil madmen |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2006 : 10:43:48
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I know that RPG is a somewhat controversial topic but I never knew about those incidents.
Do I have strange, evil, mad, aggressive and/or destructive thoughts?
Well, yeeeehaaa yes indeed!     Sometimes I do, but they are not routed in my long lasting love for RPGs than rather a reaction of stupid idiots sharing their (to me) certainly strange and mad points of view with others in local/national/worldwide broadcasting television shows. So much for that.
Nevertheless interesting to read. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2006 : 11:06:33
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I do belive that the belief that roleplaying games are evil, is issued by people who have emty lives.... Imagine a person that without knowedge of the game begins to spout nonsence, just so he/she can say 'im doing something constructive to help our socity', and at the same time have something to do..... come on... then you gotta be desperate! And that woman who lost her son is just lashing out, trying to find something to justify the senseless death of her son, and woila there is D&d ...very convinient. Seems to me that our game is a scapegoat for all kinds of ****, and it makes me mad to think that people cant see through all the ********! Its like the saying that guns dont kill people, people kill people. I will now stop my raving, and get back to sensible matters..... such as writing another post. =)
Mod Edit: Please watch your language. 
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Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Edited by - The Sage on 14 Nov 2006 12:08:11 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2006 : 12:38:03
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| Sure sure, my fuse burned a litte quick there! ;) |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2006 : 17:30:10
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okay, a few more.
I saw Michael Stackpole talk at a recent convention here, and he said quite a lot of things, most of which I don't remember well enough to post with any accuracy. One thing that stuck out in my mind was that in the big cases , Pulling and Egbert, the sons had a lot of emotional problems that existed outside the game. In fact, the accusations against D&D were started by parents wanting to blame something else, not themselves.
Egbert, if I recall correctly, was homosexual in a time it was not accepted at all, and he had made contact with the local "underground" gay society at the college he was going to. He was a genius, in that he was going to college at the age of 16 (I think, I know he was really young), away from home, didn't know anyone, and was a loner to begin with. So when he disappeared into the steam tunnels to commit suicide, and then later showed up at a professor's house (who was also gay), the family did not want to acknowledge this and jumped on the anti-D&D campaign.
Some links:
The Pulling Report by Michael Stackpole http://www.rpgstudies.net/stackpole/pulling_report.html
Interview with Michael Stackpole
http://pc.gamespy.com/articles/539/539635p1.html |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1076 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2006 : 17:50:28
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It´s ok Zimme... we have all bin there......... lol
Best advice : wright on another topic.
Just to end my opinion on this topic : I think that roleplaying games, are one of the best ways of learn and understand.. One of the bigest (newest) theories (sociology)-"quote : In the future comunity its impotent to know ho you are, ho you engage, this can be learnd thrug roleplaying. (The 3 ways reflektion / meaning / realtion " - This is said in the book. The learning comunity by Lars Qvortrup.
Sorry about all this, maby it´s off topic, but i just want to say that new psychology and sociology theories say that roleplaying isnt nessasary a bad thing. |
Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571
Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047
Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1 |
Edited by - Victor_ograygor on 14 Nov 2006 17:50:52 |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2006 : 11:58:25
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| you are right, it develops the creative and interactional skills, plus for us who dont have english as a native language it develops just that. |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1076 Posts |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 21:11:32
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| ha ha lol, good one. that canadian one really cracked me up :P |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 22:05:40
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| I wrote a cover article for the January 2004 issue of the Silven Trumpeter called BAFOON (Bothered About Fundamentalists Offering Opinionated Nonsense). The title is an allusion to MADD (Mothers Against Dungeons & Dragons). These groups tended to use all sorts of ridiculous acronyms. Anyway, you can download it at http://www.silven.com/ezine/. It's on page 21 and it discusses the history of the problem and some of my thoughts. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
Edited by - EytanBernstein on 23 Nov 2006 22:06:06 |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2006 : 12:34:35
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| Thanks Victor and Eytan, both of your submissions were great! |
ShadowJack |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1076 Posts |
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Need help for Graduate assignment...
