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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 16:12:52
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| OR revert to the old cosmology...personally I will always use the great wheel. I like continuity, I can handle the Thunder Blessing and all that, hell I even ignore the whole drow change, the Windwalker incident never happened...etc etc |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 16:17:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
OR revert to the old cosmology...personally I will always use the great wheel. I like continuity, I can handle the Thunder Blessing and all that, hell I even ignore the whole drow change, the Windwalker incident never happened...etc etc
so will I..but in a perfect world the canon would change back to the Great Wheel...but I doubt that will vere happen 
at least it gives us a topic to gripe about  |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 16:38:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Hmm... so if spelljamming was there, and it was since Evermeet showed that the flying navy was in fact based on spelljammer "technology", then the crystal spheres had to exist. And it was possible to travel from G(reyhawk) to T(oril). If the worlds aren't connected any more...where did 'em jammers fly? Through the plane of shadows?
We really don't know if the crystal spheres exist. There's no point to having them any more since each Prime Material is infinite unlike in 2e when you had 1 infinite Prime that had the spheres within it.
And again, we really don't have any lore on how jammers, if they even reach the other Primes, do so.
There is of course the possibility of one Prime with many Crystal spheres in it. And that's about as far as I've thought about it. Curse these stupid working-hours turning my brain to porridge!
That's possible except we know that there's FR's Prime, Greyhawk's Prime, Dlance's Prime, Eberron's Prime and all of them are seperate and different from each other. What you stated sounds like how it was in 2e. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 18:20:58
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| Maybe each "cosmos" has its own version of Oerth, Krynn and whathaveyou...then again it would be kind of pointless to introduce various "universes" |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 18:24:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Maybe each "cosmos" has its own version of Oerth, Krynn and whathaveyou...then again it would be kind of pointless to introduce various "universes"
 personally, I never really likes the crystal sphere/phlog explaination in spelljammer of the Prime eithor...I never saw why it couln't have been just on plane/dimension...different solar systems...
and planes with totally alien "primary laws of physics", such as the Far Realm, were alternate Prime Material planes (the planes often referred to in 1E) |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 19:00:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Kalin Agrivar
personally, I never really likes the crystal sphere/phlog explaination in spelljammer of the Prime eithor...I never saw why it couln't have been just on plane/dimension...different solar systems...
It was mainly because of Krynn, I think. With Krynn, you had constellations disappearing whenever the deities left the heavens. Having multiple stars popping in and out would create all sorts of issues if everything wasn't somehow isolated from everything else. Distance wouldn't have worked, because to get everything far enough apart to avoid issues like this would have involved literally astronomical distances, measured in light years, at a minimum.
Putting every solar system in its own crystal sphere neatly dodged the issue.
It also allowed them to explain other things, like why smoke powder didn't work on Oerth (though it does work elsewhere in Greyspace), or why you couldn't spelljam to Athas (the sphere is sealed). |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 19:05:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kalin Agrivar
personally, I never really likes the crystal sphere/phlog explaination in spelljammer of the Prime eithor...I never saw why it couln't have been just on plane/dimension...different solar systems...
It was mainly because of Krynn, I think. With Krynn, you had constellations disappearing whenever the deities left the heavens. Having multiple stars popping in and out would create all sorts of issues if everything wasn't somehow isolated from everything else. Distance wouldn't have worked, because to get everything far enough apart to avoid issues like this would have involved literally astronomical distances, measured in light years, at a minimum.
Putting every solar system in its own crystal sphere neatly dodged the issue.
It also allowed them to explain other things, like why smoke powder didn't work on Oerth (though it does work elsewhere in Greyspace), or why you couldn't spelljam to Athas (the sphere is sealed).
All good points...
it was always difficult to explain the phlog to players...one player made the point that the phlog is really the Prime and the spheres were the sandboxes of the gods, plopped into the Prime for their amusement  |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 19:18:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
That sounds like the marbles in MIB
it does, doesn't it? |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 01:26:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It also allowed them to explain other things, like why smoke powder didn't work on Oerth (though it does work elsewhere in Greyspace), or why you couldn't spelljam to Athas (the sphere is sealed).
The crystal sphere isn't completely sealed, though the existence of The Gray does make both planar and spelljamming travel to Athas extremely difficult.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 09:55:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
OR revert to the old cosmology...personally I will always use the great wheel. I like continuity, I can handle the Thunder Blessing and all that, hell I even ignore the whole drow change, the Windwalker incident never happened...etc etc
Hm ... no insult intended, but if you have no intention to change some House Rules while on the other hand trying to promote your view, why asking for other opinions? 
Re the drow and "Windwalker" ... you noted that this was an in-novel explanation by a character for herself rather than canon lore? People tend to ignore the fact that drow were always able to walk the surface without equipment that falls apart, if that equipment was of a non-faerzress created nature. Every drow mage / cleric was able to create normal magical armor too which was never listed as being vulnerable to sunlight. Underdark has since made it clear which sort of drow equipment fell apart and which does not.
As for drow abilities and SR ... the AD&D explanation - as much fun it was to watch - never had any decent explanation about the why's. No creature lost its SR because of some environmental change unless it could not survive in sunlight like, say vampires and derro. So, going back to old rulings and pseudo-explanations is surely not a way to tackle the issue, especially if better explanations are at hand. Personal reservations to say Drizzt or Liriel won't help either.
Re Moander, even F&A says he is utterly destroyed, despite some remnants hanging about in the Astral or that Horned Crown. Lolth sits neatly in his chair and anyone trying to resurrect him have to deal with her first. Unless there will be another ultra-unnecessary strange twist in FR logics, there will be no Orcus-like return for him to Realmspace. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 26 Oct 2006 11:06:16 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 11:15:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Re Moander, even F&A says he is utterly destroyed, despite some remnants hanging about in the Astral or that Horned Crown. Lolth sits neatly in his chair and anyone trying to resurrect him have to deal with her first. Unless there will be another ultra-unnecessary strange twist in FR logics, there will be no Orcus-like return for him to Realmspace.
Newer lore trumps older lore. Power of Faerûn speaks of the bit of Old Moldy trapped in Tsornyl, and describes him as still wanting another go at it... As it's been said, death is not a career-ending injury in the Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 12:27:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Hmm... so if spelljamming was there, and it was since Evermeet showed that the flying navy was in fact based on spelljammer "technology", then the crystal spheres had to exist. And it was possible to travel from G(reyhawk) to T(oril). If the worlds aren't connected any more...where did 'em jammers fly? Through the plane of shadows?
We really don't know if the crystal spheres exist. There's no point to having them any more since each Prime Material is infinite unlike in 2e when you had 1 infinite Prime that had the spheres within it.
And again, we really don't have any lore on how jammers, if they even reach the other Primes, do so.
There is of course the possibility of one Prime with many Crystal spheres in it. And that's about as far as I've thought about it. Curse these stupid working-hours turning my brain to porridge!
That's possible except we know that there's FR's Prime, Greyhawk's Prime, Dlance's Prime, Eberron's Prime and all of them are seperate and different from each other. What you stated sounds like how it was in 2e. :)
Well, I've never been fond of the various settings being connected - I'd rather use just one of them (guess which) and develop the worlds of the other spheres on my own. Another GRRR for my computer breaking down with all the stuff about the world I've been working on for six months on it. Pity me! |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 14:52:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Re Moander, even F&A says he is utterly destroyed, despite some remnants hanging about in the Astral or that Horned Crown. Lolth sits neatly in his chair and anyone trying to resurrect him have to deal with her first. Unless there will be another ultra-unnecessary strange twist in FR logics, there will be no Orcus-like return for him to Realmspace.
Newer lore trumps older lore. Power of Faerûn speaks of the bit of Old Moldy trapped in Tsornyl, and describes him as still wanting another go at it... As it's been said, death is not a career-ending injury in the Realms.
As I said, sometimes "death" should be just that. While in other instances, e.g. Bhaal or Bane or even Aupenser, a return is a possibility, here we have a deity (and a active and powerful one at that) taking up most of what Moander stood for. The rest lies in the hand of Finder. Now, from my understanding of this, any Moanderite sending prayers etc. to him, he is not actually targetting "Moldy", but either Lolth or Finder. At least they will listen in one way or another. There might (and that is a capital MIGHT) be a follower of Moander about who knows the whole truth and proclaims that he wants to resurrect the true Moander ... but how? I would even doubt that the Lost Empires feat (Servant of the Fallen) will be of much use, as in "Moldy's" case, any activity of such a heretic will not go unnoticed by either of the other two deities involved.
He should stay where he is, have his stout-herated followers draw power from the crown if need be (you see, here his divine essence is drawn upon ... but it remains to be seen whether the "drawer" actually notices a difference between this and spell he receives from Lolth), while Finder and Lolth act on his "behalf" when his name is invoked. Has much more flair than any stand-up chap like Orcus. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 15:00:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
OR revert to the old cosmology...personally I will always use the great wheel. I like continuity, I can handle the Thunder Blessing and all that, hell I even ignore the whole drow change, the Windwalker incident never happened...etc etc
Hm ... no insult intended, but if you have no intention to change some House Rules while on the other hand trying to promote your view, why asking for other opinions?
Re the drow and "Windwalker" ... you noted that this was an in-novel explanation by a character for herself rather than canon lore? People tend to ignore the fact that drow were always able to walk the surface without equipment that falls apart, if that equipment was of a non-faerzress created nature. Every drow mage / cleric was able to create normal magical armor too which was never listed as being vulnerable to sunlight. Underdark has since made it clear which sort of drow equipment fell apart and which does not.
As for drow abilities and SR ... the AD&D explanation - as much fun it was to watch - never had any decent explanation about the why's. No creature lost its SR because of some environmental change unless it could not survive in sunlight like, say vampires and derro. So, going back to old rulings and pseudo-explanations is surely not a way to tackle the issue, especially if better explanations are at hand. Personal reservations to say Drizzt or Liriel won't help either.
Re Moander, even F&A says he is utterly destroyed, despite some remnants hanging about in the Astral or that Horned Crown. Lolth sits neatly in his chair and anyone trying to resurrect him have to deal with her first. Unless there will be another ultra-unnecessary strange twist in FR logics, there will be no Orcus-like return for him to Realmspace.
None taken. I AM asking for opinions because I try to wrap my head around the problem, intellectually. If I don't like something from the sourcebooks it goes.
The reason why I keep the drow-sunlight-problem, not for the items necessarily but for SR etc, is continuity. I admit to not liking the change, not from the gamedesigner's point of view, that change is valid, but I think it takes away some of the "magic" I felt was inherent in the drow issue. I started my Realms campaign with 2nd edition and when I took the characters into 3.x I discussed things with the player of the drow, she agreed that this "sudden" change was kinda silly because it stole away the "magic".
To me the drow's loss of ability when turning their back from the Underdark seems a very profound sacrifice and as such I like it, a lot.
As for Windwalker, I am/was aware of it, but that, so far, is the only lore explanation we do have. Since I dislike the change, as a consequence the lore of the novel is ignored.
What better explanations? |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 15:03:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
To me the drow's loss of ability when turning their back from the Underdark seems a very profound sacrifice and as such I like it, a lot.
exactly...it is the best material/physical reprecussion there is one the effects of the Descent and what the dark elves lost due to their evil ways...that the sun and the "living world" of the surface rejects the drow...and the dark power they have gained in the Underdark
like there was a mythal or something holding them back *hint hint, nudge nudge* |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
Edited by - Kalin Agrivar on 26 Oct 2006 15:06:38 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 15:17:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Re Moander, even F&A says he is utterly destroyed, despite some remnants hanging about in the Astral or that Horned Crown. Lolth sits neatly in his chair and anyone trying to resurrect him have to deal with her first. Unless there will be another ultra-unnecessary strange twist in FR logics, there will be no Orcus-like return for him to Realmspace.
Newer lore trumps older lore. Power of Faerûn speaks of the bit of Old Moldy trapped in Tsornyl, and describes him as still wanting another go at it... As it's been said, death is not a career-ending injury in the Realms.
As I said, sometimes "death" should be just that. While in other instances, e.g. Bhaal or Bane or even Aupenser, a return is a possibility, here we have a deity (and a active and powerful one at that) taking up most of what Moander stood for. The rest lies in the hand of Finder. Now, from my understanding of this, any Moanderite sending prayers etc. to him, he is not actually targetting "Moldy", but either Lolth or Finder. At least they will listen in one way or another. There might (and that is a capital MIGHT) be a follower of Moander about who knows the whole truth and proclaims that he wants to resurrect the true Moander ... but how? I would even doubt that the Lost Empires feat (Servant of the Fallen) will be of much use, as in "Moldy's" case, any activity of such a heretic will not go unnoticed by either of the other two deities involved.
He should stay where he is, have his stout-herated followers draw power from the crown if need be (you see, here his divine essence is drawn upon ... but it remains to be seen whether the "drawer" actually notices a difference between this and spell he receives from Lolth), while Finder and Lolth act on his "behalf" when his name is invoked. Has much more flair than any stand-up chap like Orcus.
I don't want to see him come back, either, but the possibility officially exists.
BTW, you seem to be confusing him and Myrkul. Myrkul is the former deity who is now happy to be in the Crown of Horns. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 15:32:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Did Orcus ever die?
*dives for cover*
yes..and was reborn...it is a huge 2E Planescape storyline that heavily conflicts with 1E-3E Realms canon...even moreso after the Cosmology ret-con... |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 15:36:13
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Never was into Planescape much... and now to read up on all that stuff...
I ran Ravenloft, DragonLance...and now run the Realms...plus several years of running excessive D6 Star Wars campaigns... no time for Planescape...unfortunately. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 15:37:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
BTW, you seem to be confusing him and Myrkul. Myrkul is the former deity who is now happy to be in the Crown of Horns.
Sorry for getting carried away with rot and horns and deities beginning with "M" and all that.
Regarding the drow and their magic etc.. In an on-going session, that might be a problem. Within the setting there is no on-going session though. There wasn't consistency before with the drow abilities, just remember that the one and only Drizzt casts darkness to his heart's content years after he has left the Underdark. It's not like drow are no longer bothered by sunlight, for e.g. "that feat" cannot be taken by Underdark drow. In any case, drow have always streamed back to the surface and fought during the nighttime, thus, their equipment (of whatever making) was not harmed. And while we are at it, the "curse" of the Descent was not the logical reason for the vulnerability of equipment or the drow's powers (or so we were lead to believe) it was the Underdark radiation. Even if not, I find it hard to believe that an unproven "curse" might be a better explanation than faerzress, even though much more Underdark creatures would benefit from it. The point here is, drow were recreated as a playable race. Unlogical stuff like vanishing abilities (name me another creature that suffers somesuch) has been binned while criteria have been introduced to tell us what is possible or not. Loss of "magic"? In what way? 99% of all drow will remain as they are, coming up from below at night and having abilities other folks dream off. They spread terror and retreat. As they have done before. If one needs more "magic", turn 80% of their fighters into hexblades, have warlocks running about too. That'll give you some magic back ...
Consistency for consistency's sake is not always a good option, especially if the consistency "walks on thin ice".
Mace Hammerhand.:
quote:
Did Orcus ever die?
Twice actually. And he returned out of no-where once more, "chased" Kiaransalee out of his realm (don't ask about the if's and but's and all), and has even made it back to the Realms. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 26 Oct 2006 15:42:34 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 15:42:26
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Darkness was one of the spell-like abilities drwos retained, check the Complete Book of Elves for AD&D, same goes for Faery Fire.
A drow PC in AD&D did NOT retain his magic resistance, they became weaker. Check old character stats for Drizzt, he didn't have MR anymore |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 15:42:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Never was into Planescape much... and now to read up on all that stuff...
I ran Ravenloft, DragonLance...and now run the Realms...plus several years of running excessive D6 Star Wars campaigns... no time for Planescape...unfortunately.
** Huge Camouflaged Spoilers **
basically Kiaranslee (sp?) kills Orcus for a slight, hides the Wand of Orcus in the deepest hole in Pandemonium and takes over his realm..
but Orcus rises from the grave as the demi-god Tenebrous (sp?) who then murders Primus (modron god) and initiates a Modron March to find his wand so he can ressurect himself...he gets clues of it's location and then murders about 3-4 more gods (including that illithid one), finds his wand, ressurects himself, and then kicks out Kiaranslee...becoming even more powerful and more pro-active in the end
the main conflict is in the Bloodstone series is Orcus's defeat and the destruction of the Wand by Gareth Dragonsbane |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 15:44:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Darkness was one of the spell-like abilities drwos retained, check the Complete Book of Elves for AD&D, same goes for Faery Fire.
A drow PC in AD&D did NOT retain his magic resistance, they became weaker. Check old character stats for Drizzt, he didn't have MR anymore
I check the more important (FR) and one of the last canon books on drow in AD&D, namely Demihuman Deities' appendix relating to drow and drow priests, and especially spell-like abilities.
BTW, Drizzt's last stats in AD&D were out in The Accursed Tower and - consistency? - he retains half of the spell-like abilities he should not have. (BTW, you do note that your AD&D drow player should have had - by canon - the spells available? And one wonders, of course, why only Magic Resistance would fall foul of the surface, but not the SLAs ... ) |
Edited by - Zanan on 26 Oct 2006 15:49:11 |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 15:50:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Darkness was one of the spell-like abilities drwos retained, check the Complete Book of Elves for AD&D, same goes for Faery Fire.
A drow PC in AD&D did NOT retain his magic resistance, they became weaker. Check old character stats for Drizzt, he didn't have MR anymore
I check the more important (FR) and one of the last canon books on drow in AD&D, namely Demihuman Deities' appendix relating to drow and drow priests, and especially spell-like abilities.
I think orginally in the 1E Unearthed Arcana and then in Drow of the Underdark, a drow on the surface amde saving throws per week and in the end lost all their powers (inniate abilitiers, magic resistance, etc.) while keeping all their penalities (i.e. sunlight)
I think RAS's Drizzit in Crystal Shard broke that rule for literary purposes  |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 15:53:47
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Which does not deal with surface drow.
But oh...wait...Hall of Heroes is a canon book, however old it may be... Drizzt didn't have any MR then, all of the elf characters in AD&D 2nd were basically derived from Complete Book of Elves...and it states that drow PCs do loose their abilities once on the surface for a longer time. If they want to regain these abilities they have to stay in the Underdark for a month per day upside or some such thing. Forgive my forgetfulness of not taking the book with me to work, will do so in the future. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 15:55:49
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| BUT this thing is about the planes and Lolth...and I guess there won't be any clear solution... oh well |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 16:27:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
BUT this thing is about the planes and Lolth...and I guess there won't be any clear solution... oh well
... and we ought to remember that the more up-to-date a sourcebook is, the more value it has for a canonic debate. Complete Elven HB was published in 1994, Demihuman Deities in 1998, The Accursed Tower in 1999. And only the latter two are canon sources for the Realms. Thus, there is no need to dig up Unearthed Arcana or the like , or cite sourcebooks that have been over-ruled. DD specificly says something about drow pc's as well. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2006 : 16:49:22
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Mace,
If you want info on the return of Orcus see The Great Modron March, Dead Gods, Demihuman Deities, Book of Vile Darkness, 3e's Manual of the Planes, Tome of Magic, and FC1 (obviously). As much as some posters will claim his return came out of no where, this isn't true. His return is perfectly detailed and explained. His return really doesn't conflict with 3e material (and 3e FR material makes references to it via the BOVD and MoTP).
He has a lot of history in the eastern parts of Faerun, around Damara/Narfell/Impiltar (obviously). Races of Faerun, in the Damara entry, has a few dates and then Champions of Ruin has even more details and that book has material on some of the fiends and followers that exist in the east realms of Faerun. Of course, Unapproachable East has one of his clerics. Faiths & Pantheons shows his planar realm/domains/etc. The Player's Guide shows his planar layer in the Abyss section. Dragons of Faerun has info as well.
However, I don't want to have this Orcus debate for the second damn time. We just had this debate two months ago, before Gencon. And that is the only warning that I'm giving in this thread about that topic and if that debate is started up again in this thread then this thread will be locked. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 26 Oct 2006 18:00:49 |
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Lolth's demonweb pit & FC1
